ellend (01/06/83)
I am looking for information regarding the commodore 64. (I am especially interested in hearing from anyone who has had first hand experience using the computer. However, as I don't know anything about the computer; specs, available software and peripherals, and any other information would be welcomed as well). Please reply by electronic mail. Thanks, Ellen Deleganes tektronix!tekmdp!ellend
GEOF@mit-xx.arpa (01/14/83)
From: Geoffrey H. Cooper <GEOF@mit-xx.arpa>
I have looked at the commodore 64, although I don't have one (or
any micro) yet. I have gone so far as to play with one in a dealer's
display.
The machine looks like a VIC-20 with a darker case. In fact, it's the same
case, same keyboard, same plugs in the rear. The keyboard, while not what
I would call "A-1" rated, is very good -- I wouldn't mind typing on it all
day if it was what I had. The positioning of the arrow keys is a bit funny,
but the only real screwup I saw was the lack of {}'s. I believe that brace's
were left off the keyboard because the computer uses a character generator
which is compatible with some older machines, and which has no braces. It
is obviously the <<wrong>> character generator for this machine: half of the
characters are just the alphabet in inverse-color, and the video hardware
of the C-64 is capable of inverting any character without changing the code.
The graphics are not super resolution -- something on the order of 256^2 --
but provides 16 colors, all of which are color-mapped (so that you can
dynamically choose any 16 of 256 colors to be displayed at a time). There
are also sprites.
An interesting feature of the machine is the sound generator. It provides
4 voices, and attack-decay functions. The waveforms are hardwired which
is a pity, or you would really have the effect of that casio soundbox they
sell.
The video output is "composite" for a monitor, or, i believe, it can be
hooked up to a TV set. The disk drive available for it is the same as for
the VIC-20, and I'm told it is slow. There is a modem for $100.
The dealer told me that Commodore is bringing out a Z-80 processor card,
which is supposed to cost about $100, CP/M included. This is supposed
to be available very soon. There is also an Apple simulator in the works
(the C-64 is a 6502 machine, so that's not hard) by several companies; no
word on when that will arrive. There is currently available a $50 adaptor
for that IEEE standard ''lab net'' to which many disks and what-not
connect. Also, Atari joysticks fit into the machine's joystick ports.
The weak point of the machine is software. I don't know how data formatted
for apple or CP/M will get into the machine, but if that problem is solved,
the software problem might be OK. I have seen no useful software for the
machine from commodore.
When you add up all the features that you get, and then tally up the retail
prices for disk drive, modem, etc., you get a price of about $1500. This is
less than an apple, but the apple has (as I understand it) a high-res mode
that gives much higher resolution than the commodore. I would think that much
of the "fun" software that has been written for the apple will never run on
the 64.
There are certainly others on the net that have more experience with the
machine than I, so I would welcome any corrections or additions.
- Geof Cooper
MIT
-------GEOF@mit-xx.arpa (01/14/83)
From: Geoffrey H. Cooper <GEOF@mit-xx.arpa>
I have looked at the commodore 64, although I don't have one (or
any micro) yet. I have gone so far as to play with one in a dealer's
display.
The machine looks like a VIC-20 with a darker case. In fact, it's the same
case, same keyboard, same plugs in the rear. The keyboard, while not what
I would call "A-1" rated, is very good -- I wouldn't mind typing on it all
day if it was what I had. The positioning of the arrow keys is a bit funny,
but the only real screwup I saw was the lack of {}'s. I believe that brace's
were left off the keyboard because the computer uses a character generator
which is compatible with some older machines, and which has no braces. It
is obviously the <<wrong>> character generator for this machine: half of the
characters are just the alphabet in inverse-color, and the video hardware
of the C-64 is capable of inverting any character without changing the code.
The graphics are not super resolution -- something on the order of 256^2 --
but provides 16 colors, all of which are color-mapped (so that you can
dynamically choose any 16 of 256 colors to be displayed at a time). There
are also sprites.
An interesting feature of the machine is the sound generator. It provides
4 voices, and attack-decay functions. The waveforms are hardwired which
is a pity, or you would really have the effect of that casio soundbox they
sell.
The video output is "composite" for a monitor, or, i believe, it can be
hooked up to a TV set. The disk drive available for it is the same as for
the VIC-20, and I'm told it is slow. There is a modem for $100.
The dealer told me that Commodore is bringing out a Z-80 processor card,
which is supposed to cost about $100, CP/M included. This is supposed
to be available very soon. There is also an Apple simulator in the works
(the C-64 is a 6502 machine, so that's not hard) by several companies; no
word on when that will arrive. There is currently available a $50 adaptor
for that IEEE standard ''lab net'' to which many disks and what-not
connect. Also, Atari joysticks fit into the machine's joystick ports.
The weak point of the machine is software. I don't know how data formatted
for apple or CP/M will get into the machine, but if that problem is solved,
the software problem might be OK. I have seen no useful software for the
machine from commodore.
When you add up all the features that you get, and then tally up the retail
prices for disk drive, modem, etc., you get a price of about $1500. This is
less than an apple, but the apple has (as I understand it) a high-res mode
that gives much higher resolution than the commodore. I would think that much
of the "fun" software that has been written for the apple will never run on
the 64.
There are certainly others on the net that have more experience with the
machine than I, so I would welcome any corrections or additions.
- Geof Cooper
MIT
-------bstempleton (01/21/83)
You got a lot of facts wrong on the 64. I have had one for about 8 months now and think it's the best value on the market in bang/buck. There are not 256 colours, just 16 which include 5 grey-scales. You can get 320 by 200 resolution with a different set of colours in each 8 by 8 block, and with interrupts you can (almost) get 160 by 200 resolution with 16 colours per pixel. The character generator can't provide reverse video, but does allow 256 characters. The built in rom is just addressed so that the upper characters cause a reverse. You can put in your own charset (including braces) fairly easily. It comes with two character sets. It's really not like a vic at all except in looks. The apple can not provide the resolution of the 64, let alone more. The apple's memory is arranged very screwed up. The 64's is also screwed up but not as much. As for software, it's a new machine, so there is less, but most PET software will run directly or can be easily modified. I myself have an assembler and Programmer's aid package on the market already (PLUG)