FJW@Mit-Mc@sri-unix (10/21/82)
From: Frank J Wancho <FJW@Mit-Mc> Please do not use INFO-MICRO (or INFO-CPM) to sell anything either privately owned or commercially available. Continuing to do so will be reason to disband the list. Sorry. --Frank
sdyer@Bbn-Unix@sri-unix (10/22/82)
From: Steve Dyer <sdyer@Bbn-Unix> I noticed your anti-"for sale" message. You should realize that that message came from the "net.micro" news group on USENET, which apparently is forwarded onto the ARPAnet without screening from BRL. USENET is a voluntary, dial-up Bboard, and its members can do anything they might please, including posting "for sale" messages. Clearly, the problem is with BRL's policy of forwarding all net.micro submissions without screening. I'm not sure what the solution should be, but is is clearly not harpo!npoiv!alice!mhtsa!mh3bs!rjbu's problem. Steve Dyer decvax!wivax!dyer
FJW@Mit-Mc@sri-unix (10/22/82)
From: Frank J Wancho <FJW@Mit-Mc> I understand the USENET situation. I also understand that there are news groups established expressly for "for sale" messages which do not leak into ARPA. Such messages should go there. The problem of not screening net.micro mail from USENET through BRL is NOT BRL's policy, it is mine. In our recent discussions about digestification of mailings to this list, which would have included as a byproduct, such filtering of for sale mail, we surveyed the group and received something like six requests to receive digests. That was "clearly" not enough to justify the time and effort of some volunteer to act as moderator. It is likewise not worth the effort to screen all the messages from USENET for the occassional for sale message that does leak over to ARPA. In general, the participants of this list have been well-behaved and have followed the unspoken (until now) ground rules of a discussion list. My message was meant to be a reminder of the ground rules that ARPA activities must abide in order to continue to exist. If the USENET portion of this list wants to ignore our situation, then I will simply sever the connection in both directions - an admittedly drastic step that I will not undertake lightly. --Frank
ron@BRL@sri-unix (10/22/82)
From: Ron Natalie <ron@BRL> Since the USENET micro and the ARPAnet micro areas have been merged, the guide lines that Frank suggested should be upheld by both the ARPAnet and USENET submitters. To do otherwise would cause the link between the two INFO-MICRO nets to be forced to terminate. Ron
goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay@sri-unix (10/23/82)
From: Ben Goldfarb <goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay> Frank, you are missing the point. "The USENET portion of this list" is an entity unto itself, not a subentity of this list. Net.micro serves many readers via uucp who have no ARPANET connections. The connection through BRL to ARPANET expands the coverage of the group and is highly desirable. Unfortunately, being a volunteer network, there is no good, clear-cut way to impose rules upon a specific newsgroup, particularly when the attempt comes from another network. Indeed, the sponsors have tried to promulgate rules at times with only limited success. It usually comes down to individuals taking action to survey opinions about the proposed changes, then to implement them. The solution to your problem would be to establish a subgroup of net.micro for commercial messages which brl-bmd would have the option of either ignoring or not forwarding to BRL. We could call it net.micro.d (inside joke for USENET folk). Ben Goldfarb ARPA: goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay UUCP: ...!duke!ucf-cs!goldfarb
CSTROM@Mit-Mc@sri-unix (10/24/82)
From: Charlie Strom <CSTROM@Mit-Mc> Ben, I understand your point, but it seems to me that it is USENET's responsibility to adapt to FJW's ground rules in this case. It is not his problem, but theirs, in other words. I for one do not want to see the appearence of an avalanche of commercial messages on the list. There are enough items of dubious value that I must wade through already. I appreciate FJW's diligence in responding so quickly; it can be likened to the little Dutch boy keeping the dike from crumbling with his finger. I would not like to see the USENET people severed from the list, as no one would be served by that in the long run, but there must be some ground rules adhered to in that quarter!
goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay@sri-unix (10/24/82)
From: Ben Goldfarb <goldfarb.ucf-cs@Udel-Relay> OK, I realize Frank's position is valid, but I wanted to stress that as atomistic as Usenet is, there will be difficulty in enforcing any such sanctions. I, too, would feel the loss if the ARPA connection were severed. But, remember, new people join Usenet all the time and there is no rule book, no briefing, no single person to serve as an information source for problems and general queries. Thus, someone is liable to make the same blunder again. I guess Frank has done the right thing by issuing a stern warning. At least a few folks on net.micro have no doubt taken notice. Ben
dave (10/29/82)
Why not have a filter that automatically strips out messages with "for sale" in their header strings from going to the ARPAnet? It's not too onerous to request from USENET people to make sure they put that string into their header. (Look at recent for sales: they pretty well all do anyway.)
FJW@mit-mc.arpa (02/05/83)
From: Frank J. Wancho <FJW@mit-mc.arpa> Once again I would like to remind people reading INFO-MICRO to NOT send For Sale messages to this list. Not only do such messages present problems for me to justify sponsoring this list on the ARPANET, it defeats the general intent of the list as a discussion forum on micros and related topics and clutters the net traffic and mailboxes with undesired messages. For those of you reading INFO-MICRO on non-ARPANET machines, please look around for another net.whatever to send such For Sale messages - I believe there is such a list set up just for that purpose. Thanks, Frank