giguere@aries5.uwaterloo.ca (Eric Giguere) (04/15/90)
This article is in some ways a companion article to the one I just posted in comp.sys.amiga, but one in which I'd like to get some discussion going about the Amiga's GUI and GUI tools. If anyone has read this month's issue of Computer Language magazine (the one with Ken and Barbie on the cover --- no, I can't explain it either) they would have noticed my comments on the Amiga's GUI: "The GUI basics are all there, but the programmer must specify a lot of details to build his or her own gadgetry for higher-level items such as radio buttons and list boxes. This approach has its advantages (flexibility, for example) but has also led to inconsistency among applications." I don't think anyone who has ever tried to write serious Amiga software will dispute this statement. If they're anything like me, they get frustrated quite quickly by the low-level support the Amiga offers for programmers. What we need are a set of programming toolkits AND a set of firm style guidelines for the Amiga. Now obviously there are toolkits out there right now. Unfortunately I don't think any of them are complete or standardized enough that a majority of developers will use them. In fact I suspect that most developers use the "roll your own" approach to GUI interfacing. "Hmm, let's see, now I need a file requester... geez, lemme spend the next three weeks designing Nifty File Requester 23b because frankly none of the others I've seen cut it." Right now I have a couple of simple projects --- stuff that I need --- that I'd like to do on my Amiga. There's a GUI element to each one. I must admit that the pain involved in programming requesters, etc., is giving me second thoughts about the projects. Certainly it would be easier if I had better tools. So rather than going the YAGUII (Yet Another GUI Interface) route I thought I'd take a look at what was available out there right now. There are some interesting tools --- PowerWindows, IntuiSup, ProSuite, and at least half-a-dozen file requesters --- but nothing seems to approach the completeness and integration of Mac, Windows and OS/2 toolkits. Sure it's great that the Amiga system is so flexible that we can port X Windows over to it, but what if I just want to do simple stuff like throw up a requester with a few buttons, some text and maybe an eye-catching image? What if I want to do it consistently across applications? I can't! Then there's 1.4 looming on the horizon. It will supposedly bring major changes to Intuition. But will it bring a toolkit? Should we even be worrying about 1.4? If it makes drastic changes to the Amiga interface then a lot of software is going to have to be recoded eventually --- including a toolkit with 1.4 would be a real boon, I think. Now here's the question I'd like to put to the net: Should we, as a group, and in the same spirit as ARP and ARexx, get together and start hashing out specifications, code, etc. for some kind of freely redistributable programmer's toolkit? Or even a commercial product? It would need fairly wide acceptance --- I'm not sure if something like this can be done without Commodore's support. I'd like to see some discussion on this topic, in any event, and hopefully some comments from folks in the know at Commodore. -- Eric Giguere 268 Phillip St #CL-46 C'est un nom francais, bien sur Waterloo, Ontario N2L 6G9 Bitnet : GIGUERE at WATCSG (519) 746-6565 Internet: giguere@aries5.UWaterloo.ca "Nothing but urges from HELL!!"