heller.umass-cs@udel-relay.arpa (04/15/83)
From: Robert (LISPer DM)Heller <heller.umass-cs@udel-relay.arpa>
,
Cc: Jerry E. Pournelle <POURNE@mit-mc>r.umass-cs@UDel-Relay>
Ben Goldfarb <Goldfarb.ucf-cs@rand-relay>, Heller@umass-cs
Via: UMASS-CS; 15 Apr 83 22:19-EST
Me & Media Research's co-founder, Ephraim Robbins, recently
bought a Sage II (68000 at 8Mhz., 512K bytes RAM, 2 dsdd/80 track
5.25" disks (640K bytes each)). The machine is very nice. The only
problem is the operating system: p-System. I, over the past few
days, have discovered many things about this operating system which I
loathe:
1) The screen editor is very difficult to use with its
various modes (insert, delete, etc.), and its idea that lines begin
with non-blank characters is a brain-damaged `feature'. (It is an
extream hassle to insert a comment starting at column 1 at the
beginning of a file whose first line is indented.) It is also slow
and has an incredibly stupid screen update algorithm.
2) The macro assembler for the 68000 won't handle 32-bit
constants, which means I will have to enter in the assembler from Dr.
Dobb's Journal (#72 & #73), which is coded in PDP-11 FORTRAN. I need
the ability to use 32-bit constants for pointer field masks for the
LISP interpreter I am writing.
3) The command system, especially the filer, is too verbose
and excessively nursemaiding (asks you if you want to update the
directory, if you really want to clobber a file by transfering a new
one over it, etc.).
Robert Heller
(Media Research, Ltd.)
Arpanet address:
Heller.UMass-CS@Udel-Relay
cc: Sage Computer TechnologyPOURNE@mit-mc.arpa (04/22/83)
From: Jerry E. Pournelle <POURNE@mit-mc.arpa> welcome to the joys of UCSD P system and Softech...
mason (05/01/83)
Do you really think that or are you just trying to get some discussion going
in this newsgroup?
At least the p-System gives you a decent editor and a language for your
money, unlike CP/M. In these days of revolution in the hardware available,
it is nice to have a *completely* portable operating system.
I have used CP/M enough to write a bootstrap, and a few other things, and
I am not very impressed. Somebody's going to say that I should buy a great[sic]
editor like Wordstar. I have used a couple of these, and again am not impressed
Everything on the p-System is nice: the assemblers (8080 & Z80 & etc)
the Pascal, the concurrency, the editor.
If I could get a decent Unix (for my Z80) it would be a different story,
but the current alternatives leave no real choice but the p-System!
- Dave Mason ...decvax!utzoo!utcsrgv!mason
p.s. Asbestos gloves nearby.bernie (05/02/83)
Having used a wide range of microcomputer operating systems over the years, I can safely say that *neither* CP/M nor the UCSD P-system are particularly good for the sorts of things I like to do. The main advantage of CP/M is that there is a lot of third-party software for it, and some of it is quite good. The portability of the UCSD P-system is interesting, but unless you switch machines fairly often (which most people don't) it doesn't buy you much. So what operating system do I recommend? It depends on what processor you're using. On Z-80 systems, I have yet to find anything that beats LDOS (from Logical Systems Inc.; if anyone's curious I can dig up their address). For 8086's, my vote goes to MSDOS 2.0 (Which has some startlingly Unix-like features). For 6809's, the choice seems to be Flex (though OS-9 is a tempting choice as well). For 68K's and 16K's, the clear choice is Unix (or some close variant on it). Now for trademark crap : CP/M is a trademark of Digital Research UCSD P-system is a trademark of the Regents of U of California LDOS is a trademark of Logical Systems Inc. MSDOS is a trademark of Microsoft Flex is a trademark of Technical Systems Consultants OS-9 is a trademark of Microware Whew! --Bernie Roehl ...decvax!watmath!watarts!bernie
ee163ht (05/03/83)
I agree with Dave, although I must admit I am biased. I think the p-System has problems, but I still think it is one of the best PORTABLE operating systems for MICROS. How many other operating systems can be completely portable to so many microcomputers? How many other micro operating systems are as easy to learn and self-prompting? Think about the other so-called standard operating systems for micros. CP/M, Apple Dos, etc. I also don't think much of wordstar and there are even features in the Pascal editor I'd like to see in vi. (Of course, we have a much extended version resembling Richard Kaufmann's ASE editor). There is no comparison to old relics like CP/M with its cryptic commands. Allyn Fratkin UC San Diego
MDP@su-score.arpa (05/07/83)
From: Mike Peeler <MDP@su-score.arpa> From: Tony <Li@rutgers.arpa> The next time that you can write a program on the p-System in Fortran, Assembler, and blessed Pascal, and link them together, and get them to WORK together, let me know. Waitaminnit! It may be the case, as someone else has claimed, that the p-System's ForTran and Basic have bugs, but they do exist, and one thing is sure: they generate p-code instead of native code, which guarantees inter-language compatibility. I have also linked in assembler routines with success... Regards, Mike Peeler -------