ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) (09/02/88)
In article <4957@netnews.upenn.edu> ranjit@eniac.seas.upenn.edu.UUCP (Ranjit Bhatnagar) writes: >I'm surprised no one has scoffed at me for using interlace mode >and then making every dot two pixels high. Go ahead and scoff - >I had my reasons... :-) > I didn't scoff, but I scratched my head for a bit.... I'd like to thank you for posting that program because it uncovered some flakey hardware in my system. When I recompiled it to use my '020/'881, it started going bonkers. Which brings me to the reason I ported this over to c.s.a.t: I'd like to bounce off you people what I think is wrong with my setup. I have an ASDG Mr. C with 2M of RAM in it, and a Ronin Hurricane card 14.foo MHz '020, 16 MHz '881. When the ASDG cage is disconnected, everything runs great; 'Hopalong', as well as all other programs, run without incident. When I plug in the cage, vanilla programs run fine. However, programs utilizing the '881 are prone to random crashes, typically exception code 4 (illegal instruction), 11 (line F emulator), and to a lesser extent 10 (line A emulator), as well as one instance of 14 (format error). Precisely when these crashes occur is random. I suspect this is due to a combination of the kickstart tower PAL's, and a flakey '881. If it were just the PAL's, then one would expect ordinary code running on the '020 to bomb randomly as well (which it once did before I had the kickstart tower PAL's grounded). If, on the other hand, it were just the '881, then one would expect the random crashes to persist without the cage attached. Ergo: It's both the PAL's and the '881 that need looking at. Is my theory correct? Is it close? Am I from Neptune on this one? _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape INET: well!ewhac@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU \_ -_ Recumbent Bikes: UUCP: pacbell > !{well,unicom}!ewhac O----^o The Only Way To Fly. hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack") "Work FOR? I don't work FOR anybody! I'm just having fun." -- The Doctor
grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (09/03/88)
In article <7004@well.UUCP> ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes: > > Which brings me to the reason I ported this over to c.s.a.t: I'd > like to bounce off you people what I think is wrong with my setup. I have > an ASDG Mr. C with 2M of RAM in it, and a Ronin Hurricane card 14.foo MHz > '020, 16 MHz '881. > > When the ASDG cage is disconnected, everything runs great; > 'Hopalong', as well as all other programs, run without incident. When I > plug in the cage, vanilla programs run fine. However, programs utilizing > the '881 are prone to random crashes, typically exception code 4 (illegal > instruction), 11 (line F emulator), and to a lesser extent 10 (line A > emulator), as well as one instance of 14 (format error). Precisely when > these crashes occur is random. > > I suspect this is due to a combination of the kickstart tower PAL's, > and a flakey '881. If it were just the PAL's, then one would expect ordinary > code running on the '020 to bomb randomly as well (which it once did before > I had the kickstart tower PAL's grounded). If, on the other hand, it were > just the '881, then one would expect the random crashes to persist without > the cage attached. Ergo: It's both the PAL's and the '881 that need > looking at. Well, it's hard to tell without looking at the hardware involved, but I suspect that the Hurricane card isn't doing quite enough kludgery to make everything work in your expanded configuration. The Amiga hardware generally doesn't decode the FC (function code) lines emitted by the processor - it just sees a single flat 16Mbyte address space. With a 68020 various function codes are emitted during the coprocessor interface protocol that *do not* correspond to normal external memory cycles. This can cause a conflict if a memory card reponds or bus buffers are enabled. The general rule is that the 68020 adapter logic must gate the address strobe signal so that only "memory" and "interrupt acknowledge" cycles are visble to the Amiga and expansion bus. > Is my theory correct? Is it close? Am I from Neptune on this one? no, maybe, perhaps... -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {uunet|ihnp4|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@uunet.uu.net Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
thad@cup.portal.com (09/03/88)
Leo, One thing I immediately noticed when I replaced my CSA setup with the Hurricane is that numerous parts (e.g. connector, capacitors, etc.) on the Hurricane CPU and RAM boards are HIGHER than the plane of the 5 support posts (of the A1000). Thus, when you tighten down the RFI shield, bizarre forces and torque are applied to the Hurricane setup. SOME parts on the Hurricane (like the RAM's jumpers) "could" actually make intermittent contact with the underside of the RFI shield causing one's system to emit vulgar noises while flashing bright blue, green and yellow. Thus, I've pulled the RFI shield and have been carefully using an Adel nibbling tool to remove metal in the area above the Hurricane cards; to this modified RFI shield I intend welding a flat piece of metal that'll be in the same plane at the top of the power supply and the internal disk drive. Also, you "could" be experiencing intermittent shorting to the WCS daughterboard (even if you place plastic spacing sheets between the WCS and the Hurricane. What I discovered to be ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL was to trim *ALL* the leads on the "topside" (solder side) of the WCS and on the bottom (solder side) of the Hurricane since some of the leads of the IC sockets and other components WILL pierce insulation. If you're coming to the FAUG meeting Sept.6 and don't mind waiting until after dinner (~1AM), you're welcome to see my setup; I'm 4 miles further south than the FAUG meeting place (and adjacent to I-280). Thad Floryan [thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ...!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad]
ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) (09/05/88)
In article <8712@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com writes: >[ ... ] when you tighten down the RFI shield, bizarre >forces and torque are applied to the Hurricane setup. SOME parts on the >Hurricane (like the RAM's jumpers) "could" actually make intermittent >contact with the underside of the RFI shield causing one's system to emit >vulgar noises while flashing bright blue, green and yellow. > Nope. The problems persist with the cover completely removed. >Also, you "could" be experiencing intermittent shorting to the WCS >daughterboard [ ... ] Well, after spending 3+ hours at Ronin's offices with my setup, we came to the following determination: The system will usually fail when you attempt to run '881 opcodes out of the ASDG RAM card when it's warm. (Standing on my head had no effect.) They were unable to trace the cause of the bad interaction. Both the '020 and the '881 were swapped, and a PAL on the Ronin card was replaced. It still frotzes out. We did not try swapping the whole Ronin board. I figure it will either cost me $5 or $1500 to fix this. Either I can put a muffin fan inside the ASDG cage to keep it cool enough to prevent failure; or I'll have to buy 2M worth of Ronin's 32-bit memory, or an A2000 and a 2000-version Ronin card (since this sort of weird interaction doesn't happen in a 2000). I'm hoping the fan works. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape INET: well!ewhac@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU \_ -_ Recumbent Bikes: UUCP: pacbell > !{well,unicom}!ewhac O----^o The Only Way To Fly. hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack") "Work FOR? I don't work FOR anybody! I'm just having fun." -- The Doctor
kevin@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (Kevin Clague) (09/09/88)
> > I'd like to thank you for posting that program because it uncovered >some flakey hardware in my system. When I recompiled it to use my >'020/'881, it started going bonkers. > > Which brings me to the reason I ported this over to c.s.a.t: I'd >like to bounce off you people what I think is wrong with my setup. I have >an ASDG Mr. C with 2M of RAM in it, and a Ronin Hurricane card 14.foo MHz >'020, 16 MHz '881. > > When the ASDG cage is disconnected, everything runs great; >'Hopalong', as well as all other programs, run without incident. When I >plug in the cage, vanilla programs run fine. However, programs utilizing >the '881 are prone to random crashes, typically exception code 4 (illegal >instruction), 11 (line F emulator), and to a lesser extent 10 (line A >emulator), as well as one instance of 14 (format error). Precisely when >these crashes occur is random. Sorry to hear you are having random problems, but you had better luck than I did. Months ago I bought a Ronin board to put in my 1000 with a Mini-Rack C and a two meg card. I tried and tried and tried and could never even get the d*mn thing to boot. I contacted Ronin, and they pointed fingers at ASDG. I called ASDG and they pointed fingers at Ronin. I took the entire setup to Ronin twice, and they could never tell me what was wrong, and in the process they lost my keyboard and cord, and my power cord. They also busted the power connector on the back of my mini-rack. I was not impressed with their engineering or the care that they used with my computer. Although I try to give them credit for trying to look at the problem, I was not at all impressed, and will never buy anything from Ronin again (s/w or hardware). I installed the ground fix and the CSA PALs, as I'm sure Leo did. No luck. So I choose two megs of RAM over the '020/881 :-(. I do recommend putting an insulator between the Ronin board and the daughterboard. The boards hang too close together for my taste. If you every figure out what is wrong with your setup Leo, I'd be very interested in finding out. kev -- UUCP: kevin@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com or: {sun,decwrl,hplabs,pyramid,seismo,oliveb}!amdahl!kevin DDD: 408-737-5481 USPS: Amdahl Corp. M/S 249, 1250 E. Arques Av, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 [ Any thoughts or opinions which may or may not have been expressed ] [ herein are my own. They are not necessarily those of my employer. ]
eric@hector.UUCP (Eric Lavitsky) (09/10/88)
In article <4644@cbmvax.UUCP> grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) writes: >In article <7004@well.UUCP> ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) writes: >> (Leo describes his difficulties with his '020/A1000/2M combo) > >Well, it's hard to tell without looking at the hardware involved, but >I suspect that the Hurricane card isn't doing quite enough kludgery >to make everything work in your expanded configuration. > >The Amiga hardware generally doesn't decode the FC (function code) lines >emitted by the processor - it just sees a single flat 16Mbyte address >space. With a 68020 various function codes are emitted during the >coprocessor interface protocol that *do not* correspond to normal >external memory cycles. This can cause a conflict if a memory card >reponds or bus buffers are enabled. Well, none of the ASDG products listen to function codes, so it must have something to do with buffering on the bus? This is certainly not the first time I've heard of problems with the Ronin board not working correctly with other expansion products. Has anyone had luck getting it working with expansion memory on an A1000 ??? >George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {uunet|ihnp4|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr -Eric ARPA: eric@topaz.rutgers.edu or eric@ulysses.att.com UUCP: {att,ucbvax}!ulysses!eric or {wherever!}rutgers!topaz!eric SNAIL: 34 Maplehurst Ln, Piscataway, NJ 08854 "To err is human; To really f*ck up requires the root password."
ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) (09/10/88)
[ They're coming to take me away, ha haaa!! ]
Well, the $5 solution worked, except that it turned out to cost
about $30. I went down to Radio Shaft and picked up a muffin fan, grabbed
some mounting hadrware, took it home, drilled holes in my ASDG Mr. C,
mounted the fan, and patched it into the power circuit.
I fired up the system and ran Hopalong again, and left for the FAUG
meeting. When I returned, it was still running. So I guess the fan cured
the thermal problem.
There's just one small side-effect....
"WHIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR................!!!"
It's louder than a 2000's fan. Ack.
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape INET: well!ewhac@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU
\_ -_ Recumbent Bikes: UUCP: pacbell > !{well,unicom}!ewhac
O----^o The Only Way To Fly. hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack")
"Work FOR? I don't work FOR anybody! I'm just having fun." -- The Doctorthad@cup.portal.com (09/12/88)
Leo, Without wishing to insult anyone, I presume the 68020 and the 68881 *ARE* the 16MHz parts; if not, ... What "revision" of the A1000 mother-/daughter-boards are installed in your system? Did anyone measure the "+5VDC" with the Hurricane installed? Reason I ask is that ALL the external devices on my system (except the A1300 GenLock) are powered from an external source; this includes the ComSpec AX2000, the Supra 4x4, the Escort 2, and both external A1010 floppy drives. I have the Hurricane and 4MB of their RAM installed and all is OK. Maybe you need some Cramolin (I'm *NOT* joking).
blgardne@esunix.UUCP (Blaine Gardner) (09/16/88)
From article <7067@well.UUCP>, by ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab): > [ They're coming to take me away, ha haaa!! ] > > Well, the $5 solution worked, except that it turned out to cost > about $30. I went down to Radio Shaft and picked up a muffin fan, grabbed > There's just one small side-effect.... > "WHIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR................!!!" > > It's louder than a 2000's fan. Ack. Leo, the best fan source I've found yet is surplus A1000 power supplies. They can be had for $15-25, and they come with the quietest fan I've never heard. :-) I pulled the fan from my 2000's power supply, and mounted a 1000 fan on the outside of the case (right bolt pattern, but far too thick to go inside). You do have to put a load resistor on the terminals that provide +12V to the stock fan, and you've now got one more AC line cord to mess with, but I've got silence at last! Anyone wanna buy an A2000 fan, or an A1000 power supply without a fan? -- Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland 580 Arapeen Drive, SLC, Utah 84108 UUCP Addresses: {ucbvax,allegra,decvax}!decwrl!esunix!blgardne utah-cs!esunix!blgardne usna!esunix!blgardne "Nobody will ever need more than 64K." "Nobody needs multitasking on a PC."