gchow@ipsa.reuter.com (george chow) (08/12/90)
I was down at the local dealer (Downtown Electronic on Yonge St) looking at the
48sx. Two things caught my attention:
o they now have the D-revision ROM
o they say that there is a promo starting August 15 whereby if you buy a
48sx, you get a coupon that you mail in to HP to get the Equation Library.
My question is: is there really a promo going on? I didn't hear anything about
it here on c.s.h. (Not that c.s.h is gospel or anything but I'd expect c.s.h
to be a bit more up-to-date than a local dealer.) Since today's only the 11th,
the dealer don't have the coupons yet. They `admonished' to buy the 48sx today
and come back in four days to pick up the coupon. Can anyone substantiate
the dealer? Does is sound plausible for HP to be giving away a $150 Equation
Library for a $350 calculator? BTW, if it matters, I'm in Canada (Toronto).davin@me.utoronto.ca (Davin Yap) (08/13/90)
In article <1990Aug12.023453.10030@ipsa.reuter.com> gchow@ipsa.reuter.com (george chow) writes: >I was down at the local dealer (Downtown Electronic on Yonge St) looking at the >48sx. > o they say that there is a promo starting August 15 whereby if you buy a > 48sx, you get a coupon that you mail in to HP to get the Equation Library. If this is true, I'm really going to be pissed off. I had one of the first 48's in Canada (3006A...); neglecting their most ethusiastic customers, those who rushed out and bought the first 28C, then the first 28S then the ... ...Well, it just doesn't seem right. Usually companies have introductory offers when they first announce a product, rewarding those that support the new product in its infancy, those that have enough faith in them, in their reputation, to trust that they will get it right the first time. I bought my calculator when I did largely because the name "Hewlett Packard" means something to me; with the controversy over the ROM revisions and now this... ...this slap in the face - I'm tempted to lump HP in with the other big, monolithic American companies with, "We don't care. We don't have too" attitudes. I realize that the equation library wasn't ready until recently, and that they probably want to attract the "back to school" market, but to neglect their strongest supporters... ...in the long term, this will hurt them. Certainly I'm not the only one who will share this sentiment. It looks like the marketing/accounting types have HP steered towards short term gains, but long term pain. I wonder how much their reputation is worth to them; I certainly won't be recommending HP products with the same conviction I had in the past. Playing these marketing games was something I thought was beneath HP, something that Radio Shack would do, nothing that gives me unwavering trust that I'm being dealt with fairly. If HP goes ahead with this coupon promo, while neglecting present 48 owners, the 48 will be the last HP calculator I'll buy. Potentially peeved beyond reconciliation, Davin -- Davin Yap, Center for Computer Integrated Engineering, University of Toronto davin@me.utoronto.ca davin@me.utoronto.bitnet | 5 King's College Rd., Toronto ...{pyramid,uunet}!utai!utme!davin | Ontario, CANADA, M5S 1A4
gchow@ipsa.reuter.com (george chow) (08/14/90)
In article <90Aug12.215445edt.19137@me.utoronto.ca> davin@me.utoronto.ca (Davin Yap) writes: >In article <1990Aug12.023453.10030@ipsa.reuter.com> gchow@ipsa.reuter.com (george chow) writes: > >>I was down at the local dealer (Downtown Electronic on Yonge St) looking at the >>48sx. > >> o they say that there is a promo starting August 15 whereby if you buy a >> 48sx, you get a coupon that you mail in to HP to get the Equation Library. > >If this is true, I'm really going to be pissed off. I had one of the >first 48's in Canada (3006A...); neglecting their most ethusiastic >customers, those who rushed out and bought the first 28C, then the first >28S then the ... So far, I've got confirmation from two people, one of them a salesman at the U of T St. George Campus Bookstore. The other is another HP48sx owner from UBC (my university). >...Well, it just doesn't seem right. Usually companies have introductory >offers when they first announce a product, rewarding those that support >the new product in its infancy, those that have enough faith in them, in >their reputation, to trust that they will get it right the first time. I >bought my calculator when I did largely because the name "Hewlett Packard" >means something to me; with the controversy over the ROM revisions and >now this... ...this slap in the face - I'm tempted to lump HP in with >the other big, monolithic American companies with, "We don't care. We >don't have too" attitudes. > > I realize that the equation library wasn't ready until recently, and >that they probably want to attract the "back to school" market, but to >neglect their strongest supporters... ...in the long term, this will >hurt them. Certainly I'm not the only one who will share this sentiment. >It looks like the marketing/accounting types have HP steered towards short >term gains, but long term pain. I wonder how much their reputation is >worth to them; I certainly won't be recommending HP products with the >same conviction I had in the past. Playing these marketing games was >something I thought was beneath HP, something that Radio Shack would do, >nothing that gives me unwavering trust that I'm being dealt with fairly. >If HP goes ahead with this coupon promo, while neglecting present 48 >owners, the 48 will be the last HP calculator I'll buy. I think the ``back to school'' market is what HP is aiming at. >Potentially peeved beyond reconciliation, > >Davin >-- >Davin Yap, Center for Computer Integrated Engineering, University of Toronto >davin@me.utoronto.ca davin@me.utoronto.bitnet | 5 King's College Rd., Toronto > ...{pyramid,uunet}!utai!utme!davin | Ontario, CANADA, M5S 1A4 George Chow
alonzo@microsoft.UUCP (Alonzo GARIEPY) (08/15/90)
davin@me.utoronto.ca (Davin Yap) writes: > If this is true, I'm really going to be pissed off. I had one of the > first 48's in Canada (3006A...); neglecting their most ethusiastic > customers, those who rushed out and bought the first 28C, then the first > 28S then the ... One pays for the privilege of strutting fashion (although you'll have to proffer something grander than your serial number to get our admiration). Those who need the calculator most will want it sooner and be willing to pay more. This is particularly important for a feature packed machine like the 48. Development cost is amortized in a way that maximizes sales. Ideally, the development of each feature is payed for by its users. Those who buy the heavily marked-up infrared printers are also paying for printer features built into the HP 48. Those who buy the heavily marked-up serial cable are paying for the I/O feature. Those who buy the heavily marked-up memory cards are paying for plug-in support. If you don't use any of these features, you pay for only a portion of the calculator's development. That is about as fair as you can get with something like the 48. > the controversy over the ROM revisions and now this. > I'm tempted to lump HP in with the other big, monolithic American companies. What controversy over the ROM? If you mean that it has bugs, let me tell you that all programs of the 48's complexity have bugs. If you have any problem with your ROM, talk to HP and they will offer you reasonable terms. There is no controversy (and HP *is* a big, monolithic American company)! > I realize that the equation library wasn't ready until recently, and > that they probably want to attract the "back to school" market, but to > neglect their strongest supporters... I used to go to the ballet *very* frequently when I was a student. It cost me $5 for the best seat in the house. Now it costs $75. Should I whine? Surely the strong supporters of the ballet are those who pay the $75. Alonzo Gariepy alonzo@microsoft
davin@me.utoronto.ca (Davin Yap) (08/15/90)
In article <56563@microsoft.UUCP> alonzo@microsoft.UUCP (Alonzo GARIEPY) writes:
[lots of points, that though true, are slightly off topic and hence deleted]
Now to the gist of the current discussion:
dy>> I realize that the equation library wasn't ready until recently, and
dy>> that they probably want to attract the "back to school" market, but to
dy>> neglect their strongest supporters...
ag> I used to go to the ballet *very* frequently when I was a student. It cost
ag> me $5 for the best seat in the house. Now it costs $75. Should I whine?
ag> Surely the strong supporters of the ballet are those who pay the $75.
How would you feel, if after buying your tickets to a performance of the
ballet, the company found itself with 1000 empty tickets, and decided to
give the thousand people who bought the remaining tickets (at the same
price), a free CD of the ballet that night? Myself, I'd be pretty
peeved. Would it not have been more fair to give the CDs to the _first_
thousand people who bought the tickets? Yes, for these truly are their
strongest supporters. I chose the CD example because it is of the same
relative worth to the ballet tickets as the equation library is to the 48SX,
not because this is likely to happen.
We can all squabble about marketing stategies, recovery of R&D cost
and profit margins until we're blue in the face. I'm not in that line of
business professionally, nor, do I imagine, is anyone taking part in this
discussion. While we can all string together coherent sentences,
rationalizing the (in)correctness of HP's promo offer, based solely on
the fact that we're all quite capable of logical thought, it needn't be
as complicated as that. It all boils down to something we all have in
common - the schoolyard. What HP has done is tantamount to a little boy
giving candy to some new kids, so that they'll be his friends, while
refusing to give any candy to his best friends. If my best friend did
that to me, I'd be pretty upset with him.
Small kids hold grudges; big kids hold big grudges; the earth is round.
Davindgr@hpfcso.HP.COM (Dave Roberts) (08/22/90)
Leading disclaimer: Although I work for HP, I don't work even near the guys who designed this calculator (we're talking states away) and I had nothing to do with either its pricing or development, and, for that matter, I don't even own one. I want to say that my response would be exacly the same if I worked for McDonalds. There, that should establish my non-bias on this, right... :-) davin@me.utoronto.ca (Davin Yap) writes: [ definitely human feelings of getting ripped off deleted ] > How would you feel, if after buying your tickets to a performance of the > ballet, the company found itself with 1000 empty tickets, and decided to > give the thousand people who bought the remaining tickets (at the same > price), a free CD of the ballet that night? Myself, I'd be pretty > peeved. Would it not have been more fair to give the CDs to the _first_ > thousand people who bought the tickets? Yes, for these truly are their > strongest supporters. I chose the CD example because it is of the same > relative worth to the ballet tickets as the equation library is to the 48SX, > not because this is likely to happen. I'd feel kind of ripped off. But... Why do theaters have student discounts? It isn't because they love students so much. The truth is, they probably wouldn't sell the seats if they didn't have a catch to bring in more people. Same thing with senior discounts. Same thing with anything that comes out and is initially expensive that later goes on sale. > We can all squabble about marketing stategies, recovery of R&D cost > and profit margins until we're blue in the face. I'm not in that line of > business professionally, nor, do I imagine, is anyone taking part in this > discussion. While we can all string together coherent sentences, > rationalizing the (in)correctness of HP's promo offer, based solely on > the fact that we're all quite capable of logical thought, it needn't be > as complicated as that. It all boils down to something we all have in > common - the schoolyard. What HP has done is tantamount to a little boy > giving candy to some new kids, so that they'll be his friends, while > refusing to give any candy to his best friends. If my best friend did > that to me, I'd be pretty upset with him. Right, we can squabble 'till we're blue, but I don't think we have to. I am in this business professionally (engineering that is), but I still don't get too ticked off. It happens all the time, to me, to you in many other places, and to everybody else. Do you get this bent out of shape when you miss a department store sale because you bought the exact same item two months earlier? I don't. Those are the breaks. I mean, it's a bummer, but what would you have anybody do about it? How often have you, when something neat initially comes out, said, "Well, I want one, but I'll wait a month 'till it goes on sale."? > Small kids hold grudges; big kids hold big grudges; the earth is round. Big kids either wait for sales or don't get jacked out of shape when they miss them. > Davin > ---------- Dave Roberts Hewlett-Packard Co. Workstation Group Ft. Collins, CO dgr@hpfcla.fc.hp.com