gilgalad@caen.engin.umich.edu (Ralph Seguin) (02/06/90)
Hi. Well, I guess that it's true that 1.4 will not work "easily" on the 1000.
Now, I put a question to you. If you have a 1000 with a few megs of RAM (FRANCES)
, would it be possible to remap kickstart space into one of these? The LUCAS board
already allows for kickstart remapping, but only for the current 256K. Would it
be possible to fix this somehow, so that the first 256K gets loaded, remapped and
then loads the other 256K on the end? This may seem a little hazy.
Thanks, Ralph Seguin
gilgalad@caen.engin.umich.edu gilgalad@dip.eecs.umich.edu
gilgalad@goliath.eecs.umich.edu Ralph_Seguin@ub.cc.umich.edu
gilgalad@sparky.eecs.umich.edu USER6TUN@UMICHUB.BITNET
mailrus.cc.umich.edu!sharkey!clif!comnet!mjolnir!{gilgalad|root}
Ralph Seguin | In order to get infinitely many monkeys to type
11010 Lighthouse Dr. #234 | something that actually makes sense, you need to
Belleville, MI 48111 | have infinitely many monkey editors as well.
(313) 697-1048peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (02/09/90)
In article <487c19fa.1a5bf@moth.engin.umich.edu> gilgalad@caen.engin.umich.edu (Ralph Seguin) writes: > Hi. Well, I guess that it's true that 1.4 will not work "easily" on the 1000. What? 1.4 isn't for the 1000? Why? What does it do that requires more than a 1000? -- _--_|\ Peter da Silva <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>. / \ \_.--._/ I haven't lost my mind, it's backed up on tape somewhere! v "Have you hugged your wolf today?" `-_-'
cmcmanis@stpeter.Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) (02/09/90)
In article <5126@sugar.hackercorp.com> (Peter da Silva) writes: >1.4 isn't for the 1000? Why? What does it do that requires more than a 1000? Some ideas (I don't really know, these are just educated guesses) : o Maybe it requires the new chips. Some of the Screen Modes will clearly be uninteresting without them. o Maybe it needs more Chip RAM (no 1M Agni on the A1000) o Maybe it won't fit into 256K of WCS. In any event, 1.3 will continue to work on a 1000 by definition so you won't lose any backward compatibility. Only new programs that require 1.4 will be out of reach. If you don't mind, then don't upgrade your machine. On a different note, I can see why Commodore would orphan the 1000, however it seems that instead of the 2000 offer there should also be a : Deal #0 : Turn in your A1000 and get an A500 for free. Then at least you would save the hassle of dealing with people who couldn't afford to upgrade but wanted to from complaining loudly. In any event after this last chance deal I doubt C/A will be receptive to such pleas. --Chuck McManis uucp: {anywhere}!sun!cmcmanis BIX: cmcmanis ARPAnet: cmcmanis@Eng.Sun.COM These opinions are my own and no one elses, but you knew that didn't you. "If it didn't have bones in it, it wouldn't be crunchy now would it?!"
UH2@psuvm.psu.edu (Lee Sailer) (02/09/90)
In article <131467@sun.Eng.Sun.COM>, cmcmanis@stpeter.Sun.COM (Chuck McManis) says: > > Deal #0 : Turn in your A1000 and get an A500 for free. > This would be a pretty good deal. I'd probably even throw in a $100 or so. I've got a 1000, EHB, with 2.5MB and two floppies (one flaky). Anyone want to trade a 500 or 2000 ?
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (02/09/90)
In article <131467@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: > In article <5126@sugar.hackercorp.com> (Peter da Silva) writes: > >1.4 isn't for the 1000? Why? What does it do that requires more than a 1000? > o Maybe it requires the new chips. Some of the Screen Modes > will clearly be uninteresting without them. "Requires" or "can take advantage of"? I can't see how 1.4 would "require" this. > o Maybe it needs more Chip RAM (no 1M Agni on the A1000) Same complaint. > o Maybe it won't fit into 256K of WCS. So make a kickstart that loads into more than WCS, or provide a new tower for the new ROMs at some reasonable cost. This one I can believe, I just can't believe that it's cheaper for them to take $1000 off on the price of a 2000 than to sell a $50 or so circuit board. > If you don't mind, then don't upgrade your machine. Of course I bloody well mind. > Deal #0 : Turn in your A1000 and get an A500 for free. If Commodore was serious about us 1000 owners, they'd do something like that. -- _--_|\ Peter da Silva <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>. / \ \_.--._/ I haven't lost my mind, it's backed up on tape somewhere! v "Have you hugged your wolf today?" `-_-'
es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) (02/10/90)
>Of course I bloody well mind. > >> Deal #0 : Turn in your A1000 and get an A500 for free. > >If Commodore was serious about us 1000 owners, they'd do something like that. >-- > _--_|\ Peter da Silva <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>. >/ \ >\_.--._/ I haven't lost my mind, it's backed up on tape somewhere! > v "Have you hugged your wolf today?" `-_-' If CBM was serious? Then there aren't any serious companies left in this world. I've never heard of any company ever giving away a computer because the old one got left behind. It's not as if your A1000 will be useless! It'll still work under 1.4, just won't handle everything. Even if it doesn't work under 1.4, contrary to what all the engineers have been saying, you still have 1.3. Besides, would you really want a 500???? The whole point of the 2000 is that it's more expandable. Commodore is being nice, something they didn't have to do at all. I didn't hear of Apple giving Mac or Mac 512 owners free upgrades to the Mac Plus. There has never been an upgrade from the IBM PC or XT. -- Ethan Ethan Solomita: es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu Compu$erve : 70137,3271 Anyone giving away Amigas or Sharp Scanners???
xanthian@saturn.ADS.COM (Metafont Consultant Account) (02/10/90)
In article <5132@sugar.hackercorp.com> peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) writes: >In article <131467@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: >> In article <5126@sugar.hackercorp.com> (Peter da Silva) writes: >>>1.4 isn't for the 1000? Why? What does it do that requires more than a 1000? >> Deal #0 : Turn in your A1000 and get an A500 for free. > >If Commodore was serious about us 1000 owners, they'd do something like that. I wouldn't trade my A1000 for an A500; I type with my keyboard in my lap. I already have an A2000, so another one at a higher price than I paid for this one, used, with the loss of my A1000 in the bargain, is no special deal. I think Commodore is once again facing the question of whether it wants to be considered a serious computer manufacturer, or merely a toymaker with a computer shaped toy in its product line. The judgement always comes back to the same thing: it costs more to support your long time customers than to abandon them. Do you spend the money, and impress new people thinking seriously of becoming your next customers with your committment to your customer base, or do you save the money, and impress them with their eventual fate should they become your customers? I'm really not involved enough to be truely heated about this any more; I have enough A1000 software to last a lifetime, my legal situation precludes me from being a Commodore stock investor any longer, and I'm more looking forward to the high speed 32 bit AmigaDOS/Unix blend offering of the future than the A1000 which mostly gathers dust since my son moved away. Still, I increased $5000 to $15000 investing in Commodore stock in the past, which leaves me with a warm fuzzy feeling for Commodore, and I do hope it is able to make a decision based on long term reputation and increased loyal customer base, rather than short term economics. On the bright side, the comp.sys.amiga.hardware group just carried an announcement by a third party of a way to upgrade the A1000 to the 1.4 chips and OS, so there is both an alternative if Commodore shirks its responsibility to its customers, and an indication to Commodore that the task is doable, if it chooses to shoulder responsibility instead. [I must admit to a lot of admiration for Commodore's attempt to move their A1000 customer base to A2000's, but the fact is that the expected participation is probably minority, that the A1000 base won't go away, and that there will remain a need for a way for A1000s to follow the OS upgrades. Besides, it is still the best looking machine Commodore ever made!] -- Again, my opinions, not the account furnishers'. xanthian@well.sf.ca.us (Kent Paul Dolan) xanthian@ads.com - expiring soon; please use Well address for replies. Kent, the (bionic) man from xanth, now available as a build-a-xanthian kit at better toy stores near you. Warning - some parts proven fragile. Just another unemployed computer graphics programmer. -> METAFONT, TeX, graphics programming done on spec -- (415) 964-4486 <-
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (02/12/90)
In article <2855@cunixc.cc.columbia.edu> es1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes: > It's not as if your A1000 will be useless! It'll still work under 1.4, > just won't handle everything. Good. Then I have no problem. My message was in response to the assertion that the A1000 wouldn't even *support* 1.4. How about providing more information (in Email please) on what 1.4 will or will not do on a 1000? > Even if it doesn't work under 1.4, contrary to what all > the engineers have been saying, you still have 1.3. No thank you. If i'm going to be left behind in an old version of the O/S I'll leave the computer behind first. I've been there before. > Besides, would you really want a 500???? It's not a matter of what I want, it's a matter of what I can afford. -- _--_|\ Peter da Silva <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>. / \ \_.--._/ I haven't lost my mind, it's backed up on tape somewhere! v "Have you hugged your wolf today?" `-_-'
jimm@amiga.UUCP (Jim Mackraz) (02/16/90)
(Peter da Silva) writes:
)> If you don't mind, then don't upgrade your machine.
)Of course I bloody well mind.
Then don't upgrade your machine.
)> Deal #0 : Turn in your A1000 and get an A500 for free.
)If Commodore was serious about us 1000 owners, they'd do something like that.
) _--_|\ Peter da Silva <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>.
What a crock, Peter. You can look at this *second* opportunity to upgrade
your machine and declare that C= can't be serious about treating the A1000
owners fairly? Give me a break.
And I miss the part where trading in for an A500 is more serious than
trading in for an A2000. Is it serious because it would be "free"?
How's that ol' Mac 128K working out for you? Running hypercard on it?
jimm
--
-------------------------------------------------- - opinions by me
"This voice console is a *must*. I press Execute.
`Hello, I know that you've been feeling tired.
I bring you love and deeper understanding.' " -lyrics by Kate Bush2011_552@uwovax.uwo.ca (02/18/90)
In article <5213@amiga.UUCP>, jimm@amiga.UUCP (Jim Mackraz) writes: > (Peter da Silva) writes: [...] > > )> Deal #0 : Turn in your A1000 and get an A500 for free. > )If Commodore was serious about us 1000 owners, they'd do something like that. > ) _--_|\ Peter da Silva <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>. > > What a crock, Peter. You can look at this *second* opportunity to upgrade > your machine and declare that C= can't be serious about treating the A1000 > owners fairly? Give me a break. [...] This is the second upgrade opportunity for users _in_the_United_States_. Please note that there are a lot of A1000 owners elsewhere. I have yet to see a _first_ upgrade offer here. It appears that Commodore is only serious about A1000 owners in the U.S. (And yes, I do know that Commodore US is separate from Commodore Canada. I think that is irrelevant to the question of A1000 support.) -- Terry Gaetz -- gaetz@uwovax.bitnet -- gaetz@uwovax.uwo.ca Astronomy Dept. -- U. Western Ontario -- (this space intentionally left blank) Canada --
peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) (02/19/90)
In article <5213@amiga.UUCP> jimm@superman.UUCP (Jim Mackraz) writes: > (Peter da Silva) writes: > )> If you don't mind, then don't upgrade your machine. > )Of course I bloody well mind. > Then don't upgrade your machine. That's a bit of a non-sequiter. Look, the 128K mac was a botch. The Amiga 1000 isn't. There's no technical reason you can't support AmigaDOS 1.4 on the 1000... and even make a profit on it by selling kickstart tower upgrades or whatever. I'd be happy loading part of kickstart into unprotected memory if that was what it took. But what I seem to be hearing, here, is that 1.4 won't run on the 1000 because you don't want to bother doing it, and if I don't like that I can fork over another $1000 for an Amiga 2000. If I had that kind of discretionary budget I'd already have bought a 2000 straight off. If I'm hearing wrong (and I Iasked this before with no response) why don't you post the straight poop on 1.4 and set me straight. > What a crock, Peter. You can look at this *second* opportunity to upgrade > your machine and declare that C= can't be serious about treating the A1000 > owners fairly? Give me a break. I, personally, haven't had *any* opportunity to upgrade my machine. Money is the root of all evil and all that, but it's also handy to have lots of. I've done my part for Commodore: sticking up for the Amiga, helping to sell it, putting in my time to produce PD utilities, and so on. And now you're telling me I can't upgrade to 1.4, right? Is that what I'm hearing? > And I miss the part where trading in for an A500 is more serious than > trading in for an A2000. Is it serious because it would be "free"? I don't expect it to be free. I'd pay a couple of hundred for it. It's serious because it's affordable. > How's that ol' Mac 128K working out for you? Running hypercard on it? I'm not running 1.3 on a 256K Amiga, either. telling me I can't run 1.4 on a 2-4 megabyte machine (depending on the fate of my RAM card) is pretty cold. -- _--_|\ Peter da Silva <peter@sugar.hackercorp.com>. / \ \_.--._/ I haven't lost my mind, it's backed up on tape somewhere! v "Have you hugged your wolf today?" `-_-'
huver@amgraf.UUCP (Huver) (02/20/90)
In article <5179@sugar.hackercorp.com>, peter@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter da Silva) writes: -- in response to an article jimm@superman.UUCP (Jim Mackraz) posted -- > > ... There's no technical > reason you can't support AmigaDOS 1.4 on the 1000... I'd be happy loading > part of kickstart into unprotected memory if that was what it took. But what > I seem to be hearing, here, is that 1.4 won't run on the 1000 because you > don't want to bother doing it, and if I don't like that I can fork over > another $1000 for an Amiga 2000. If I had that kind of discretionary budget > I'd already have bought a 2000 straight off. > > If I'm hearing wrong (and I asked this before with no response) why don't > you post the straight poop on 1.4 and set me straight. > I don't recall ANYONE from CATS (or related parties) has said anything about 1.4, even off-the-record. So is this Peter's attempt to trick CATS to tell us something they shouldn't yet? :^) I can't believe if 1.4 MUST be in 512K ROMs. But the CA upgrade offer says nothing on this either. All it hinted is that A1000 cannot support "future technology" (a big joke right? any computer that exists in dealer's showroom is already "old technology"). This may mean the new ECS modes which, I seriously suspect, the majority of Amiga owners (whatever model) will NOT use often -- what's more resolution at the expense of all that color? If the FUTURE TECHNOLOGY means "put all that code in slow 512K ROMs" (before anyone starts, don't tell me I can always give up 512K 32-bit RAM if I'm concerned about speed -- so 1M in my machine is for KS?), then it isn't any "future technology" and we can just turn our backs on it. So from practical/technical sides, 1.4 isn't worth it if it 1) REQUIRES 512K ROM or, 2) if it can't live without the ECS hardware. Personally I think CA should've scheduled the upgrade AFTER 1.4 has been announced. All users will then get a clearer picture as to what they can/want do, and CATS wouldn't be put on the spot as they are now: being asked about something they can't talk about. Sure the upgrade offer is good, but the bad timing created this speculation that almost discounted all that "goodness". ----- huver ...!uunet!amgraf!huver
vincelee@monsoon.Berkeley.EDU (Vincent H. Lee) (02/21/90)
In article <131467@sun.Eng.Sun.COM> cmcmanis@sun.UUCP (Chuck McManis) writes: >In article <5126@sugar.hackercorp.com> (Peter da Silva) writes: >>1.4 isn't for the 1000? Why? What does it do that requires more than a 1000? > >Some ideas (I don't really know, these are just educated guesses) : > o Maybe it requires the new chips. Some of the Screen Modes > will clearly be uninteresting without them. Seriously doubt it > o Maybe it needs more Chip RAM (no 1M Agni on the A1000) If it NEEDS more that 512K chip ram, that leaves little (<512) for everybody else. Since 1M chip is a godsend to everyone, this is doubtful. > o Maybe it won't fit into 256K of WCS. Thanks to the smart design of the ROM routines, i would think that any code that couldn't fit in the ROMS could be moved to disk-based libraries. (except boot stuff, of course) True, a workbench disk could get pretty crowded but there's no reason an A1000 couldn't run 1.4 because of a WCS limit. -Vince
jimm@amiga.UUCP (Jim Mackraz) (02/24/90)
In article <355@amgraf.UUCP> huver@amgraf.UUCP (Huver) writes: )In article <5179@sugar.hackercorp.com>, peter@sugar.hackercorp.com )(Peter da Silva) writes: )-- in response to an article jimm@superman.UUCP (Jim Mackraz) posted -- )> There's no technical )> reason you can't support AmigaDOS 1.4 on the 1000... )I don't recall ANYONE from CATS (or related parties) has said anything about )1.4, even off-the-record. So is this Peter's attempt to trick CATS to tell )us something they shouldn't yet? :^) Your excerpting of this article might confuse somebody into thinking that the comment on running V1.4 on an A1000 came from me. I have made no comment on any technical or other issues regarding this. jimm -- -------------------------------------------------- - opinions by me "This voice console is a *must*. I press Execute. `Hello, I know that you've been feeling tired. I bring you love and deeper understanding.' " -lyrics by Kate Bush