rhl@computing-maths.cardiff.ac.uk (Robert Hartill) (01/04/91)
Is there an equivalent program to MSH to use Amiga disks on a MS-DOS machine ? What I want to do is use kermit on a PC to transfer Amiga PD from our vax. My Amiga is not 'on-site' so it has to be via a PC. At the moment i'm using PC disks and MSH on my Amiga, but i'd like to cut-out the PC disks altogether. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: :: Robert Hartill, Dept Of Computing Mathematics, UWCC, Cardiff, UK. :: :: e-mail : rhl@cm.cf.ac.uk :: ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Thank heavens, the sun has gone in, and I don't have to go out and enjoy it. -Logan Pearsall Smith. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
daveh@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie) (01/05/91)
In article <1991Jan4.143703.18573@computing-maths.cardiff.ac.uk> rhl@computing-maths.cardiff.ac.uk (Robert Hartill) writes: >Is there an equivalent program to MSH to use Amiga disks on a MS-DOS machine ? >What I want to do is use kermit on a PC to transfer Amiga PD from our >vax. My Amiga is not 'on-site' so it has to be via a PC. No. There are two good reasons for this. First of all, most, if not all, PClones, are incapable of reading Amiga disks at the hardware level. While they use compatible low-level MFM formats, the Amiga always does full track read/write, while the standard PC is sector based. The Amiga can easily create equivalent sectors in software (yielding 9 physical sectors/track), rather than going sectorless (yielding 11 logical sectors/track). The PC can't deal with the lack of sectors. While it's possible that some PC somewhere does full track buffering and might allow Amiga disks to be read, I doubt it -- the whole PC industry tends to pick a single hardware level chip definition, whether for keyboard controller, floppy, hard disk, video, etc. and stick with it, clone it, etc. Which brings us to the second problem, that of device independence. All Amiga DOS level devices (DF0:, RAM:, etc.) are fully device independent. You can have a lower-level device driver and use the same file system over a large number of devices (like FFS does), or you can have a filesystem that's specific to a particular subsystem (like RAM:). MS-DOS, on the other hand, doesn't support true device independence. To read an Amiga disk as easily on an MS-DOS machine as MSH: does on an Amiga, you would need two new pieces of software. First of all, you'd need a device driver which makes your floppy disk drive read Amiga formatted disks, rather than MS-DOS disks. That's the analog of MSH's "messydisk.device". Then you would need a mountable filesystem for the Amiga disk format, the analog of "messyfilesystem". Far as I know, you could do this under OS/2, but not under MS-DOS, hardware permitting (which, as I mentioned above, is impossible on the average PC, if not all of them). If the underlying hardware supported it, you could possibly make like the "PCUtilities" under AmigaDOS, the Apple File Exchange thingy under MAC OS, or some of the "DOS2DOS" kind of things available for the Amiga, and write a dedicated program, rather than the more flexible device/filesystem, to read Amiga disks at the program, rather than OS, level. Unfortunately, the PC hardware is going to make this impossible. It may be possible to read Amiga disks with the emerging SCSI-based floppy drives. I don't know for sure, but it's typical of SCSI devices to do full track buffering, so if the programming model for these devices allows you to decode 11 sectors rather than 9, it should be possible. However, SCSI itself is very rare on MS-DOS machines these days, SCSI floppies are practically unheard of. >:: Robert Hartill, Dept Of Computing Mathematics, UWCC, Cardiff, UK. :: >:: e-mail : rhl@cm.cf.ac.uk :: -- Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests" {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy "Don't worry, 'bout a thing. 'Cause every little thing, gonna be alright" -Bob Marley
amiga-relay@ee.udel.edu (01/06/91)
From: fhwri%CONNCOLL.BITNET@cunyvm.cuny.edu
The best solution for you would be to buy CrossDOS (about $40 list), which
will let your Amiga read MS-DOS disks. I realize that that won't cut the PC
from your chain, but there's nothing that I know of that will allow a PC
to read Amiga disks. CrossDOS works like a champ.
--Rick Wrigley
fhwri@conncoll.bitnetpeterk@cbmger.UUCP (Peter Kittel GERMANY) (01/08/91)
In article <1991Jan4.143703.18573@computing-maths.cardiff.ac.uk> rhl@computing-maths.cardiff.ac.uk (Robert Hartill) writes: >Is there an equivalent program to MSH to use Amiga disks on a MS-DOS machine ? No, a typical PC floppy disk controller is physically unable to read (or write) Amiga format. -- Best regards, Dr. Peter Kittel // E-Mail to \\ Only my personal opinions... Commodore Frankfurt, Germany \X/ {uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!cbmger!peterk