ranjit@grad2.cis.upenn.edu (Ranjit Bhatnagar) (05/10/89)
I got a nice shiny amiga 1000 (Rev 6 motherboard and Rev 3
daughterboard) and a Ronin Hurricane 1000 (20 MHz '020/'881)
to plug in it. Unfortunately, they dont work together. The
nice (but somewhat snooty) folks at Ronin (they say "row-neen")
don't have much to say except "send us the hurricane board and
at least 50 bucks and we'll see how much more it'll cost you."
So I thought I'd describe the symptoms, not only because perhaps
someone will have an idea, but because they're weird enough that
you may get a laugh out of them.
The system: Amiga 1000, Rev 6 motherboard, Rev 3 daughterboard.
Comspec SOTS 2 Meg expansion
Ronin Hurricane 1000 (20 MHz)
All the parts were bought used. Previous owner
claims that the hurricane was never used, I think.
Without the hurricane installed, the system works fine by every
diagnostic I can think of. (Nasty software, memtest, dpaint II,
the works.) I grounded the PALs very carefully, and it still
worked.
With the Hurricane installed, the symptoms depend on whether the
memory expansion is also plugged in.
With memory removed:
if the RFI shield is removed, the system will ask for
and load kickstart, then flash the power light and either
cold-start or enter a cycle: screen flashes black-gray-white,
power light flashes (too fast to count the flashes).
Ronin says that the hurricane should work with the shield
off. My room is not a particularly bad interference environment.
If the RFI shield is installed, then I can boot a workbench disk.
However, loadwb fails with a guru B (opcode 1111).
I resoldered
all the connector pins on the hurricane on the suggestion of the
guy who sold it to me, and this problem went away. All the
following problems remained:
DigiPaint version 1 crashes after entering password,
guru 8.3342 (priviledge violation) even if I run ronin's
move sr filter - if run from an icon. If run from CLI
it works fine, except:
Any selection of a menu item may cause a guru B or 4.
Selection of the menu item "SHADING" which creates a new
gadget is very likely to cause a guru 4 (illegal instruction).
note that turning the 020's cache off didn't change anything.
With 2 meg sots memory (comspec) installed:
with or without shield, system is likely to go into
cold-boot loop as described above. It can read kickstart
but not continue to the INSERT WORKBENCH prompt.
If it will read the workbench, it will often immediately
crash with a guru 1076 (yes, 00 00 1076, I know it's weird).
If it makes it past that, then screen and window title bars
rendered on any screen may be rendered either 3 times normal
height, or occasionally what looked like negative height:
the border would extend up off the top of the screen no matter
where I dragged the window. This condition was unstable
and would eventually crash with a guru 4, B, or 1076.
loadwb would crash with a guru B, and after hitting the
left mouse button or control-a-a, would immediately crash
with the same guru. Hitting the button again would warm-boot.
Rebooting while holding the mouse button down (cool boot?)
would sometimes allow intuition to come up with normal
sized window and screen title bars. The system at this point
would be mnore stable: less likely to crash at random. At
this point I could run a memory test, and confirm that
the hurricane has no problem reading the comspec memory.
I could run vt100 2.8 and it would work for a while and
then crash. Any selection of a menu item or selection
of an intuition gadget (not including window standard gadgets)
would cause a guru 4.200E42 - always the SAME address,
no matter whether I booted 1.2 or 1.3, or what I had done before.
Exception: the menus in microemacs from the 1.2 extras didn't
cause crashes, ever. I tested menus and gadgets in Digipaint,
Dpaint II and Sculpt 3D. I also tried gadgets in DropShadow-
after some use, the same 4.200E42 appeared.
Marketroid gurud immediately after saying "THE REAL STOR"
with a B.2092A8.
Nemesis hung (no guru, but system froze) on displaying the big 3.
vt100 would guru at random.
That pretty much covers the symptoms. What bothers me is that
the symptoms are not only weird, but VERY repeatable! For instance the
fat window/screen titles, though they only came up in 2 out of 3 warm boots,
were always exactly the same height (approx 3 times normal).
Menus in some programs would never crash, and in others would always
crash, at exactly the same mem. address. It is my hope that because
of the combination of the repeatability and the very strong PERSONALITY of
these problems that someone will have some idea of what is going on.
I'll reiterate that the very same software with the same kickstart disk
(1.3 from the enhancer packge) works absolutely perfectly (well, for
dpaint II that's a relative term) when I plug in the 68000 in place
of the Hurricane board, so it's very unlikely that I have a bad
kickstart disk, amiga, or memory expansion. I have checked the grounding
of the pals, as well as that of most of the rest of the motherboard,
and it seems very solid. Even if you have no idea what's going on,
perhaps this gave you some laughs on a cloudy day.
-ranjit (aargh!)
*** ranjit bhatnagar * 4333 osage av * phila pa 19104-3905 * (215) 386-7159 ***
"Trespassers w" ranjit@eniac.seas.upenn.edu mailrus!eecae!netnews!eniac!...
Near the sides of tall buildings, how dare they kiss goodbye?
Those buildings that saw the airplanes that kiss the air in their fantasy.kevin@uts.amdahl.com (Kevin Clague) (05/10/89)
In article <10948@netnews.upenn.edu> ranjit@grad2.cis.upenn.edu.UUCP (Ranjit Bhatnagar) writes: >I got a nice shiny amiga 1000 (Rev 6 motherboard and Rev 3 >daughterboard) and a Ronin Hurricane 1000 (20 MHz '020/'881) >to plug in it. Unfortunately, they dont work together. The >nice (but somewhat snooty) folks at Ronin (they say "row-neen") >don't have much to say except "send us the hurricane board and >at least 50 bucks and we'll see how much more it'll cost you." I had a similar experience with John from Ronin. > >So I thought I'd describe the symptoms, not only because perhaps >someone will have an idea, but because they're weird enough that >you may get a laugh out of them. I doubt it. > >The system: Amiga 1000, Rev 6 motherboard, Rev 3 daughterboard. > Comspec SOTS 2 Meg expansion > Ronin Hurricane 1000 (20 MHz) I had a 1000, ASDG MiniRack and Ronin board. > >With the Hurricane installed, the symptoms depend on whether the >memory expansion is also plugged in. > >With memory removed: Mine always worked without the SOTS attached. >With 2 meg sots memory (comspec) installed: > with or without shield, system is likely to go into > cold-boot loop as described above. It can read kickstart > but not continue to the INSERT WORKBENCH prompt. Mine NEVER worked with the SOTS attached. I grounded the PALS and installed new PALs from CSA. > >That pretty much covers the symptoms. What bothers me is that >the symptoms are not only weird, but VERY repeatable! For instance the > >I'll reiterate that the very same software with the same kickstart disk >(1.3 from the enhancer packge) works absolutely perfectly (well, for >dpaint II that's a relative term) when I plug in the 68000 in place >of the Hurricane board, so it's very unlikely that I have a bad >kickstart disk, amiga, or memory expansion. I have checked the grounding >of the pals, as well as that of most of the rest of the motherboard, >and it seems very solid. Even if you have no idea what's going on, >perhaps this gave you some laughs on a cloudy day. In my case it does not make me laugh. It makes me angry again. Flashback to a couple of years ago in my life: I've had an ASDG MiniRack with two megs for a year and a half and it has always worked great. I buy a Ronin board. I plug it in and it NEVER boots. I ground the PALs and replace them with CSA PALs. It NEVER boots. Ronin says "It must be the ASDG. Get rid of it." I really wanted a 68020/881, so I took it to Ronin in San Fransisco. They keep it for two weeks and the answer is "We don't know why it doesn't work." Good engineering eh? They tried two different MiniRacks with 2 Megs and couldn't get either one to work. They also lost my keyboard and my MiniRack power cord, and wanted me to pay for it! They also damaged the MiniRacks. See why I get angry? (This should be in comp.sys.amiga no?) BTW Leo has a 1000, MiniRack with 2Meg board and a Ronin and it works fine. Just lucky I'd guess. He must live right! Try getting the CSA PALs and installing them in your daughterboard, ^^^ .tech justification or do what I did: Buy a 2000 and a 2620. I got mine yesterday and it works flawlessly! I will never do business with Ronin again, but I try to look at both sides. The 1000 was not really built for expansion, and they are a VERY small business. John is a good guy, but the customer always seems to come last (bad attitude for any business.) > > -ranjit (aargh!) > >"Trespassers w" ranjit@eniac.seas.upenn.edu mailrus!eecae!netnews!eniac!... > Near the sides of tall buildings, how dare they kiss goodbye? > Those buildings that saw the airplanes that kiss the air in their fantasy. Anymore NON-technical responses like this should be moved to comp.sys.amiga.tech. -- UUCP: kevin@uts.amdahl.com or: {sun,decwrl,hplabs,pyramid,seismo,oliveb}!amdahl!kevin DDD: 408-737-5481 USPS: Amdahl Corp. M/S 249, 1250 E. Arques Av, Sunnyvale, CA 94086 [ Any thoughts or opinions which may or may not have been expressed ] [ herein are my own. They are not necessarily those of my employer. ]
daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) (05/11/89)
in article <24odY54ZYK1010owcU2@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com>, kevin@uts.amdahl.com (Kevin Clague) says: > I really wanted a 68020/881, so I took it to Ronin in San Fransisco. > They keep it for two weeks and the answer is "We don't know why it > doesn't work." Good engineering eh? They tried two different MiniRacks > with 2 Megs and couldn't get either one to work. ... > BTW Leo has a 1000, MiniRack with 2Meg board and a Ronin and it works > fine. Just lucky I'd guess. He must live right! One thing I should point out is that this kind of expansion, plugging something into the 68000 socket, it's a method of expansion supported by Commodore-Amiga, and one of the big reasons for this is that WE can't guarantee it'll work. Even if Ronin did a fantastic job at desigining their card (I haven't seen their A1000 card, so I really have no idea on how good that specific one is) there's a chance that something like this isn't going to work, especially with an additional SOTs on the side. The only form of expansion that's supported on an A1000 is a single SOTs box, which of course could be a whole expansion chassis like ASDG's or some of the others. Anything that plugs into the 68000 socket is looking for trouble. Such a board probably has long header pins, which add capacitance and a chance at noise. There's probably not enough power or ground pins to make something like this real reliable. There's also not likely enough drive capability on the A1000 local bus, and certainly no spec on what loads such a socket-sitting device is allowed to have. On the other hand, you can't hardly knock it if it works good. I'd just like to have a fighting chance of any arbitrary combination of '020/'030 board, motherboard, and expansion goodies all working together. The A2000's CPU slot was specifically intended for accelerator boards. The load of a board that follows the published CPU slot specifications is taken into account. Etc. The Ronin '020 board for the A2000 that I looked at worked just fine in that slot, in combination with all kinds of other stuff. I personally recommend A2620s, but I do admit to being biased. >> -ranjit (aargh!) > UUCP: kevin@uts.amdahl.com -- Dave Haynie "The 32 Bit Guy" Commodore-Amiga "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: D-DAVE H BIX: hazy Amiga -- It's not just a job, it's an obsession
kevin@cbmvax.UUCP (Kevin Klop) (05/12/89)
In article <6830@cbmvax.UUCP> daveh@cbmvax.UUCP (Dave Haynie) writes: >One thing I should point out is that this kind of expansion, plugging >something into the 68000 socket, it's a method of expansion supported by >Commodore-Amiga, and one of the big reasons for this is that WE can't >guarantee it'll work. I believe that he meant, "...68000 slot, it's a method of expansion NOT supported by Commodore-Amiga..." -- Kevin -- Kevin Klop {uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!kevin Commodore-Amiga, Inc. The number, 111-111-1111 has been changed. The new number is: 134-253-2452-243556-678893-3567875645434-4456789432576-385972 Disclaimer: _I_ don't know what I said, much less my employer.
ewhac@well.UUCP (Leo 'Bols Ewhac' Schwab) (05/12/89)
In article <24odY54ZYK1010owcU2@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com> kevin@amdahl.uts.amdahl.com (Kevin Clague) writes: > BTW Leo has a 1000, MiniRack with 2Meg board and a Ronin and it works >fine. Just lucky I'd guess. He must live right! > Actually, it doesn't really work fine. When the ASDG RAM card gets hot, the system will guru at random in a variety of ways which seem to indicate that the CPU is trying to execute data (suggesting that the bits are getting scrambled due to overheating). I hacked The World's Loudest Muffin Fan into the ASDG rack, but this measure still doesn't insure 100% reliability, particularly when the 68881 is being used. And on very hot days, repeated guruing is almost certain. _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Leo L. Schwab -- The Guy in The Cape INET: well!ewhac@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU \_ -_ Recumbent Bikes: UUCP: pacbell > !{well,unicom}!ewhac O----^o The Only Way To Fly. hplabs / (pronounced "AE-wack") "Work FOR? I don't work FOR anybody! I'm just having fun." -- The Doctor