U46837@UICVM.uic.edu (02/20/91)
I'm planning on going to the handhelds conference in early August. I'll
get there a week and pick through HP's garbage cans for a week.
If questioned, I can always say I'm looking for aluminum cans (people do that
in Chicago, we don't have a real recycling program yet). Maybe I can chain
a bunch together to make a parallel-processing machine. :-)
Anyone hear about Jaguar yet. I hear that it's HP's answer to the POQET PC.
I hope that it has scientific functions, a backlit VGA screen, a 386 microP,
4MB ram, and Windows OS in rom, all for under $700.
Sincerely, EUG <u46837@uicvm>
PS: I've had too much coffee already.umapd51@cc.ic.ac.uk (W.A.C. Mier-Jedrzejowicz) (02/24/91)
EGU suggests he'll wander around Corvallis before the conference starts, in August, looking for garbage dumps with HP48s. Why don't we allocate a block to each attendee who comes a day early - that way our coverage will be much more thorough - each attendee can check all the dumps etc in just one block ;-) How about a prize to the person who brings in the most old HP48s? Should we disallow HP employees from this competition? Seriously folks, when I was in Corvallis and asked about returned broken calculators of the newer type (cannot be opened), I was told they break these apart and recycle what they can. The outside plastic cover can be melted down for reuse, some components (large capacitors and inductors?) can be reused, and the gold can be stripped off the circuit boards. So, it is not ALL wasted. I think our concern is that perfectly usable HP48s are suffering the same treatment, just because their owners want the latest version. Maybe HP or EduCalc could find a use for them. In the UK, for example, the HP-28Cs they could not sell when the HP-28S was introduced went to some schools. Now the pupils from those schools are at college and are buying HP48s, so that looks like a smart move in the long run. Wlodek Mier-Jedrzejowicz, Space & Atmospheric Physics, Imperial College, London
jsims@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (J. Robert Sims) (02/27/91)
Ray Depew says that since the calculators that are being returned are being returned on the pretense that they are defective, they are worthless. To the contrary, those defective calculators are not worthless. Granted, they are not worth what a brand new Rev. E is worth, but they still have some value. There are many thrift shops who only sell "defective" merchandise. The merchandise is heavily discounted, but still brings in money for the company (in almost all cases should at least cover material costs). Whether HP decides that they can make more money by destroying or donating the calcs is up to the marketing department; don't flame the netters for a logical assumption. A car with a dent in it is still worth almost the same as a car with no dent. (I paid for a car without dents, and HP is now fixing the dent). HP wasn't legally obligated to replace the calculators, but since they are, I'm going to get rid of my archive bug. I can live with the bug (it has cost me hours of work, though), but if I don't have to, why should I? Rob jsims@vuse.vanderbilt.edu
rrd@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Ray Depew) (03/02/91)
In comp.sys.handhelds, jsims@vuse.vanderbilt.edu (J. Robert Sims) writes: > Ray Depew says that since the calculators that are being returned are being > returned on the pretense that they are defective, they are worthless. To the > contrary, those defective calculators are not worthless. I knew you were going to say that. In fact, they still work fine, don't they? > Granted, they are > not worth what a brand new Rev. E is worth, but they still have some value. > There are many thrift shops who only sell "defective" merchandise. The > merchandise is heavily discounted, but still brings in money for the company > (in almost all cases should at least cover material costs). Whether HP > decides that they can make more money by destroying or donating the calcs > is up to the marketing department; don't flame the netters for a logical ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > assumption. ^^^^^^^^^^ I'm sorry, but that's the part that has me riled. Where is the logical assumption? I don't want to read more into what "the netters" are thinking than is really there, but what I saw was this: a) someone posted that HP is throwing away all the returned 48's. b) someone jokingly suggested that an expedition be staged at the Corvallis dump to recover them. c) someone (Wlodek?) more seriously suggested that the returned calculators could be donated to schools and other deserving institutions. d) several people in other postings have expressed shock and dismay that HP would just destroy or dispose of the returned 48's, and expressed interest in buying them at a discount. Okay so far? So the _obvious_ logical assumption, and presumably the one you refer to, is that HP would still want to get some mileage out of these used, defective 48's by selling them at a discount somewhere, or donating them to schools. HP's not in the business of selling "factory seconds" at a discount (except to employees). And despite the accusations that have been made on the net, HP doesn't screw their customers by knowingly selling defective merchandise as defect-free. > A car with a dent in it is still worth almost the same as a > car with no dent. (I paid for a car without dents, and HP is now fixing > the dent). And a used car with a dent isn't worth the dealer's time to fix. BTW, um... how many miles did you drive it before you got the dent fixed? How long did you drive the car before deciding the dent was worth getting fixed? > HP wasn't legally obligated to replace the calculators, but > since they are, I'm going to get rid of my archive bug. I can live with > the bug (it has cost me hours of work, though), but if I don't have to, > why should I? Like I said, if the bugs really have bitten you, and they seriously impact your work, then by all means get the machine replaced. What I object to is the people who haven't been bitten badly by the bugs, and never will, and yet they send their calculators in anyway just to get the latest ROM Rev. I don't care if the vendor is HP or TI or Casio, anybody sitting on the outside can see that the vendor is getting systematically *screwed* by these people. Most of the postings on this subject have been on how to convince HP that you really deserve a new calculator. It reminds me of all those "How to get out of a traffic ticket when you know they got you dead to rights" articles you see in _Car_and_Driver_! Sure, it can be done. And you can get away with it. All you have to do is buy into the "logical assumptions" outlined in the article. Doesn't anybody have any integrity anymore? If not, then what about common sense? Or have we all turned into a bunch of grabby people, anxious to "do it to others before they do it to you?" Like I said before, if HP has an unsold, unused stock of old Rev. 48's, it may be worthwhile for them to donate them to an underfunded school somewhere. But regarding warranty returns, remember this: *you* told HP your calculator was defective, so HP threw it away for you. Learn to live with it. -- Ray Disclaimer: Somebody in Corvallis is reading this and saying "Is that Depew posting again? Oh, no! Can't somebody shut him up?"
bob@dolores.Stanford.EDU (Bob Lodenkamper) (03/02/91)
In article <7360085@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> rrd@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Ray Depew) writes:
Like I said, if the bugs really have bitten you, and they seriously impact
your work, then by all means get the machine replaced. What I object to is
the people who haven't been bitten badly by the bugs, and never
will, and yet they send their calculators in anyway just to get the
latest ROM Rev. I don't care if the vendor is HP or TI or Casio,
anybody sitting on the outside can see that the vendor is getting
systematically *screwed* by these people. Most of the postings on
this subject have been on how to convince HP that you really
deserve a new calculator.
Doesn't anybody have any integrity anymore? If not, then what
about common sense? Or have we all turned into a bunch of grabby
people, anxious to "do it to others before they do it to you?"
Not me! (in response to last rhetorical question above :-) I don't
claim to know whether or not the bugs in my former rev A would have
bent my life seriously out of shape or not (I'm no fortuneteller), but
that's not the main reason why I upgraded to rev E. The reason is
simply that my previous calculator was the 28C. I was most displeased
when significantly less than a year after I got the 28C HP introduced
the 28S, which is the 28C done right - i.e. with a useful amount of
memory. The bloody thing (28S) even cost the same as the C!! I'm
sure this is an old topic, from before my time on the net, but I
really had thought that since HP was selling the 28C that it wouldn't
be crippled. I was wrong. So we have tit for tat, all's even, and
I'm prepared to be most reasonable (and patient!) when HP's next
interesting handheld comes out.
- Bobkaufman@delta.eecs.nwu.edu (Michael L. Kaufman) (03/03/91)
In article <7360085@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM> rrd@hpfcso.FC.HP.COM (Ray Depew) writes: >Like I said, if the bugs really have bitten you, and they seriously impact >your work, then by all means get the machine replaced. What I object to is >the people who haven't been bitten badly by the bugs, and never will, and yet >they send their calculators in anyway just to get the latest ROM Rev. I am one of the people who has never been bitten by a bug, and yes, I sent back my 48 for the latest version. I did it because I use my calculator for all sorts of different things, and a year or so down the line, I didn't want to have to remember what bugs existed. For example, I don't do anything with polar coordinates now, but I may start in a year. Is it my job to remember which bugs exist, or should I get the most bug-free machine I can get? >I don't care if the vendor is HP or TI or Casio, anybody sitting on the >outside can see that the vendor is getting systematically *screwed* by these >people. Most of the postings on this subject have been on how to convince HP >that you really deserve a new calculator. I don't understand this. How is HP being screwed? They released a machine with some bugs in it. They also intentionally sold the machine with known bugs. We know that this is true since my revision B had a sheet that talked about the bugs in later revisions. You might say that the early buyers were the ones that were screwed. I wouldn't say this because HP is trading up, but how is HP being screwed when people take them up on their offer? And I understand why people try to convince HP. Should they wait until some work is meesed up, or upgrade now while the offer stands? >It reminds me of all those "How to get out of a traffic ticket when you know >they got you dead to rights" articles you see in _Car_and_Driver_! This anology I do not understand. Someone who is cought speeding has done someting wrong, and he does something else wrong to get out of it. What is the thing that the consumer has done wrong that he is trying to get out of? Michael -- Michael Kaufman | I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on kaufman | fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in @eecs.nwu.edu | the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be | lost in time - like tears in rain. Time to die. Roy Batty
jamesv@hplsla.HP.COM (James Vasil) (03/04/91)
> From the discussion in c.s.h, it sounds like HP has been more than fair with > everyone who wanted an upgrade (I didn't say "courteous," I said "fair"). Although I am obviously biased somewhat by where I work[1], I strongly agree with this. Consider the level of quality difference between the software problem you are getting your calculator upgraded for, and the general level of software quality out there in the real world. Does Microsoft give you a free version of DOS every time they fix known problems?? Of Windows? How about your WordPerfect?? Occasionally, yes. But in general their response is: "yes, we know about that problem and it will be fixed in the next release WHICH YOU CAN BUY IF YOU WANT TO." OK, how many of you who have sent in your calculator for "repair" would have done so if HP had charged $50 for the upgrade???[2] James (Rev D owner who's NOT upgrading) Vasil [1] Not really as much as you might think. I personally know no one at the division that makes calculators. And while I hope they do their part to make HP a profitable company, it's really not something I think about too much. [2] On the other hand, it is things like this free replacement that contribute to HP's reputation for quality. (I *said* I was biased :-) DISCLAIMER: All comments reflect my personal opinion ONLY and are not those of the corporation.
frechett@spot.Colorado.EDU (-=Runaway Daemon=-) (03/04/91)
In article <18440002@hplsla.HP.COM> jamesv@hplsla.HP.COM (James Vasil) writes: >next release WHICH YOU CAN BUY IF YOU WANT TO." OK, how many of you >who have sent in your calculator for "repair" would have done so if HP >had charged $50 for the upgrade???[2] Interesting question, but considering what I have put into the calc already, I would have to say YES. I would pay $50 to upgrade the calc and I might end up paying that or more when the Rev. F comes out. I plan to have the latest version, because the more recent, the more open my options are. ian -=Runaway Daemon=-
robertm@eecs.cs.pdx.edu (Robert D. Mohr) (03/07/91)
I am a revision A owner who has run into the bugs several times already. How do I go about upgrading to this version E. Is there a form to send in to HP? Any help would be appreciated.