billsey@agora.UUCP (Bill Seymour) (05/01/90)
In article <3399@baird.cs.strath.ac.uk> bsyme@cs.strath.ac.uk writes:
:OK, I've seen the A3000 at the Which? show - AND I WANT ONE!
:
: [Comments]
:
:Some questions:
:
:Is the 16MHz machine upgradable to the 25MHz specification, or is
:that major surgery?
From what I understand (and from the Byte pics...) the 68030
and 6888(1|2) are surface mount chips, soldered onto the motherboard.
You will *not* be able to upgrade from a slower machine to a faster
machine by replacing these! :-( The soldering/unsoldering skills involved
in replacing high pin count surface mount chips are beyond mortal man...
There are pieces of hardware out there that can do this type of repair,
but they're expensive and hard to find.
:Do the custom chips have full 32 bit data paths? I'd assume that if they do,
:then they are not the same ECS chips that we've seen in 2000's. And do they
:run at the higher clock speed? If all this is so, can we expect more than two
:bitplanes in "super-hires" mode? (4 colors would seem like a limitation in the
:workstation market - mind you, the Next is getting away with it.. well it was.
::-)
My understanding is that the custom chips are the same ECS as the
ones for the 2000. That means a 16 bit data path and the same 7.16MHz...
:When do we get a 40MHz version ;-)
Soon, I hope! (I'd also like more slots... The five slot limit in
the 2000 is always hitting home... I have a *lot* more than five expansion
cards, and would like to not have to tear my machine apart each time I need
to use a different setup.)
:<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
:<> Brian Syme <> Why make things difficult, when with just a <>
:<> bsyme@cs.strath.ac.uk <> little more effort you could make them <>
:<> <> impossible. <>
:<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
--
-Bill Seymour ...tektronix!reed!percival!agora!billsey
=============================================================================
Bejed, Inc. NES, Inc. Northwest Amiga Group At Home Sometimes
(503) 281-8153 (503) 246-9311 (503) 656-7393 BBS (503) 640-0842mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (Real Amigas have keyboard garages) Meyer) (05/03/90)
In article <3513@baird.cs.strath.ac.uk> bsyme@cs.strath.ac.uk (Brian J Syme IE88) writes:
If this is the case (and it seems probable) I should imagine C= or a 3rd party
will be in the add on high-spec video board market fairly soon (C= at least
already has a 8-bit beast I believe.) But what good is this to AmigaOS 2.0?
Would an entirely new graphics/layers.library be needed? Any info?
Given that I stumbled across a preferences selector that had "default
video" in it, I'd hope so. In fact, I hope that this means that adding
video cards is about like adding printers - you install the hardware,
copy the appropriate magic file to the appropriate magic directory,
then twiddle preferences to use the selection that you haven't seen
before.
And now for a hardware question: how much of the A3000 hardware is
tied to the clock rate? The cpu has to be, and I hope the memory is,
but how about the IO hardware, etc?
Or, from another perspective, what's the difference between the
A3000/25 and an A3000/16 with a 25MHz '030 in it?
Thanx,
<mike
--
The Sword of Damocles is hanging over my head Mike Meyer
And I've got a feeling someone's gonna be cuttin' the thread decwrl!mwm
Oh -- woe is me, My life is a misery mwm@relay.pa.dec.com
And all I can see is I'm on the start of a pretty big downerdaveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (05/04/90)
In article <MWM.90May2110230@raven.pa.dec.com> mwm@raven.pa.dec.com (Mike (Real Amigas have keyboard garages) Meyer) writes: >And now for a hardware question: how much of the A3000 hardware is >tied to the clock rate? The cpu has to be, and I hope the memory is, >but how about the IO hardware, etc? Most of the motherboard logic is pretty closely tied to either 16MHz or 25MHz, and possibly another factor or two (like ROM speed, for instance). Chips that need to know about clock speed have jumpers that tell them what speed they're working with. The memory controller, for instance, is very tightly coupled to the clock speed. This makes it quite efficient, but no-adjustable. The memory cycle changes between 16MHz and 25MHz systems, based on the different tradeoffs that occur based on clock speed vs. memory speed. Some motherboard timing (eg, for slower things) comes from the 7MHz clock, since we know that never changes. The expansion bus is CPU clock speed indepent. Zorro II cycles, of course, always run at 7.16MHz, and within limits, Buster (the bus controller) syncs Zorro II to the CPU bus speeds without caring about the CPU bus speed (it's very likely that Buster chip speed would become more of an issue at higher-than-25MHz rates than actual Buster chip logic design). The Zorro III bus is asynchronous and clock speed independent, though any given Zorro III bus controller (such as Buster) will likely use a clock or two for it's implementation of the Zorro III cycle (Buster, in fact, uses both the 25MHz CPU clock and a second motherboard clock that's delayed 90 degrees from this CPU clock). >Or, from another perspective, what's the difference between the >A3000/25 and an A3000/16 with a 25MHz '030 in it? An A3000/25 comes with a 25MHz 68030, a 25MHz 68882, and a 50MHz system basis clock. An A3000/16 comes with a 16MHz 68030, a 16MHz 68881, and a 32MHz system basis clock. That's the difference, and why it's possible for a Coprocessor card to supply a set of clocks for the motherboard as well as use the the motherboard supplied clocks. > <mike -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy "I have been given the freedom to do as I see fit" -REM
dailey@cpsin2.uucp (Chris Dailey) (05/06/90)
In article <2028@agora.UUCP> billsey@.UUCP (Bill Seymour) writes: >(I'd also like more slots... The five slot limit in >the 2000 is always hitting home... I have a *lot* more than five expansion >cards, and would like to not have to tear my machine apart each time I need >to use a different setup.) What sort of cards do you have? You won't need a card space for a flicker fixer or a SCSI interface, they're both built in on board. That leaves quite a few left. Also, if you have a BridgeBoard and a VGA card, it is my understanding that you wouldn't need it on the 3000. >:<> Brian Syme <> Why make things difficult, when with just a <> >:<> bsyme@cs.strath.ac.uk <> little more effort you could make them <> > -Bill Seymour ...tektronix!reed!percival!agora!billsey -- /~\ Chris Dailey (subliminal message: make WP5.1 for the Amiga) C oo dailey@cpsin1.cps.msu.edu ('finger' me. I dare ya.) _( ^) "I am thankful for one leg. To limp is no disgrace -- / ~\ I may not be number one, but I can still run the race." -from B.C.
jma@beach.cis.ufl.edu (John 'Vlad' Adams) (05/06/90)
In article <1990May5.200030.17439@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> dailey@cpsin2.uucp (Chris Dailey) writes: > Also, if you have a BridgeBoard and a VGA >card, it is my understanding that you wouldn't need it on the 3000. The 2088 and 2286 still output CGA screens. If you want VGA output for the bridgeboard, you need a VGA card on the AT/XT Bus. The 2286 would seem to be an unwise board to use in the 3000. In the second-from-the-bottom slot, the daughter board of the 2286 would block the second PC/AT slot. In the top PC/AT slot, the bridgeboard would block the video slot. You don't want to block the video slot obviously. And with the 2088T XT Turbo card being advertised along-side the 3000 articles (such as Amiga World), it would seem Commodore is hinting that IBM compatibility is via the 2088T. Of course, this is all my personal opinion without any solid backing from Commodore. > >>:<> Brian Syme <> Why make things difficult, when with just a <> >>:<> bsyme@cs.strath.ac.uk <> little more effort you could make them <> >> -Bill Seymour ...tektronix!reed!percival!agora!billsey >-- > /~\ Chris Dailey (subliminal message: make WP5.1 for the Amiga) > C oo dailey@cpsin1.cps.msu.edu ('finger' me. I dare ya.) > _( ^) "I am thankful for one leg. To limp is no disgrace -- >/ ~\ I may not be number one, but I can still run the race." -from B.C. -- John M. Adams --*-- Professional Student on the six-year plan! /// Internet: jma@beach.cis.ufl.edu -or- vladimir@maple.circa.ufl.edu /// "Houston, we have a negative on that orbit trajectory." Calvin & Hobbs \\V// Cosysop of BBS:42; Amiga BBS FIDOnet 1:3612/42. 904-438-4803 (Florida) \X/
billsey@agora.uucp (Bill Seymour) (05/28/90)
In article <1990May5.200030.17439@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu> dailey@cpsin2.uucp (Chris Dailey) writes: :In article <2028@agora.UUCP> billsey@.UUCP (Bill Seymour) writes: ::(I'd also like more slots... The five slot limit in ::the 2000 is always hitting home... I have a *lot* more than five expansion ::cards, and would like to not have to tear my machine apart each time I need ::to use a different setup.) : :What sort of cards do you have? You won't need a card space for a :flicker fixer or a SCSI interface, they're both built in on board. That :leaves quite a few left. Also, if you have a BridgeBoard and a VGA :card, it is my understanding that you wouldn't need it on the 3000. The built in flicker fixer only saves me space on the video buss, not on Zorro space and the Bridgeboard is still a viable card for the 3000, it's certainly not built in! Well, let's see, today I have a HD interface, a serial/parallel interface, a modem, a memory board and a bridgeboard. Two of those would go away in a 3000 (the HD interface and the memory board). I also have a network card (not installed... Today) and a multiport serial card (also not installed... Today) That brings me back to five slots filled on a 3000 that only has four slots... But I suppose it means I would only have a couple of different systems to work with, instead of four or five. :-( Note that although I said that I wouldn't need to put the memory board in the 3000, I can see where not too far down the road, a memory board would be nice... After all, if we can outgrow 512K and 2M, we can outgrow 18M... Right now, when I have the bridge installed, leaving me with only 7M, I *do* run low once in a while... Then I just pull the bridge and go to 9M... But I've found that my usage grows to fit the available space. :: -Bill Seymour ...tektronix!reed!percival!agora!billsey :-- : /~\ Chris Dailey (subliminal message: make WP5.1 for the Amiga) : C oo dailey@cpsin1.cps.msu.edu ('finger' me. I dare ya.) : _( ^) "I am thankful for one leg. To limp is no disgrace -- :/ ~\ I may not be number one, but I can still run the race." -from B.C. -Bill Seymour ...tektronix!reed!percival!agora!billsey ============================================================================= Bejed, Inc. NES, Inc. Northwest Amiga Group At Home Sometimes (503) 281-8153 (503) 246-9311 (503) 656-7393 BBS (503) 640-0842
jesup@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup) (05/29/90)
In article <1990May27.172139.13851@agora.uucp> billsey@.UUCP (Bill Seymour) writes: > The built in flicker fixer only saves me space on the video >buss, not on Zorro space and the Bridgeboard is still a viable card >for the 3000, it's certainly not built in! Remember, the video slot is in-line with a Zorro slot on the 3000. > Note that although I said that I wouldn't need to put the memory >board in the 3000, I can see where not too far down the road, a memory >board would be nice... After all, if we can outgrow 512K and 2M, we can >outgrow 18M... Right now, when I have the bridge installed, leaving me with >only 7M, I *do* run low once in a while... Then I just pull the bridge >and go to 9M... But I've found that my usage grows to fit the available >space. You can add memory via the "cpu" slot. It's even faster than Z-III memory (no bus xfer to worry about). -- Randell Jesup, Keeper of AmigaDos, Commodore Engineering. {uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!jesup, jesup@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com BIX: rjesup Common phrase heard at Amiga Devcon '89: "It's in there!"
swarren@convex.com (Steve Warren) (05/30/90)
In article <1990May27.172139.13851@agora.uucp> billsey@.UUCP (Bill Seymour) writes: > Note that although I said that I wouldn't need to put the memory >board in the 3000, I can see where not too far down the road, a memory >board would be nice... After all, if we can outgrow 512K and 2M, we can >outgrow 18M... Right now, when I have the bridge installed, leaving me with [...] Well, when you're ready for more memory, just drop in that 68040 card that Dave keeps dropping hints about with a 64-Mbyte daughter-card ;^). Naturally an '040 card deserves memory optimized for it, right? -- _. --Steve ._||__ DISCLAIMER: All opinions are my own. v\ *| ---------------------------------------------- V {uunet,sun}!convex!swarren; swarren@convex.COM