cmcmanis%pepper@Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (10/11/88)
In article <5380001@otter.hple.hp.com> (Lee Carter) writes: > Okay, okay, I give up! Does anyone have any information on when (if > ever) the video toaster is going to be released. I saw blurb about this > device almost a year ago and thought "Great!! sounds just what I need!" > So, can anybody help with the latest rumours about price, release date, > etc. Next year maybe. NewTek made mistake #7 in the computer industry. For those of you who are would-be entrepreneurs note this lesson now and don't make yourself a victim of it. Simply stated, mistake #7 is : "Setting price and/or price-expectations before a product is in production." A lot of small companies are anxious to get a product out the door as soon as possible. They are also eager to build up "presales" publicity to ensure both acceptance and quantiy buying of their product. The mistake they make is when the product is *almost* done, by saying something like "It will cost less than `n' dollars!" or "For about the price of a <insert well known thing> you will be able to buy this.", or the sin of all sins "It will cost $n." What happens to these companies is that they get to the production stage and find that if they sell their new product at the "promised" price they are either not going to make any money or even lose money. So now they are in a double bind, they can either a) Not release the product and eat their losses now, or b) Release the product at the higher price and make a lot of people mad because they feel mislead. Or in the case of NewTek who is suffering from the cost of DRAMs, delay the product and hope that the price of RAM will come down to the levels they were when they announced the price. It isn't a nice situation for anyone to be in. But now that you know the risks, maybe you can keep it from happening to you. --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@sun.com These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you.
jca@homxc.UUCP (J.ANTROSIGLIO) (10/11/88)
In article <5380001@otter.hple.hp.com>, ljc@otter.hple.hp.com (Lee Carter) writes: > Does anyone have any information on when (if ever) the video toaster is > going to be released. I saw blurb about this device almost a year ago and > thought "Great!! sounds just what I need!" > So, can anybody help with the latest rumours about price, release date, etc. > Thanks. > Lee Carter. In the lastest Issue of AmigaWorld a comment was made that ram prices are what's holding up the release of video toaster. If I'm not mistaken the video toaster was suppose to be in the 800.00 price range. Given todays ram prices it would be hard to meet this target price. According to AmigaWorld thats why the video toaster hasn't been released yet. They also commented that it should be released sometime between October and December. -- John C. Antrosiglio AT&T Bell Laboratories Crawford Corner Road Holmdel, New Jersey 07733 att!{homxc|hotlf|hotld}!jca
wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew) (10/17/88)
I was pretty surprised that the $6500 price for Jobs' NeXT computer has been tossed around so much. Given what the machine is supposed to include, it seems rather bold to promise a price at this juncture. Last week, Business Week had a fairly long article about Jobs' machine. It seems like he's been rather fanatic about many aspects of his toy. For instance, the CPU cabinet is made of die cast magnesium. Apparently, at one point Jobs flew into a rage becasue there were mold mark lines INSIDE the case, and ordered the whole thing retooled to get rid of the marks. Supoosedly, according to the same article, 8 megabytes of RAM is also included in the base system. It would seem like all the technical goodies' cost combined with having to amoritize off the costs of development mean that he is going to have to live with a pretty thin per-unit margin. Sorry if this is off the mark of being .tech. It amazes me how many companies forget the fact that in adition to providing the world with a really neat gizmo, that they also have to feed themselves, and perhaps make some money for their stockholders too. The video toaster looks neat enough, that I'd probably still buy one, even if it cost twice the original estimate. It would still be a good value for the features it is supposed to have. --Bill
richard@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) (10/18/88)
In article <3769@homxc.UUCP> jca@homxc.UUCP (J.ANTROSIGLIO) writes: >In article <5380001@otter.hple.hp.com>, ljc@otter.hple.hp.com (Lee Carter) writes: >> Does anyone have any information on when (if ever) the video toaster is >> going to be released. > >In the lastest Issue of AmigaWorld a comment was made that ram prices >are what's holding up the release of video toaster. I'll bet the fact that the software isn't done yet may have something to do with it too. -- What on Earth did Walt Disney have against cats ? richard@gryphon.CTS.COM {backbone...err, well connected site}!gryphon!richard
grr@cbmvax.UUCP (George Robbins) (10/19/88)
In article <5380001@otter.hple.hp.com> ljc@otter.hple.hp.com (Lee Carter) writes: > Okay, okay, I give up! > Does anyone have any information on when (if ever) the video toaster is > going to be released. I saw blurb about this device almost a year ago and > thought "Great!! sounds just what I need!" > So, can anybody help with the latest rumours about price, release date, etc. > Thanks. From their product support group on BIX: newtek/toaster #86, from tjenison, 3006 chars, Sat Oct 15 13:17:48 1988 TITLE: Toaster Update It's time to bring all of you up to date on what's happening with the Video Toaster and to explain some of what's happened in the past. When we first started work on the Video Toaster last year, it was our intent to bring it to market as swiftly as possible. We showed our first prototype at a few shows to get initial reactions and to solicit comment; we went on Computer Chronicles for the same reason. Boy, did we get a reaction. After we dug ourselves out from under the blizzard of letters and phone calls in the next month, we took a look at the situation. In the time that we had been developing the Toaster, the RAM chip prices had shot through the roof, and there was a severe shortage. After we talked to our suppliers and made some calculations, the following facts became clear: 1) At the current RAM prices, we would have to charge at least $2500 for the Toaster to make a decent profit, and 2) we couldn't even GET enough RAM chips to meet a fraction of the demand for Toasters. After we discussed this (read: pitched battles), we came to the following conclusions: 1) we didn't want to the Toaster to be expensive; the whole idea was to bring the technology to as wide an audience as possible, and that meant as low a price tag as we could accept, and 2) we didn't want to disappoint or enrage our customers by having a very limited supply of Toasters that was clearly far below the demand already present. (The thought of Toaster smugglers and amred bandits creating a lucrative black market was also a factor in our decision.) We decided to wait until the RAM chip situation cleared up before marketing the Toaster, and use the time to continue research on the breakthroughs behind the Toaster. Well, the RAM chip crisis is passing, and so we are getting very close to bringing the Toaster to market. The time has not been wasted; we've have made a number of breakthroughs that enable us to give you a much better product. We've incorporated the comments and features that many of you have suggested. The picture quality is much better now than with the first prototype, the genlock is dead-on broadcast RS-170A spec (unlike some others), and the software is much more powerful. We've also engineered for future add-on products, making sure that the line of additional video equipment we plan will be easily connected to the Toaster. In the next month or two, we'll provide more information and more detailed specs. I'm still hesitant to give an exact date, since the software and the documentation are still in process. But our full attention is now focussed on the Toaster, and we'll bring it to you as soon as we can. I appreciate your support and your patience, and I apologize for the long time between prototype and product. But the Toaster is a revolutionary device, and such things are always difficult to create. I promise that you won't be disappointed when you finally get a Video Toaster. -- George Robbins - now working for, uucp: {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!grr but no way officially representing arpa: cbmvax!grr@uunet.uu.net Commodore, Engineering Department fone: 215-431-9255 (only by moonlite)
jim@athsys.uucp (Jim Becker) (10/20/88)
From article <1370@neoucom.UUCP>, by wtm@neoucom.UUCP (Bill Mayhew): > > I was pretty surprised that the $6500 price for Jobs' NeXT computer > has been tossed around so much. Given what the machine is supposed > to include, it seems rather bold to promise a price at this > juncture. > > It amazes me how > many companies forget the fact that in adition to providing the > world with a really neat gizmo, that they also have to feed > themselves, and perhaps make some money for their stockholders > too. > > --Bill I wouldn't hold your breath wondering if Jobs is going to make money on the NeXT machine, his strategy is excellent. First get lots of students and profs to write software for it, for cheap, then sell it to business with all this new software. From what I have heard, there is a source code converter to "port" Mac -> NeXT programs automatically. He will have lots of software to make it popular. Also, the extras all have a price tag also. For example, the 9600 baud modem is supposedly 80% in the basic box. The extra 20% I would assume has a price. Also the harddisk offered is no basement discount at $3995.00 for 670mb. I'm sure there will be other addons needed to get all the functionality. Note also that everything is compatible with exactly one system, his, and one must buy from NeXT to get the functionality. How much do you think Apple made from LaserWriters this way ?? Finally, the developer documentation is priced at $395.00 for the printed material. Don't doubt that Mr. Jobs has figured out where he will make some money. I just wonder where he will be making the DRAMs for 8mb systems. I assume that they will be either 1mbit or 4mbit, but made here or elsewhere is the question. -Jim Becker
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (10/20/88)
Yeah (re: Video Toaster software) New-Tek *STILL* hasn't corrected the self-modifying code bug in DigiView version 3.0 that affects the DigiDroid (re: the DigiDroid not functioning on a 68020 or 68030 Amiga unless the cache(s) are turned OFF) :-( Back at the FAUG meeting earlier this year that Max Toy attended, Tim Jennison swore up and down (in answer to someone ELSE's question) that the bug would be fixed in version 3.0. It wasn't. Then, after I accused Paul Montgomer of being the Bandito (in Amazing Computing) and he called me asking me to retract that statement on the FAUG BBS in exchange for a quick fix to make DigiDroid work on an '020 Amiga (and I said "Yes"), the bug hasn't been fixed (and this has been almost 3 months now). Sheesh. Perhaps New-Tek is spending too much time doing demos and NOT doing the real software ... this is just my idle speculation. You decide for yourself. Thad Floryan [thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ...!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad]
pa1590@sdcc15.UUCP (pa1590) (10/22/88)
In article <10246@cup.portal.com> thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) writes: >Yeah (re: Video Toaster software) >New-Tek *STILL* hasn't corrected the self-modifying code bug in DigiView >version 3.0 that affects the DigiDroid (re: the DigiDroid not functioning >on a 68020 or 68030 Amiga unless the cache(s) are turned OFF) :-( There never was, nor is there now, any "self-modifying" code in DigiView. DigiDroid does not currently work on an '020 Amiga for other reasons. We apologize for this fact - we wanted to get version 3.0 out, and give people things they've been screaming for like overscan. 68020 Amigas are still a very small percentage of our customer base. All future releases of NewTek products will fully support '020 machines. >Then, after I accused Paul Montgomer of being the Bandito (in Amazing >Computing) and he called me asking me to retract that statement on the >FAUG BBS in exchange for a quick fix to make DigiDroid work on an '020 I just spoke with Paul, and he said there was no such "exchange". It seems logical to me that you should retract inaccurate, and harmful statements anyways, Thad. Paul was "very pissed off" that you would even say such things in a public forum. >Perhaps New-Tek is spending too much time doing demos and NOT doing the >real software ... NewTek is a company which does products, Thad. Innovative products. We use demos as a way of testing new technology as we develop it. Demo Reel One was written using software developed for Digi-F/X, a product which we are still working on. Demo Reel One sold more Amigas than any other such effort, and helped the Amiga community as a whole. Demo Reel Two, which we previewed at Ami Expo L.A., shows the results of ongoing work in the area of video compression. The efforts put into these demos are helping us develop products. Part of our philsophy is to sell hardware / software combinations which let users do state-of-the-art things at a reasonable price. NewTek is devoted 100% to the Amiga. We are NOT developing on other machines, and we are NOT releasing 50 products a year. From NewTek, you will only see a few products a year, but they will be ones you feel comfortable buying. We're out to do something different, and it's not easy. Nor is it quick. >Thad Floryan [thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ...!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad] P.S. Along these lines, we're also currently looking for programmers who want to help us bring our ideas to life. Moving to Kansas is NOT a requirement, as you can see from my address here in San Diego. If you're good, and you're interested, give Marla a call at NewTek (913) 354-1146. -- Stephen Hartford shartford@ucsd SDAUG Hotline (619) 221-7168 San Diego Amiga Users Group P.O.Box 80186, San Diego, CA 92138-0186
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (10/23/88)
Stephen Hartford (of NewTek) writes: `` There never was, nor is there now, any "self-modifying" code in DigiView. DigiDroid does not currently work on an '020 Amiga for other reasons. We apologize for this fact - we wanted to get version 3.0 out, and give people things they've been screaming for like overscan. 68020 Amigas are still a very small percentage of our customer base. All future releases of NewTek products will fully support '020 machines. '' Tim Jennison (President of NewTek) admitted the DigiDroid "bug" in public during the ((video) recorded) meeting of FAUG at which Max Toy was the featured speaker earlier this year. The bug surfaced in DigiView Version 2.0 (April 1987) though it wasn't detectable until DigiDroid shipped in January 1988. Bryan Gallivan and I independently "discovered" that DigiDroid only functions (on an '020 Amiga) when the instruction cache is flushed and turned OFF; this is prima facie evidence for self-modifying code. ==================== Continuing: `` >Then, after I accused Paul Montgomer of being the Bandito (in Amazing >Computing) and he called me asking me to retract that statement on the >FAUG BBS in exchange for a quick fix to make DigiDroid work on an '020 I just spoke with Paul, and he said there was no such "exchange". It seems logical to me that you should retract inaccurate, and harmful statements anyways, Thad. Paul was "very pissed off" that you would even say such things in a public forum. '' The very-strong flames directed at Amazing Computing on the FAUG-BBS (by MANY) followed the several months' series of articles in which the Bandito was essentially saying NewTek was good and everything else was evil. That series of articles so angered many people that Jack Palmatier (Winner's Circle, Berkeley, CA) called Don Hicks to get the story, but Don wouldn't reveal the Bandito's identity. Shortly afterwards, a new 'disclaimer' starts appearing in AC prefacing the Bandito's column. :-) I'm sorry to hear that Paul has forgotten our conversation. On that "certain" day, I first received a phone call from Mitch Lopes (chief honcho of Robo City News) alerting me to expect a call from Paul Montgomery in re: the Bandito since "someone" had informed him (Paul) of the exchanges on the FAUG-BBS. Several hours later Paul called and said he was going to contact his lawyer unless I posted something to the effect that Paul is not and was not ever the Bandito. Interesting he should call me at my office where we have this real nice voice email system. The archives of FAUG-BBS are also available should the need arise. I never (knowingly) post inaccurate and harmful material. Because the events are precisely as I related them, there is NOTHING to retract. ==================== Continuing: `` >Perhaps New-Tek is spending too much time doing demos and NOT doing the >real software ... [ and I said "This is idle speculation on my part."] NewTek is a company which does products, Thad. Innovative products. We use demos as a way of testing new technology as we develop it. [..... material deleted.....] '' Hey, I buy NewTek products! But disabling the instruction cache to use DigiDroid is unacceptable, so I have to continue using the manual color wheel. It's about 6 months now with no fix; the DigiDroid is of marginal use to me and is for sale. I'd like to end this on a POSITIVE note and offer the information (to you and others) that a LOT of so-called "power users" are operating hot-rodded Amigas with 68020 or 68030 chips under the hood, and there is a legitimate concern for software compatibility with these processors. Especially since such processors are officially supported by CBM for the Amiga and the guidelines to assure software compatibility (re: 68010, 68020 (and now 68030)) have been hammered home since the first Developers' Conference in Monterey circa May 1985. Some people using such Amigas for commercial production in the creative arts (e.g. music, graphics, animations, etc.) even have multiple systems equipped with '020 and '030. Bryan Gallivan, Paul Theodoropoulos, Ken Hodel, etc. are just a few names that come to mind (of those who publicly discuss their projects in the SF Bay Area). These are the people who buy your products the DAY they become available. It is even "rumored" that one person leaves blank checks at a local dealer to assure receipt of all the new stuff! Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ]
thad@cup.portal.com (Thad P Floryan) (10/23/88)
(Primarily) to: Stephen Hartford (of NewTek) Hmmm, looking back at this exchange, I can see where one point is unclear, and this could be the point with which (in your words) ``Paul was "very pissed off" that you would even say such things in a public forum.'' The tirade started on FAUG-BBS with one person (Jack Palmatier) discussing the articles in AC and opening speculation as to the (new) Bandito's identity. The names of John Foust, Matthew Leeds, etc. were openly bandied-about. I conjectured Paul due to a perceived similarity of writing style. Jack's discussion with Don Hicks cooled things down. Because there was NO evidence, I complied with Paul's request, and stated "It has come to my attention from a reputable source that Paul Montgomery is NOT the Bandito." (The preceding from FAUG archives). The ONLY reason this matter has resurfaced was due to Lee Carter's question about the Video Toaster whose availability has been promised for some time. Live demos of the Video Toaster have whetted our appetites for this product. My comments focussed on the promises made by Tim and Paul for the DigiDroid fix; promises that "should" have been fulfilled months ago and had to be put in the context they were given. Thad Floryan [ thad@cup.portal.com (OR) ..!sun!portal!cup.portal.com!thad ]