toma (01/26/83)
Thanks for all of you that responded. Here is rundown of the "results". I wanted a low-cost (lower the better) home computer for my children (ages 5,6, and 9) which would run LOGO. I feel that LOGO would make a better introduction to computers than BASIC, not only because of more easily understood syntax, but also because of its graphic orientation rather than numeric. The candidates were Commodore, Radio Shack Color Comp, TI, Atari 400, and (available but too expensive) Apple. I do not intend to use the machine myself, as I already have a personal computer. I am only interested in its value to the children. From most expensive down: APPLE ][ -- One respondent stated that this is the only one of Apple, R.S., and TI that implements the full LOGO language. The others do not have much beyond the turtle graphics. He also suggested that a disk drive is important. If I were purchasing a system for me to use, I would agree, but having a language subset is no problem, and from my past experience, small children and floppy disks should be kept well separated! The real problem is that such a system would cost over k, and even buying clone systems wouldn't reduce it to a range I would be comfortable with. TI 99/4 -- The disappointment here is that a 00.00 base price system becomes 00 (discounted prices) when sufficient hardware is added to run LOGO. And it seems to have really bad display problems because of pseudo-graphic capability (a number of sources mention this). There is an additional problem in that it requires an expansion box, which means the computer is in more pieces (very bad when children have to take it out and put it away). It does seem to have the best selection of educational software, though. Commodore 64-- I would expect that this would come in at the same price as the TI, but would be a superior machine. Unfortunately, I got no response from anywhere about this system, and from what I here there is very little software for it. The following systems would be about the same price: Radio Shack Color Computer -- This ends up costing about 00.00, including cable to my existing tape recorder. Their lesser Basic is in this price, and minimum (16k) ram. The keyboard is one of the worst I have ever seen, but maybe the kids wouldn't mind. Presumable LOGO is slow, and it definately is a subset. Atari 400 -- Although several people mentioned LOGO, as far as I can tell they must mean PILOT, which has turtle graphics. I have looked at Pilot in the CP/M library, and have ruled it out as a language. Its not a language for children to learn so much as it is a language to write CAI programs to TEACH children. If anybody knows for sure that LOGO is available, please write me and tell me where it comes from! The cost of this system depends on the ability to hook up my existing tape recorder. If I can, it would be cheaper than the R.S., otherwise slightly more. The availability of LOTS of good game cartridges for this system might make it the most expensive of all in the long run! The keyboard is the pits, but might actually be the best bet for children (no worries about spills). Commodore VIC-20 -- Doesn't anybody have software for Commodore machines? If LOGO did exist for it, the necessary additional RAM would run its price up to about as high as the preceeding two machines. It would have the same pseudo-graphics problem as the TI. Well, there you have it. I think I may wait awhile for further advances, but it sure looks like the Radio Shack for now. I'll probably scan all the user magazines first just to be sure. Tom Almy (decvax|ucbvax)!tektronix!tekchips!toma
casterli (01/29/83)
Atari PILOT is a good language for children to *learn* programming. Its simple syntax etc. allows the *beginning* programmer to get a program running much faster than any other language (much faster positive feedback, less frustration)Atari PILOT also supports turtle graphics as well as standard graphics systems. Leroy Casterline