Jake-S@cup.portal.com (Jake G Schwartz) (02/02/91)
This is for Joe Horn, Derek Nickel and any others out there who are dabbling in the "underworld" of HP48 internals. The version of Derek's Voyager that I have (1.0-1 from Las Vegas) contains a dump of the HP48 version B ROMS. In order for the serious developer to be certain that his code runs on all versions A to E of the machine, it might be wise to provide dumps of ALL FIVE versions fo the HP48 ROMS. I'm sure that nobody owns all 5 versions his or herself, but perhaps it would be prudent if ultimately we collected all these dumps and provided them with the Voyager package??? (This begs the converse of the most ofter-asked question on this group: "How do I know that the code I have will run on the version of the ROMs tha I own?") At some point, it might be wise to find out which routines that exist in our collective HP48 address list are in different places for different ROM versions. I know Rick Grevelle has a routine that searches ROM for all entry points to RPL prefixed code. At the very least, if this routine was run on all 5 versions, we could compare the output address lists to see if any of these entry points have moved. Perhaps these are in the list of rumored "Protected Addresses" which HP plans to leave alone. Jake Schwartz
jmorriso@fs1.ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison) (02/05/91)
I disagree. There is absolutely no reason to have ROM dumps of all the versions, nor any reason to write software that is downward compatible with the A, B, and C ROMS. HP has a generous upgrade policy for those versions, so only a few die-hards should be left with the old ones. All that is needed is good programming style. Keep in mind that CHIP has been reasonably well behaved, and has been upward compatible (so far). It is non-obvious that this should be the case for a low-level program. I think a well written program will remain compatible to all versions. Besides, I have an E versoin ROM anyways!
frechett@spot.Colorado.EDU (-=Runaway Daemon=-) (02/05/91)
In article <1510@fs1.ee.ubc.ca> jmorriso@fs1.ee.ubc.ca (John Paul Morrison) writes:
=+I disagree. There is absolutely no reason to have ROM dumps of all the
=+versions, nor any reason to write software that is downward compatible
=+with the A, B, and C ROMS. HP has a generous upgrade policy for those
=+versions, so only a few die-hards should be left with the old ones.
This simply is not true. There are thousands of A B and C machines out there
where the owners haven't a clue that their hp has bugs. Remember, that we as
users of usenet have a distinct advantage in that we get information from
various sources all over the world and in the case of the hp48sx we get
information directly from HP. I see how many uninformed people there are
every time I show one of my demos to a fellow hp48sx owner. Out of the dozens
of hp48sx owners on this campus, I can say (with a margin of 2) that there
are only 2 who read comp.sys.handhelds. Most of the people that I see, don't
have sub-directories. For me, that is just increadible (I have prolly over 30)
but it is more common than not.
The moral is, don't EVER forget that most of the world doesn't have usenet and
the masses of information that comes with it.
BTW, just to be clear about this, the ONLY ways that one can find out that
they can upgrade their hps is via only a couple sources.
1. They found a bug that hurt bad, and called hp Tech Support and were told
that they could upgrade.
2. Word of mouth. I have told a number of people. (more than 10)
3. Usenet
Nobody was sent a notice saying that they could or should upgrade from hp.
=+
=+All that is needed is good programming style. Keep in mind that CHIP has
This is true for some things BUT if there really is a differnce between the
various versions internally then how is one to know what is a "good" programmin
style. Machine language doesn't always lend itself to the obvious approach or
the correct approach.
=+been reasonably well behaved, and has been upward compatible (so far).
=+It is non-obvious that this should be the case for a low-level program.
=+I think a well written program will remain compatible to all versions.
=+
=+Besides, I have an E versoin ROM anyways!
I have not dealt with STAR and the other compilers much so far but I can see
the need for downward compatiblity. People are going to be discovering what
their expensive calculators can do for years to come.
ian
--
-=Runaway Daemon=-akcs.dnickel@hpcvbbs.UUCP (Derek S. Nickel) (02/05/91)
Jake,
If you or someone else wants to send me a memory scanner dump of other
revs, let me know and I will include it...
Derek S. Nickelakcs.joehorn@hpcvbbs.UUCP (Joseph K. Horn) (02/05/91)
Derek: The EduCALC Goodies Disk #2 (the Voyager disk) will only have your rev B "HP48.MEM" file on it, mostly because there's only room on a floppy for one such file (half a megabyte!), and also partially because all those comments in HP48.CA that you so painstakingly collected are based on your rev B, and it would be imprudent to assume that they all apply as-is to other revs. Instructions are included on the disk, for those interested, on how to spend the half hour it takes to make their own HP48.MEM file. [-jkh-]
zimmer@calvin.stanford.edu (Andrew Zimmerman) (02/05/91)
In article <27ae5b1f:1925.2comp.sys.handhelds;1@hpcvbbs.UUCP> akcs.joehorn@hpcvbbs.UUCP (Joseph K. Horn) writes: >Derek: The EduCALC Goodies Disk #2 (the Voyager disk) will only have your >rev B "HP48.MEM" file on it, mostly because there's only room on a floppy While I would agree that a user should be able to backup a ROM card, I have to disagree with what the Voyager disk is doing. I would assume the the rev B "HP48.MEM" file is a memory scan of an HP48 rev B. I would guess that it is illegal to distribute a binary image of a program. How is distibuting the memory scan of a HP48sx any different then distibuting an executable for lotus 1-2-3 or the ROMS for a Macintosh computer. All a person needs is the program xhp48sx that simulates the saturn instruction set under Xwindows, and wallah, they have a great calculator! Andrew zimmer@calvin.stanford.edu
akcs.joehorn@hpcvbbs.UUCP (Joseph K. Horn) (02/07/91)
Andrew Zimmerman asks about the legality of distributing a hexdump of the HP 48SX rev B operating system with every copy of Voyager. Due to personal discussions with some persons whose opinions I trust, it had not even occurred to me that it would be a problem. Silly me. At your suggestion, I am checking with HP about this. It would seem, as you say, to be quite illegal, since the ON-D/DROP/EVAL screen says "Copyright HP 1989". But, as you know, all you need in order to legally copy a copyrighted item is the permission of the copyright holder. If such permission cannot be obtained, Voyager will be disseminated without the SX OS hex dump, but with instructions of how to produce your own, from your own HP 48. It only takes half an hour at 9600 baud. Thanx for bringing this potential nightmare to our attention! Joseph K. Horn -- Peripheral Vision, Ltd.