ji@close.cs.columbia.edu (John Ioannidis) (03/08/90)
I ordered mine from EduCalc on monday 3/5, told them to ship it second day FedEx ($6.50), and the thing arrived today. It's ROM revision A (and according to a flyer that accompanied it, they already have revisions B, C and D out!). So, here are my first impressions: * It's the size of an HP-41 with card reader (in fact, I am using my old 41 carrying case to carry it around; the original carrying case is too tight, and I can fit the quick-reference booklet in the 41 case (remember when HP calculators came with quick-reference cards? Well, now they come with 80-page booklets!). * I really like the fact that HP opted for the "vertical" format that you can hold in one hand and use with the other (or with your thumb if it's long enough!). That's one of the reasons I wasn't very tempted to get a 28c/s. I really didn't like the fold-out keyboard. * The serial port was a good idea. HP finally realized that noone was going to buy a cassette or card storage device will all the cheap storage one gets from one's pc/workstation/mainframe/whatever. Now, if they only had the pinout in the manual... * It has roughly a gazillion and a half predefined functions. I'm sure I'll never use most of them, but it's good to have them around! * It's nice if you're into HP calculators (I've had an HP calculator since the days of the HP67; I couldn't possibly resist this one). Now, the things I didn't like: * The keys don't have the nice, positive tactile feedback the 41C and the 65 had, but they are better than the series 10 ones. I haven't really played with 28s a lot and I can't really compare them. * The display contrast is poor. One should be allowed to change both the intensity and the contrast, not some combined function thereof. It's not very visible in subdued lighting, but I guess I'll get used to it. * It feels too flimsy. I can flex the case by about four degrees without fear of cracking it. There is no way I would throw it accross the room (the way people threw around 25's) and not care if it hits a brick wall at 60mph! * The manuals don't have that classy look they had back in the days of the hp-65 and hp-67. They are just black-and-white manuals with the occasional blue line. Gone are the days of six-color manuals. They are also spiral-bound rather than the traditional HP binding. And a couple of minor gripes: * There is virtually no documentation on the serial port hardware. I'd hate to have to shell out an extra $60 for a cable that I can make myself. * to use it in Hex mode (which is what I'll be using it for most of the time), you need two keystrokes to enter hex digits ( <alpha> and the top row keys) and three to enter the base specifier (a lowercase h, d, o or b if you are inputting at a base different than the default). I hope one can redefine keys to be alpha-input keys, or write assembly-language programs that do that. Any takers? Overall, it's a cute little toy. Now, let's see those applications coming. /ji In-Real-Life: John "Heldenprogrammer" Ioannidis E-Mail-To: ji@cs.columbia.edu V-Mail-To: +1 212 854 5510 P-Mail-To: 450 Computer Science \n Columbia University \n New York, NY 10027
ge@kunivv1.sci.kun.nl (Ge' Weijers) (03/08/90)
ji@close.cs.columbia.edu (John Ioannidis) writes: >* The display contrast is poor. One should be allowed to change both >the intensity and the contrast, not some combined function thereof. >It's not very visible in subdued lighting, but I guess I'll get used >to it. So the combination of the ON key and one of the add/subtract keys is gone? >* It feels too flimsy. I can flex the case by about four degrees >without fear of cracking it. There is no way I would throw it accross >the room (the way people threw around 25's) and not care if it hits a >brick wall at 60mph! Flexible things are usually the hardest to damage. Perhaps the 'flimsyness' was designed in. I'd worry if the machine had an inflexible feel to it. >And a couple of minor gripes: >* There is virtually no documentation on the serial port hardware. I'd >hate to have to shell out an extra $60 for a cable that I can make >myself. Is it a standard plug? Perhaps the interface kit has to generate a negative voltage. It might have a MAX232 chip hidden somewhere (a MAX232 is a serial port line driver which generates the voltages needed on chip. Is there someone with a '48 out there who can shed a light? I don't own a PC or Mac, but I'd like to interface the thing anyway (after I get one, of course). Ge' Weijers Ge' Weijers Internet/UUCP: ge@cs.kun.nl Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science, (uunet.uu.net!cs.kun.nl!ge) University of Nijmegen, Toernooiveld 1 6525 ED Nijmegen, the Netherlands tel. +3180612483 (UTC-2)
sterling@cbmvax.commodore.com (Rick Sterling) (03/09/90)
In article <1157@kunivv1.sci.kun.nl> ge@kunivv1.sci.kun.nl (Ge' Weijers) writes: > ji@close.cs.columbia.edu (John Ioannidis) writes: > > >* The display contrast is poor. One should be allowed to change both > >the intensity and the contrast, not some combined function thereof. > >It's not very visible in subdued lighting, but I guess I'll get used > >to it. > > So the combination of the ON key and one of the add/subtract keys is gone? > No, the [ON] [+]<>[-] combination does adjust display viewing angle/contrast and I find the display very readable in moderate to high light levels.... a bit tougher to read in candlelight. ;-) > >* It feels too flimsy. I can flex the case by about four degrees > >without fear of cracking it. There is no way I would throw it accross > >the room (the way people threw around 25's) and not care if it hits a > >brick wall at 60mph! > > Flexible things are usually the hardest to damage. Perhaps the 'flimsyness' > was designed in. I'd worry if the machine had an inflexible feel to it. > I find the case design/quality seems a half-a-notch below usual HP standards ( or at least my expectations of HP quality ) but I wouldn't characterize it as being ``flimsy''. I have no doubt it will stand up to the usual abuse I give to my calculators. > >And a couple of minor gripes: > > >* There is virtually no documentation on the serial port hardware. I'd > >hate to have to shell out an extra $60 for a cable that I can make > >myself. > > Is it a standard plug? Perhaps the interface kit has to generate a negative > voltage. It might have a MAX232 chip hidden somewhere (a MAX232 is a serial > port line driver which generates the voltages needed on chip. Is there someone > with a '48 out there who can shed a light? I don't own a PC or Mac, but I'd > like to interface the thing anyway (after I get one, of course). > I called HP Service and get the following info... use it at your own risk! Pin Function RS-232 equiv 1 Chassis Ground pin 1 2 Txd pin 2 3 Rxd pin 3 4 Signal Ground pin 7 I jury-rigged up a ``connector'' and was ``online'' to the 48 in a couple minutes. This is a straight connector to connector interface. All transfers under KERMIT worked 100% first time. great stuff! for the curious: the other system is an Amiga running VLT. personal notes: 1> The manuals look like a real ``rush'' job. Plenty of typo's and poorly organized index. The paper stock leaves a lot to be desired. Hopefully I'll be able to replace them in six months with something more substantial. ( I'll probably HAVE to. ) 2> The example program WALK on pg. 598 can not be entered without SYNTAX ERROR. ( anybody have a clue why? ) It geeks at `ERASE { # 0d ...' ^ 3> quote from page 673... ``Products are sold on the basis of specifications applicable at the time of manufacture. Hewlett-Packard shall have no obligation to modify or update products, once sold.'' Fine... now where can I find the specifications? No reference to them in the index, not in the appendix either. 4> I love the ``cuckcoo clock'' alarm! ;-) Rick Sterling Commodore Technology Group (215)-431-9275 Test Engineering UUCP ...{uunet,allegra,rutgers}!cbmvax!sterling
sterling@cbmvax.commodore.com (Rick Sterling) (03/09/90)
In article <10069@cbmvax.commodore.com> sterling@cbmvax (Rick Sterling) writes: > 2> The example program WALK on pg. 598 can not be entered without SYNTAX > ERROR. ( anybody have a clue why? ) It geeks at `ERASE { # 0d ...' OK... from Jim Donnelly's submittal to the net today ( jimd@cv.hp.com ) we probably have the answer.. missing PROGRAM delimiters in the program listing on pg. 598 If you notice, there are 2 open program ( << ) delimiters and no close ( >> ) program delimiters in the manual's listing. ( this should have been a big clue! ;-) ) Rick Sterling Commodore Technology Group (215)-431-9275 Test Engineering UUCP ...{uunet,allegra,rutgers}!cbmvax!sterling
farber@linc.cis.upenn.edu (David Farber) (03/10/90)
In fact the manuals were so poorly done that mine is missing pages 414 to 449. Just the ones I wanted!!! Dave David Farber; Prof. of CIS and EE, U of Penn, Philadelphia, PA 19104-6389 Tele: 215-898-9508(off); 215-274-8292 (home); FAX: 215-274-8192; Cellular: 302-740- 1198 "The fundamental principle of science, the definition almost, is this: the sole test of the validity of any idea is experiment." -- R. P. Feynman
madler@tybalt.caltech.edu (Mark Adler) (03/11/90)
Actually, there are two problems with the WALK demo program on page 598.
First, there needs to be a << before ERASE (you get a syntax error because
{ is not a valid local name for ->). The missing << can actually be found
wandering around the bottom of the page after STEP. That << should
obviously not be typed in there.
The second problem is that there should be a GXOR before PICT ROT to
display the new image.
Upon fixing these two things, the program can be entered and works as
advertised. However, the checksum still doesn't match up. (The number
of bytes does though.)
For those who would like to know, here are the bugs in the various ROM
revisions:
DEFINE rounds numbers in user-defined functions if STD is not the current
display mode---affects only revision A.
Entering a symbolic complex number like '(A,<B)' (where < is really the
funny little angle symbol) meaning in polar form, gives an expression
in A and B that is wrong (the A and B are interchanged so A is the angle
and B is the magnitude)---affects revisions A, B, C, and D.
NXEQ from the Graphics Environment with flag -3 set (SYM off in Modes)
can overwite the current equation with a number.
KGET on a zero length file from another machine will CAUSE THE CALCULATOR
MEMORY TO BE CLEARED!---only in revision A.
If time display mode is set to 24 hours, then minutes are shown
incorrectly in the Alarm Catalog---only in revision A.
INV returns an incorrect result if used on an 8x8 or larger matrix---
affects revisions A, B, and C.
The fixes for most of these are from the Henny Youngman School of Medicine:
"Then don't do that!" That is, don't DEFINE if not in STD, don't enter
symbolic complex numbers in polar form, don't use NXEQ if in Numerical
Results mode, don't transfer zero length files into your calculator, and
don't use 24 hour mode when looking at the Alarm Catalog. For INV, there
is a pseudo-fix that divides the matrix into the identity matrix instead
of inverting it. It also tells you how to remap the 1/x key to call that
program instead of INV (the program uses INV if it's not a matrix). You
have to be in USER mode for this to work, however.
To the HP guys who pay attention to this newgroup: it would have been
enourmously clever, and therefore expected of HP, to have a copy of a
function dispatch table copied into RAM, so that just these sort of bugs
can be fixed by supplying new machine code that lives in user ram and
changing the entry in the dispatch table. So is this the case?
If not, then maybe there are hooks for library ROM's to replace built-in
functions?
In any case, the keyboard trick is not adequate since it does nothing for
programs with INV. I also wonder whether INV and dividing into an
identity matrix are numerically the same. I know that with most
scientific subroutine libraries, the inversion routine is much better
at inverting than the matrix divide routine. (Well, much better for
ill-conditioned matrices anyway.)
Despite the bugs in the ROM and the manual problems, I'm enourmously
impressed with this thing. I highly recommend it to anyone with the
slightest interest in such beasts and the money to blow on it. However,
try to get the latest ROM revision (E?) available whenever it is you
buy one.
Mark Adler
madler@hamlet.caltech.edudan@Apple.COM (Dan Allen) (03/12/90)
In article <1157@kunivv1.sci.kun.nl> ge@kunivv1.sci.kun.nl (Ge' Weijers) writes: > >>* The display contrast is poor. One should be allowed to change both >>the intensity and the contrast, not some combined function thereof. >>It's not very visible in subdued lighting, but I guess I'll get used >>to it. Are we talking about the same calculator? The 48 contrast is not as good as say, the HP-10B, but it is significantly better than an HP-42S or even a 28S. > >So the combination of the ON key and one of the add/subtract keys is gone? NO. The contrast is adjustable with the ON and plus or minus keys as always. > >>* It feels too flimsy. I can flex the case by about four degrees >>without fear of cracking it. There is no way I would throw it accross >>the room (the way people threw around 25's) and not care if it hits a >>brick wall at 60mph! On the contrary, it feels very sturdy. I would throw it across the room if needed. I have dropped it once or twice already (by accident) and have not had any problems. It is MUCH more sturdy than a 28S. >>* There is virtually no documentation on the serial port hardware. I'd A serial interface is a serial interface. What's to document? Just send bytes... For example, I was using the debugger to dump memory to the serial port at 9600 baud. I had no idea what I was doing, but all I did was run MacTerminal at 9600 baud and voila, I had the ROM image on my Mac as a text file... Now to get a disassembler running... Dan Allen Apple Computer
horlache@sun1.ruf.uni-freiburg.de (Ullrich Horlacher) (03/13/90)
madler@tybalt.caltech.edu (Mark Adler) writes: >Despite the bugs in the ROM and the manual problems, I'm enourmously >impressed with this thing. I highly recommend it to anyone with the >slightest interest in such beasts and the money to blow on it. However, >try to get the latest ROM revision (E?) available whenever it is you >buy one. I'm on the way to migrate from the 28 to the 48. Is the 48 revision A still sold? When should I buy the 48 to prevent getting a A version? Any suggestions? #---------------------------------------------------------------------# # this mail came from Framstag! (sometimes known as Ulli Horlacher) # # framstag@dtupev5a.bitnet ullrich.horlacher@ruf.uni-freiburg.dbp.de # # "Murphy was an optimist" # #---------------------------------------------------------------------#
hsu@eng.umd.edu (Dave "bd" Hsu) (03/15/90)
In article <10069@cbmvax.commodore.com> sterling@cbmvax (Rick Sterling) writes: >In article <1157@kunivv1.sci.kun.nl> ge@kunivv1.sci.kun.nl (Ge' Weijers) writes: >> ji@close.cs.columbia.edu (John Ioannidis) writes: >> >* It feels too flimsy. I can flex the case by about four degrees >> >without fear of cracking it. >> Flexible things are usually the hardest to damage. > I find the case design/quality seems a half-a-notch below usual HP > standards ( or at least my expectations of HP quality ) but I wouldn't > characterize it as being ``flimsy''. After a minor foul up in transcribing my credit card number, EduCalc finally got my 48SX out to me. I asked for second-day air, but it arrived overnight anyway! Flimsy is not a word to describe the case. It feels quite sturdy for a device of its size and shape. However, this may be the first HP I've seen whose keys protrude beyond the face of the device, and can be actuated by pressing the calculator against a flat surface. HP obviously noticed this long ago, and the ON key is noticeably shallower than the others. Kudos to the Mech E's who managed to pack so much into so little. Some of the procedures the manual recommends regarding plug-in cards are sure to give users the willies, namely the part about reconnecting merged memory with the calculator on. Is this really safe, when the caution four pages earlier warns that all of user memory could be erased? So far, this is a terrific device, but the EquationWriter does get bogged down displaying only modestly complicated equations. All these unlabeled right-shifts... -dave -- Dave Hsu Systems Research Center, Building 115 (301) 454 8867 hsu@eng.umd.edu The Maryversity of Uniland, College Park, MD 20742-3311 "I'm fishing. No I'm not, I'm newting!" - A. A. Milne
pd@sics.se (Per Danielsson) (03/18/90)
In article <1990Mar14.182912.981@eng.umd.edu>, hsu@eng (Dave "bd" Hsu) writes: >However, this may be the first >HP I've seen whose keys protrude beyond the face of the device, and >can be actuated by pressing the calculator against a flat surface. I must protest. My HP-67 definitely has its keys protruding beyond the face of the calculator. The face is slightly curved, however, so that it is impossible to press a key by placing the calculator upside down on a flat surface. (BTW: the 67 has the original 35-series case, with 35 keys). -- Per Danielsson pd@sics.se Swedish Institute of Computer Science, PO Box 1263, S-164 28 KISTA, SWEDEN
news@cc.ic.ac.uk (USENET News System) (03/19/90)
on the keyboard, the bottom two rows of keys touch the surface. The keyboard is curved, so not all of the keys will touch a flat surface, but all can be pressed. This did not matter though, as the HP-35, and subsequent models till the HP-41 and then the series 10 were all turned on with a sliding switch. All models since then have a 10-minute timeout (and the HP-28, HP-18 etc are protected by their own case), so there seems to be little risk of draining the batteries on any HP handheld, unless you position it so that the ON switch keeps getting pressed. In fact the older models were more of a risk, since the slide switches did not return to the off position by themselves. Should we start up a separate thread on batteries for HP handhelds again - has anuone got an HP48 with flat batteries yet? Wlodek Mier-Jedrzejowicz, Space Physics, Imperial College, London From: umapd51@suna.cc.ic.ac.uk (W.A.C. Mier-Jedrzejowicz) Path: suna!umapd51