[comp.sys.handhelds] HP48SX questions

kenr@nstar.UUCP (Ken Rawlings) (03/06/90)

Ok, I too have just sunk $300 in to one of these baby's. I sure hope
it's as awesome as everyone says. 
 
I have two questions I hope someone may be able to provide information
on.
 
#1: There is supposedly a hardware I/O port on the 48SX, into which
you can plug a RS232C cable(HP82208A). You can order this without
any software(Opt. 1AW). Does this mean that there is NO special format
and i'll have no problem transferring data to and from my amiga?(i.e.
no special software needed besides Kermit)  Also, since this cable is
probably going to be really pricey, can anyone comment on the 
feasibility of making your own cable?
 
#2: Will it be possible to program the 48SX in assembly language? If
so, is there an assembler built in? Where can I obtain information 
regarding how? 
 
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
kenr@nstar             Ken Rawlings       
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

prestonb@hpcvra.CV.HP.COM (Preston Brown) (03/08/90)

 
>There is supposedly a hardware I/O port on the 48SX, into which
>you can plug a RS232C cable(HP82208A). You can order this without
>any software(Opt. 1AW). Does this mean that there is NO special format
>and i'll have no problem transferring data to and from my amiga?(i.e.
>no special software needed besides Kermit) 
 
Kermit is all you need.  In fact, buying the cable alone is the best
option for the amiga (the DOS programs included with PC-LINK wonldn't
work anyway).  I believe the cable lists for $35.

Preston

cain@hpfcdj.HP.COM (Gary Cain) (03/14/90)

/ hpfcdj:comp.sys.handhelds / prestonb@hpcvra.CV.HP.COM (Preston Brown) /  1:22 pm  Mar  7, 1990 /
 
>>There is supposedly a hardware I/O port on the 48SX, into which
>>you can plug a RS232C cable(HP82208A). You can order this without
>>any software(Opt. 1AW). Does this mean that there is NO special format
>>and i'll have no problem transferring data to and from my amiga?(i.e.
>>no special software needed besides Kermit) 
> 
>Kermit is all you need.  In fact, buying the cable alone is the best
>option for the amiga (the DOS programs included with PC-LINK wonldn't
>work anyway).  I believe the cable lists for $35.

So what exactly does the software do other than Kermit transferrs?

1. Can you display graphic on the larger PC screen, or would you transfer the 
   data and have the a program on the PC display it?

2. Are the programs transferred in ASCII so that you can use a full keyboard
   and text editor to enter in long programs and then move them to the HP-48sx?


Gary Cain

Jake-S@cup.portal.com (Jake G Schwartz) (03/18/90)

Having found an additional HP48 feature that is an improvement over the HP28,
and for those who are just joining the fray, here's the improvement list
revisited:
 
 
                    HP48 Improvements over the HP28S  
                    (A rough list in no special order)
 
 
1. I/O - Via serial cable-  1200, 2400, 4800 or 9600 baud. 
2. I/O - Built-in Kermit protocol for objector directory transfer to and
         from computers.
3. LCD - 8 lines by 22 characters, 64 by 131 dots.
4. Expandibility - 2 ports for plug-in RAM, ROM or OTP cards
5. I/O - 2-way infrared at 2400 baud. HP48 to HP48 comm. Other units IR
         output to HP48 via software included in HP82208/HP82209 Serial 
         Interface Kit.
6. Keyboard - Single vertical-format keyboard. Hold in one hand and press
         keys with the other.
7. Size - Narrower; easier to hold than the HP28, taller; approximately
         the size of HP41 with card reader attached.
8. LCD - A bit easier to read than HP28 (bluish on yellowish)
9. Keyboard - ALPHA on same keyboard like HP41.
10. Keyboard - 2 shift keys - 3 functions per key plus 3 ALPHA functions
         per key (with most ALPHA shifted not shown)
11. Keyboard - 15 common trig, log and exponentials on primary keyboard.
12. Keyboard - Left-shifted functions SWAP, DROP and GRAPH may be accessed 
         from the keyboard as primary unshifted functions in "normal" stack 
         mode.
13. General - 20 object types versus 11 in HP28S.
14. Documentation - 850-plus page user manual, quick reference guide
         included with reference manual in the works.
15. General - Several messages and prompts to aid the user.
16. Memory - 32K RAM, 256K ROM built in.  Add up to 256K of RAM or ROM
         via plug-in cards. Max RAM is 288K.
17. Memory - RAM cards have battery backup with HP48 alerting user if
         battery is low.
18. Memory - User can archive object, directory contents or whole machine
         onto RAM card(s).
19. CPU - Saturn chip, 2 MHz, throughput approx. 50 percent higher than
         28S according to HP.
20. Keyboard - "Last" functions: Command, Stack, Arg, Menu       
                         versus  Command, Undo, Last  on HP28
21. General - Interactive stack editor mode for manually manipulating and 
         viewing the stack.
22. General - Equation Writer mode - Interactive graphic algebraic equation
         entry, with connection to the RULES menu (equivalent to HP28 FORM 
         menu).
23. General - Interactive matrix editor mode - allows editing matrices in
         a spreadsheet-like environment.
24. Statistics - Best curve fit of Linear, Log, Exponential, Power fits in-
         cluded.
25. General - "REVIEW" mode for equations, variables, etc.
26. General - Rectangular to Polar conversion with 2-dimensional OR
         3-dimensional vectors. 3D polar works in spherical or
         cylindrical coordinates.
27. General - Complex number entry may be either rectilinear like the 28S 
         using parentheses, or polar like the 42S with the range and angle 
         on same line.
28. General - Decimal to fraction conversion via ->Q, ->Q#
29. General - Sigma notation (in equation writer mode) and execution.
30. General - "Where" function. ("f(x) where x equals....)
31. General - ARRY->, STR->, LIST-> replaced by OBJ-> function.
32. General - BYTES functions lists size and checksum of objects.
33. Units mode - Better than HP28... all units accessible via menus with
         instant conversions by one button press.
34. Units mode - New UNITS object type attaches units to value for better
         manipulation in stack, algebraics, programs, etc.
35. Time - Clock, calendar, appointments built in.  Appointment calendar
         program available in HP Serial Interface Kit.  Stopwatch 
         functionality available through HP Serial Interface Kit.
36. Time - Alarm catalog mode for editing and reviewing.
37. General - TAGGED object type for labelled output.
38. General - DIRECTORY object type for aiding in moving whole
         directories through RAM.
39. General - GRAD angular mode in addition to DEG and RAD.
40. General - Objects of like type may be organized for review or formed
         into separate lists.
41. Solver - REVIEW and edit capability of all equations at a glance.
42. General - Increment and Decrement real objects capability added.
43. Solver, Plotter - EDEQ ("edit equation") added for direct equation
         editing.
44. General - Implied multiplication allowed in equation writer mode.
45. Solver - Equation catalog maintained.
46. Solver - SOLVR menu may be customized to include other types of
         functions frequently used in conjunction with the equation. 
47. Solver - Multiple equations may be "linked" in the solver environment
         for solution together.
48. Menus - When a menu key is a pointer to a submenu, the key label
         contains an extra horizontal bar of dots above it as a visual
         reminder.
49. Solver - In the SOLVR menu, the keys have 3 functions: (1)Pressing
         the key enters the value into that variable from the stack;
         (2)Pressing left shift and key label solves for that variable;
         (3)Pressing right shift and key label recalls the variable's
         value to the stack.
50. Integration - Addition of symbolic integration by pattern matching
         for many integrands besides polynomials.
51. Menus - In the RULES (old HP28 FORM) menus, several functions have
         shifted positions to add to functionality.
52. Time - alarms are of two types: (1)Appointment and (2)Control alarms
         like that on the HP41.
53. LCD - In upper annunciator area, the full path to the current RAM
         subdirectory is always displayed.
54. Menu - In spite of LCD being 6 dot columns narrower, HP48 does a
         better job to fit 5 chars in menu labels than the HP28.
55. Menu - In VAR (RAM) menus, each key has 3 functions: (1)pressing
         primary key causes object to be evaluated; (2) pressing the
         right shifted key causes value of object to be recalled to the
         stack; (3) pressing the left shifted key causes storage of stack
         level 1 into the object.
56. Flags - 64 user and 64 system flags versus 30/34 for HP28S.
57. Flags - RCLF/STOF works with a LIST of 1 or 2 binary numbers for
         system or both system and user-flag review.
58. Menu - The MENU function accepts value of 0 to 59 rather than only 1
         to 24 for HP28S. Plus, adding a decimal fractional value dictates 
         which PAGE of menu should be displayed (e.g.  33.1 MENU takes you 
         to menu 33, first page).
59. Menu - Temporary menu ("TMENU") is a temporary custom menu that may
         be created and used for a short time, after which the regular
         CST (custom) menu returns active.
60. General - Programmable OFF command added. If encountered in a program,
         the unit autostarts at the step immediately following the OFF step
         when turned back on.
61. Printing - Compatibility with both HP82240B and HP82240A infrared
         printers. ("OLDPRT" maps HP48 chars into old printer char set.)
62. Printing - Printing is possible to the serial port for serial 80-column 
         printers.  Graphics objects may be printed to Epson-compatible
         printers with software in the HP Serial Interface Kit.
63. I/O - ARCHIVE/RESTORE allows all of calculator RAM to be
         saved/restored to/from a PC.
64. I/O - Low-level serial I/O commands available for other I/O use.
65. Memory - RAM card battery may be changed while plugged into HP48 so
         contents are not erased.
66. Memory - RAM cards have a Read Only/ Read-Write switch to protect
         contents if necessary.
67. Memory - Backup objects may reside in Port 0 (main RAM), or Port 1 or
         2 (RAM cards).
68. Units - All units of the HP28S are included plus HA (hectares) and 25
         additional commonly used compound units (such as cm, mm, ft^2,
         etc).
69. LCD - A menu is ALWAYS up, in addition to 4 lines for the stack.
70. LCD - At top is a two-line status area, plus annunciators above that.
71. Graphics - Any number of equations may be plotted simultaneously via
         an input LIST of plot equations.
72. Graphics - User may easily ZOOM in on an existing plot.
73. Graphics - Plot area may be larger than the screen, in a virtual
         graphics memory area whose size is limited only by available RAM.
         (One bit per pixel is used for storage.) Real-time scrolling of
         the graphic image in the display may be done via the cursor keys.
74. Graphics - both graphics and text may coexist in memory and user can
         switch back and forth between them.
75. Graphics - several plot capabilities - CONIC, TRUTH, PARAMETRIC, BAR,
         FUNCTION, SCATTER, HISTOGRAM and POLAR plots available.
76. Graphics - Interactive graphics mode - for drawing boxes, lines,
         points, arcs, etc.
77. LCD - Time and date may be in the display at all times if desired.
78. Graphics - capability to turn on or off any pixel, as well as to test
         state of a pixel, OR, XOR pixels.
79. Graphics - new GRAPHICS object type added.
80. Graphics - System flag -30 allows optional plotting of both sides of
         an equation at the same time.
81. Graphics - Move cursor near an intersection, press ISECT and the
         coordinates of point are computed and displayed.
82. Graphics - Move cursor near a root, press ROOT and coordinates of
         root of the function is computed and displayed.
83. Solver - The solver variables may contain unit objects.
84. LCD - DISP function accepts a line number of 1 through 7, leaving the
         menu line unaffected.
85. LCD - FREEZE function allows freezing specific areas of the display
         during program execution.
86. LCD - INPUT command prompts for input during a halted program with
         several display options.  Stack is protected; ENTER continues
         program execution.
87. Keyboard - Key assignments are possible on the HP48, with up to 6
         assignments per key (primary, left-shifted, right-shifted,
         ALPHA, left-shifted ALPHA, right-shifted ALPHA).
88. Keyboard - While keys are assigned, the unassigned keys may
         optionally have their standard functions disabled.
89. Custom Menu - "CST" is the custom menu reserved object name. A 
         different CST object may exist in each and every subdirectory 
         in RAM.
90. Custom Menu - The custom menu key labels may be optionally designated
         to be different from the names of the objects that the keys
         evaluate.
91. Custom Menu - The custom menu keys may each have up to 3 functions
         (Primary, left-shifted and right-shifted functions), although
         only the primary function would be labelled in the display.
92. Keyboard - Multiple custom menus are possible in any subdirectory
         while having the currently desired custom menu object named CST.
93. Keyboard - several functions exist on the right-shifted keyboard of
         the HP48 which are not labelled, such as CRDIR on the
         blue-shifted PURGE key.
94. Keyboard - The HP48 contains slots inside the outer plastic edges of
         the keyboard to hold a keyboard overlay.
95. Keyboard - The lower-case ALPHA letters are accessable via the
         left-shifted ALPHA keys.
96. Keyboard - Both numbers and letters are active simultaneously on the
         primary ALPHA keyboard without shifts.
97. Keyboard - The {, [, (, and << keys have become {}, [], () and <<>>
         keys, placing both symbols into the display along with the
         insert cursor in between so no unpaired delimiters are
         accidentally created.
98. Keyboard - The cursor keys are dedicated primary key functions, which
         are accessible at all times.
99. General - "UP" and "HOME" functions on dedicated keys allow movement
         in user RAM subdirectories with greater ease.
100. Menu - In addition to NEXT and PREV functions, the right-shifted PREV
         moves the user to the first page of the current menu.
101. Programming - DBUG function automaticaly starts a program object
         running and halts it at the first step for SSTing.
102. Programming - SST| function allows SSTing through subroutine objects
         called inside of a single-stepped program.
103. Programming - Addition of the CASE construct - as a multiple-way
         branch based on specific logical conditions.
104. Programming - The editor environment allows optionally placing whole
         control structures into a program in one key press. For example,
         in the editor pressing IF places IF in the program, but pressing
         right-shifted IF places IF/THEN/ELSE/END on four consecutive
         lines and leaves the insert cursor just to the right of the IF
         word.
105. Programming - In the SST/DBUG mode, pressing the top-row menu key 
         labelled "NEXT" causes the next 1 or 2 program objects to be 
         previewed in the status area without executing them.
106. Programming - PROMPT function halts a running program and displays a
         message. The stack may be manipulated at this point, and
         pressing CONT resumes program execution.
107. Programming - the WAIT function, in addition to instructing the HP48
         to suspend a program for an amount of time in seconds, may also
         optionally be used to wait until a key is pressed on the
         keyboard, returning the keycode.
108. Programming - DOERR function allows a user-defined error condition
         to be created so as to be trapped by the IFERR construct.
109. I/O - Graphics objects which have been sent to a PC may be converted
         to TIFF (Tag Image File Format) format for displaying on the 
         screen or incorporating into other PC documents via software 
         supplied in the HP Serial Interface Kit.
110. Graphics - Text may be added to the graphics picture at the user-
         specified coordinates in any of three text sizes (menu label size, 
         orignal HP28 size and new HP48 stack size). Characters may be 
         ORed with existing picture, XORed with the picture, overwrite 
         it, etc.
111. Graphics - Graphic objects may be placed onto other graphics objects
         at the user-specified coordinates via the REPL, GOR, GXOR functions.
112. General - A substring or sublist may be substituted into another string 
         or list at the user-specified position via the REPL function.
113. General - Revised RND function which rounds value in stack level 2 ac-
         cording to digit number is level 1. New TRNC function truncates the
         value in level 2 similarly to RND.
114. General - User-defined functions may be defined algebraically and stored
         via the new DEFINE function.  This is equivalent to defining using
         the program structure which takes arguments from the stack and places
         them into temporary variables with the "->" command.
115. Menu - New RCLMENU function returns the number corresponding to the
         current page of the currently displayed menu (see item 58 above).
116. Graphics - After selecting an X-axis display range, the new function
         AUTO will evaluate the current equation at 40 equally spaced x 
         values in the X range and choose an appropriage Y axis scale.
117. Graphics - The new DRAW function will draw lines between plotted points
         on the graph.
118. Graphics - One may have the graphics cursor (in the manual graphics
         environment) alternately be always dark, or to be dark on a light
         background or light when over a dark background.
119. General - When entering a matrix into the command line (as opposed to
         the Matrix Writer), after entering the first line and stepping past 
         the inside closing row delimiter, no more delimiters are needed. 
         The delimiters are all added automatically when all data has been 
         entered and ENTER has been pressed.
120. Graphics - Graphics objects may be printed to the HP82240 printer.  
         Those objects which are wider than 166 columns across are printed 
         in sections separated by a dashed line.
121. Display - Individual numbers in the stack are displayed with commas sep-
         arating every three digits. 
122. Programming - When entering a program, the left- or right-shifted ENTER
         key enters a DUP into the program. 

folta@tove.cs.umd.edu (Wayne Folta) (09/11/90)

I played with a HP-48SX for about 15 minutes today, and I have a couple of
questions (I did not have access to a manual):

1. Can it be locked in alpha entry mode? (I think I did it once, but otherwise
   it always shifted out of alpha after one character). And can it be locked
   in lowercase alpha?

2. Is the user interface slow? I was struck by how slow it was to drop items
   from the stack and to delete the previous character with the back-arrow
   key. But then maybe I had it in a weird mode that slowed it down.

3. It seems to have calendar functions. Could it be used as a mini-Wizard to
   keep track of a few dates and phone numbers? Can you set alarms that
   beep (even if the calculator is off) to grab your attention?

4. Does the serial interface software (for the Mac) include any value added
   over a simple kermit program?

5. I saw it mentioned somewhere that you could print nicer graphs on the Mac,
   from the HP. Is this literally true, in that you literally get better
   (more detailed, etc.) graphs, or does it simply mean that you can print
   the same graphs to a nicer printer?

6. It says you can add your own measurement units. Are they treated exactly
   like built-in units in terms of power and usage? (If they don't have them,
   I'd like to add points, picas, and other printing units, among others.)

7. Last, I wore the wrong shirt, so I couldn't tell... Can it fit in a 
   ANSI-standard shirt pocket :-), or at least a Land's End shirt pocket?

Thanks.
--


Wayne Folta          (folta@cs.umd.edu  128.8.128.8)

frechett@boulder.Colorado.EDU (-=Runaway Daemon=-) (09/11/90)

In article <26470@mimsy.umd.edu> folta@tove.cs.umd.edu (Wayne Folta) writes:
>I played with a HP-48SX for about 15 minutes today, and I have a couple of
>questions (I did not have access to a manual):
>1. Can it be locked in alpha entry mode? (I think I did it once, but otherwise
>   it always shifted out of alpha after one character). And can it be locked
>   in lowercase alpha?

It can be locked into the alpha mode by pressing alpha twice.  One more to
unlock it.  As for locking it in lowerase.  When it is locked in uppercase, 
just press left-shift alpha and it will change to lowercase until you turn it 
off.  

>2. Is the user interface slow? I was struck by how slow it was to drop items
>   from the stack and to delete the previous character with the back-arrow
>   key. But then maybe I had it in a weird mode that slowed it down.

The user interface CAN be slow.  Depends on what mode you are in and what 
is happening with memory and stuff.  Just playing with mine right now,
stuff can be taken off the stack very quickly.  And my backspace is 
quick.  What I have found is that repeated keypresses are much faster than 
holding a key down.  I don't know why they did this but I suppose there
are reasons.  As someone mentioned a long time ago, I think I would be 
happy to give up the equation writer for faster editting speed in the 
program entry mode.  The Equation writer is horribly slow.  

>3. It seems to have calendar functions. Could it be used as a mini-Wizard to
>   keep track of a few dates and phone numbers? Can you set alarms that
>   beep (even if the calculator is off) to grab your attention?

Yes, alarms can be set to do ANYTHING.  I was playing around and made an
alarm that would play part of the 1812 overture.  ;)  You can set alarms to 
keep the clock set precisely, and a host of other interesting things.  I have a
phone number program that is pretty basic.  I would love to see a better
version
but so far have not come across one yet. 

>4. Does the serial interface software (for the Mac) include any value added
>   over a simple kermit program?

From, what I have heard, there is nothing really special that comes with the
serial cable kit.  I said screw the $45-$50 for a cable and made one myself.  
I made a nice cable that I would suspect is easily as good as the one HP makes.
Just curious, anyone with the hp cable, can you hang your calc from the cable
without worrying about it?  ;)


>5. I saw it mentioned somewhere that you could print nicer graphs on the Mac,
>   from the HP. Is this literally true, in that you literally get better
>   (more detailed, etc.) graphs, or does it simply mean that you can print
>   the same graphs to a nicer printer?

No idea, sorry... he he he

>6. It says you can add your own measurement units. Are they treated exactly
>   like built-in units in terms of power and usage? (If they don't have them,
>   I'd like to add points, picas, and other printing units, among others.)

Yes, they can be made to be treated the same way that the built in ones are.  
I use the unit stuff alot.  It is possible to make up some pretty wild ones.

>7. Last, I wore the wrong shirt, so I couldn't tell... Can it fit in a 
>   ANSI-standard shirt pocket :-), or at least a Land's End shirt pocket?

I suppose that if you don't mind leaning to the side a bit.  It is not 
heavy per-se, but rather awkward... Not recomended for pockets.  I keep it
in my pack but have noticed recently that it has been getting turned on by
itself.  I am trying to figure out something that I can put in the case that
will keep it from coming on, but also not scar up the face of the machine.  


>Thanks.
>--
>
>
>Wayne Folta          (folta@cs.umd.edu  128.8.128.8)

	ian

--

-=Runaway Daemon=-

billkatt@mondo.engin.umich.edu (Steve Bollinger) (09/11/90)

In article <26470@mimsy.umd.edu>, folta@tove.cs.umd.edu (Wayne Folta) writes:
> 
> I played with a HP-48SX for about 15 minutes today, and I have a couple of
> questions (I did not have access to a manual):
> 
> 4. Does the serial interface software (for the Mac) include any value added
>    over a simple kermit program?
> 
Barely.  It has a program to convert pictures you download from the HP48SX (any screen shot
and then some) into a PICT on the clipboard and vice-versa.

-Steve

davidp@skat.usc.edu (David Peterson) (09/12/90)

The mac serial interface kit comes with a program to convert GROB's
into bitmap (paint) objects and paste them onto the clipboard and also
take bitmaps on the clipboard and convert them into GROB's

There is also a screen font that corresponds to the 48's font. Lets
you do editing with a mac directly (none of \<< or \->) then tranfer
it the to 48 with a 0 translation code (speeds up transfers a little).

No, its not worth the extra money, but if you can get some one else to
pay for the thing it is.

-dave.

whbst@unix.cis.pitt.edu (William H Broadley) (09/13/90)

Does anyone still have the bug sheet for the revision D model?  It already
expired here.
	Also How does one tell which revision the ROM is?  I have played with
one but didn't see anything on the calculator or the box that said anything.
	I need the calculator to keep time accurately is that a problem in the
D revision model.  To kick the clock once a day isn't acceptable should I
wait for the next revision?
				Thanks,
				Whbst@unix.cis.pitt.edu