alexw@mipos2.intel.com (Alex Witkowski) (08/13/90)
Yes, HP does have a promotion. The offer is a free Equation Library for anyone who purchases an HP48SX (or pays $25 for the Library and buys an HP28S ??) between August 15 and October 15 and sends in the coupon with receipt before November 15. Fry's Electronics in Sunnyvale has had the coupons for about a month, but they disapear quickly. I wonder also whether HP's motivation is to get rid of the D ROM's and start introducing E ROM's after the promotion. This is why I am not sure whether to take them up on the offer.
R3DLB%AKRONVM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (David Bartlett) (08/14/90)
I agree with Davin Yap. Why did HP give a promo this long after introducing the 48SX ? If I had known about a promo, I would have held off buying one until the promo. I want to get a equasion card, but $80+ is a little on the steep side for me after buying 48SX. Is HP going to do something for the people who have already purchased the 48SX ? (I.E. send in your receipt/proof of purchase, and maybe get a discount or a free card (I know this is too much to ask for)). We should HP a chance to prove it's caring for its customers. David Bartlett (r3dlb@vm1.cc.uakron.edu OR R3DLB@AKRONVM.BITNET) University of Akron Acknowledge-To: <R3DLB@AKRONVM>
frechett@snoopy.Colorado.EDU (Mac the Ripper/ / / /) (08/14/90)
In article <9008131714.AA20780@hercules.csl.sri.com> R3DLB%AKRONVM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (David Bartlett) writes: > >I agree with Davin Yap. > >Why did HP give a promo this long after introducing the 48SX ? I too agree. It is all the more frustrating because I bought my hp48 a little over a month ago. It is too late to retrun it and get a vers D rom and I am quite broke now anyway after having to replace my stolem bicycle before school starts. I was really thinking that I would like the equation card for school an now that I can't afford it, hp is giving them away. This does seem a bit screwy to me. I have great respect for the quality of hp products even with a few flaws, But my respect for their marketing strategy is wanning. Like a few other people here, I feel jipped. ian frechett frechett@snoopy.colorado.edu
dean@image.soe.clarkson.edu (Dean Swan) (08/14/90)
From article <9008131714.AA20780@hercules.csl.sri.com>, by R3DLB%AKRONVM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (David Bartlett):
> I agree with Davin Yap.
Add my name to the list of enraged customers. I love my 48SX (it follows
after my 32C, 33E, 34C, and 42S). Hows that for HP loyalty?
-Dean Swan
dean@sun.soe.clarkson.edusjthomas@cup.portal.com (Stephen J Thomas) (08/14/90)
I too would like to chime in with my 2 cents worth --- or should I say, $80
worth -- regarding the HP promo which gives away HP SOLVE Equation Library
Cards. I'm really getting angry with some of HP's dealings with its long-
time users. Here we rush out to support HP and get the rev A HP48SXs, and
then can't even get a straight answer (if ANY answer at all) about updating
ROMS. Then we plunk down $80 for the Equation Library card, only to find
out -- once we realize that nobody is going to use more than a few equations
found therein -- that HP is now going to give the d*mn thing away to others
who presumably must be enticed to buy an HP product!
I nearly scratched HP off my list when they ignored the HP75, and then killed
HP-IL. Now I'm ready to uncap my pen to do it.
Signed,
Pissed in El Paso
sjthomas@cup.portal.com (Stephen J Thomas)
'
P.S. I don't intend my angry comments to imply that the card is not a
wonder of programming. Eric Vogel & his crew did a great job in
designing this product, but I just don't see the market. Why spend
$80 or more when most of the equation HAVE to be in fields other than
one's own. OK, OK, it's for the minehunt game.
sjtscrutton@ac.dal.ca (08/14/90)
You bought the 48. No one made you do it. Being readers of c.s.h you surely heard about versionitis. But no, you couldn't wait. Well it appears a few of us have and maybe sales are slugging a bit so they put on an offer to get the steam up. A free $150 piece of plastic and silicon is not enough to entice me into buying a 48sx. I would love to have one but won't consider it until the ROMs have stabilized. My 28s will do until then. I'm not flaming current owners. I'm trying to tell HP something here. We don't mind paying for quality -- don't rush it; the 48 was a preme. Surely competitors are still well behind. PS: Will palmtops kill the calculator? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -Jeff Scrutton Technical University of Nova Scotia, Canada BITNET: scrutton@dalac Electrical engineering department INTERNET: scrutton@ac.dal.ca Programming, ant: the Turing test
ERSHC@CUNYVM (08/15/90)
Add another name to list of pissed HP lovers. I was lucky enough to
not be able to afford the 48sx until ROM D came out. I've had mine for 2
months now, and I'm very unhappy that I didn't wait. And to think that
I have considered leaving academia to work for them (as if they'd have me)!!
-------
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
eric schweitzer seek it with thimbles, seek it with care,
pursue it with forks and hope,
ershc@cunyvm.cuny.edu threaten its life with a railway-share,
@cunyvm.bitnet charm it with smiles and soap.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++mea1@uafhcx.uucp (Mark _E_ Amos) (08/15/90)
Congratulations, consumers - you have just taken part in what is popularly known as "field beta testing" with a twist: You PAID HP to test their product. Now that you've gotten the majority of the bugs discovered and hp has Rev D up with no "major" flaws, it's time to really begin genuine sales and promotions to the public. All you loyal hp fans out there have served a great purpose in the scheme of things, and you should be glad you paid for the priviledge... Just too bad I too dropped the cash for both the SX and the Eq. Lib card. I don't think the Rev E theory is true - I believe the above paragraph is closer to the truth, as I have seen this tactic before (the American auto makers have been at it for years), but never thought HP would lower themselves to this depth. This product, while arguably the greatest handheld to hit the market, will most likely be the LAST HP product I own unless they respond to this line of postings with a reasonable explanation and hopefully some restitution for those of us who have contributed significantly to their success in handhelds et. al. At this point someone will be inclined to tell us to quit whining and be glad it works so well for the money - but the issue here is the underhanded beta models that were intensionally put on the market for us hardcore nerds to buy up and find bugs, then not providing a ROM upgrade path, THEN taking the refined version to market with an "introductory" (ha!) promo that WE are entitled to! I held my tongue on the (nonexistent) ROM upgrade path but this is too much. It's not so much we didn't get our money's worth, but more the blatent underhandedness and slap in the face to us HP loyalists. My sentiments toward Corporate America are worsening by the hour, and with the loss of an old friend like HP to the fast buck mentality, I grieve all the more. Regretfully yours, mea1@uafhcx.uark.edu Computer Science Engineering
kevinc@tekig5.PEN.TEK.COM (Kevin E Cosgrove) (08/15/90)
In article <1854@ac.dal.ca> scrutton@ac.dal.ca writes: >You bought the 48. No one made you do it. Being readers of c.s.h >you surely heard about versionitis. But no, you couldn't wait. Like you I waited until I thought the ROM would have stablized. With the present pace of product development I'd venture to guess that there are no products with the amount of firmware as an HP 48SX that are completely bug free before there obsolete -- I doubt there will be in the forseable future. The trick is to buy something early enough that it's still a good value for the money, but late enough that it's going to be "clean". [stuff deleted] >I'm not flaming current owners. I'm trying to tell HP something here. >We don't mind paying for quality -- don't rush it; the 48 was a preme. >Surely competitors are still well behind. I can't agree with the 48 being a "preme". Have you ever been a "beta test site" for a product? If I remember some of the bugs and their versions correctly, version A was the only one with potentially fatal errors (e.g.: memory erased during backup when clock is running). >PS: Will palmtops kill the calculator? I already know of people who don't have use for a calculator -- they use math applications on PCs/Macs. I reminded a gentleman of that fact that as a student one can't take a PC to a test, but calculators are allowed. I would hope that HP is looking into porting a "virtual calculator" to a windowed computer environment. That would be very slick for me. I'd like to be able to up/down load to/from the real and "virtual" calculators as well. P.S.: Does anyone know if there are plans in the works to offer custom application cards? For instance I'd pick EE equations, units, constants, and periodic table stuff for my custom package. Yamaha offers custom voice ROM packs for their MIDI musical instruments. __________________________________________________________________________ Kevin Cosgrove bucket.UUCP!cathouse!kevinc OSU EE Senior tektronix!tessi!bucket!cathouse!kevinc (503)-297-6067 kevinc%cathouse.uucp@bucket.UUCP __________________________________________________________________________
Jake-S@cup.portal.com (Jake G Schwartz) (08/15/90)
Someone recently mentioned that HP released the HP48 "in a rush" so the publi could discover its bugs. On the contrary - so far all the bugs in versions A through D were discovered IN HOUSE. Bill Wickes explains pretty much the history of the ROM development and the bug list in his talk at the Chicago HP Handheld Users Conference. None of the the bugs are fatal. If only 7 or so bugs exist in 256K of ROM code, shouldn't that really be considered a sort of milestone in software development? They can't just start making chips in a frenzy, and if they discover a minor bug just scrap the whole mess and throw out the first umpteen thousand chips for the next revision. If they are to make any sort of schedule (and the machine was ALREADY several months late by all rumors that circulated last year) they've gotta ship what's done and fix the minor things along the way. Since none of these bugs so far discovered are "killers", the way HP went about it seems logical to me. Jake Schwartz
kaufman@delta.eecs.nwu.edu (Michael L. Kaufman) (08/15/90)
1) I too am upset up the promo. Does HP really think that any of us are going to run out and but any new HP products any more? I don't know about the rest of you, but I know that I am going to wait next time and see what happens. 2) The deal with older ROMS is, you call HP and get on the list. Then around the end of the year they send you a letter telling you where to send your 48sx. Then you send it in and get back a version E rom. The catch is that they are only doing this for revision A, B and C. The good part is that it is free. One nice thing and one bad. Oh well. Michael
kaufman@delta.eecs.nwu.edu (Michael L. Kaufman) (08/15/90)
In article <90226.152004ALC@psuvm.psu.edu> ALC@psuvm.psu.edu writes: >Why does HPs new promotions change that? I think that HP is making a mistake. We went out and payed for our calculators when they were new. That was good for HP. Think we are going to do that next time? Michael
kevinw@portia.Stanford.EDU (Kevin Rudd) (08/15/90)
I'm amazed! I just sent out my message and already HP is changing! Its too bad that there will be such a delay in upgrading ROMs but,... Maybe loyalty isn't dead---its just waiting for the right time to really surprise you! So, there's HOPE yet! Let's work on making loyalty and support the rule rather than the exception. -- Kevin
r91400@memqa.uucp (Michael C. Grant) (08/15/90)
In article <5088@uafhp.uark.edu>, mea1@uafhcx.uucp (Mark _E_ Amos) writes: > up and find bugs.. then not providing a ROM upgrade path, THEN taking the > refined version to market with an "introductory" (ha!) promo that WE are > entitled to! I held my tongue on the (nonexistent) ROM upgrade path but this > is too much. It's not so much we didn't get our money's worth, but more the > blatent underhandedness and slap in the face to us HP loyalists. I understand the grief about the new ROMs being unavailable to previous purchasers. That is a genuine beef in my opinion. But, this whining about not getting the 'introductory promotion' is ridiculous! Car companies have specials all the time, and nobody complains this vehemently when, two months after they bought their new car, the company jacks up the rebate a few hundred dollars because they're not selling enough of them! So, why should you feel entitled to get this 'promo' that they have decided will help them sell their new models? This same whining occurred when Amiga decided to start shipping extra memory with their computers and dropped their prices--everybody whined that they should get the free memory, too. Sorry, no dice. Amiga NEEDED to do something to boost sales, and perhaps so does HP. After all, it IS awfully expensive for a calculator, and I know that when I speak to freshmen I tell them NOT to waste their money on one without finding a SPECIFIC purpose for them. NeXT, who retrofitted all of the original NeXT purchasers with accelerator hard drives for free, and Chrysler, who 'guaranteed' that they will make up the difference if their rebates go up within the year, are exceptions to the rule which should be applauded. It is an innovative (and EXPENSIVE) practive, and those companies who don't practice it should not be criticized. Again, I understand that not being able to upgrade the ROMs is a big complaint. I'm not arguing that. But when a company offers a new free offer, or a new rebate, it's not backstabbing, it's business. Michael C. Grant
daver@ECE.ORST.EDU (Dave Rabinowitz) (08/16/90)
In article <9008131714.AA20780@hercules.csl.sri.com> R3DLB%AKRONVM@VM1.CC.UAKRON.EDU (David Bartlett) writes: >If I had known about a promo, I would have held off buying one This kind of posting occurs every time HP introduces anything new. For example, when the 28S was introduced there was a flurry of complaints by people who had recently purchased a 28C, and similarly in many other cases. HP learned a hard lesson many years ago when it first introduced the Series E calculators (3xE). Up to that time the Woodstock calculators (2x) were selling well but as soon as the new series was announced sales of those calculators dried up. Unfortunately, a problem with a vendor of a key component prevented HP from shipping the new calculators for almost a year, and the calculator division lost millions of dollars. The same situation, announcing a product before it could be shipped, put the Osborne Computer Company out of business. The one thing you can be sure of is that if you wait something new will come out. You have to decide whether the thing you're planning to purchase is worth the cost to you today, and if it is then buy it. Otherwise you'll never buy anything.
kaufman@delta.eecs.nwu.edu (Michael L. Kaufman) (08/17/90)
In article <32806@cup.portal.com> Jake-S@cup.portal.com (Jake G Schwartz) writes: >None of the the bugs are fatal. Except for the KGET bug. (FYI: If you try to KGET a zero length item from your PC, it trashes your memory.) Michael
rodmur@csuchico.edu (D.A. Harris) (08/17/90)
In article <5088@uafhp.uark.edu> mea1@uafhcx.uucp (Mark _E_ Amos) writes: > > > Congratulations, consumers - you have just taken part in what is popularly > known as "field beta testing" with a twist: You PAID HP to test their > product. Now that you've gotten the majority of the bugs discovered and hp > has Rev D up with no "major" flaws, it's time to really begin genuine sales > and promotions to the public. All you loyal hp fans out there have served a > great purpose in the scheme of things, and you should be glad you paid for > the priviledge... > >Just too bad I too dropped the cash for both the SX and the Eq. Lib card. I >don't think the Rev E theory is true - I believe the above paragraph is closer >to the truth, as I have seen this tactic before (the American auto makers have >been at it for years), but never thought HP would >lower themselves to this depth. This product, while arguably the greatest I think HP has always done this, just what do you think the 28C was except one big test. I rather felt burned when the 28S came out only a year later. So I really have no simpathy for any of you, all the corporations do this, it's life, face it, wake up and smell the roses, etc.,etc.,etc.,. One big blunder and they could face losing tens or even hundreds of millions, and that's not good in this day with everbody focused on short-term profits. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Dale A. Harris Chaotically Yours, rodmur@ecst.csuchico.edu __ __ _ , {Internet} / ) / ) ' ) / / / /--/ /--/ /__/ o / ( o / ( o
mike@DRD.Com (Mike Rovak) (08/17/90)
sjthomas@cup.portal.com (Stephen J Thomas) wrote: } I too would like to chime in with my 2 cents worth --- or should I say, $80 } worth -- regarding the HP promo which gives away HP SOLVE Equation Library } Cards. I'm really getting angry with some of HP's dealings with its long- } time users...[other stuff deleted] I was about to run out (like so many others) and get one when I discovered this newsgroup. You guys saved me a lot of heartache. I won't be buying ANYTHING until I see a ROM revision talked about for a few months with NO mention of bugs. HP -- I assume that your marketing folks must have been falling all over themselves to get this thing out the door. I am a software developer also, and I know from experience that this means WATCH OUT - USER BEWARE most of the time. Of course, it's a lot easier to replace a diskette than it is to tear apart a robot-assembled, soldered and sealed machine. If this kind of thing is expected to happen again, would it be too much trouble to design the calculator so that the ROM could be interchanged by the user? Guys like me wouldn't mind paying for a ROM upgrade to cover your costs, we'd be too ecstatic about being able to keep our machine current. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer: My opinions do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. ======================================================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------ mike@DRD.Com uunet!apctrc!drd!mike ========================================================================
daver@ECE.ORST.EDU (Dave Rabinowitz) (08/18/90)
In article <32806@cup.portal.com> Jake-S@cup.portal.com (Jake G Schwartz) writes: >.... .. ......... .. ........ ...........? They can't just start making >chips in a frenzy, and if they discover a minor bug just scrap the whole >mess and throw out the first umpteen thousand chips for the next revision. Actually HP has done this on several occasions. A classic situation was when the Series-C calculators were first being put into production. A problem was found with the ROM chips which caused them to incorrectly read a few locations under very rare power conditions. HP threw out several hundred thousand dollars worth of chips and delayed introduction a couple of months for that. The code for the 38C had a bug which wasn't found until the chip was in production. Those chips were thrown away. The key question is how much are customers willing to pay in increased prices to avoid MINOR bugs with workarounds? If the rev B-D ROMS had been discarded and introduction of the calculator postponed for a few months, guess where the money to do this would have had to have come from?