howard@lysator.liu.se (MindWalker) (04/05/91)
Well, since we've embarked on a discussion of everyones favorite HP-48SX replacement, I thought I'd add my $2*10^-2. The dream machine, to me, would be something the size of an 48SX, but with no keys. Right, _no_ keys. Instead, replace everything with a large LCD touch sensitive display. This would be totally software and application configurable, tailored to suit everyones personal taste. At least four ports with cards made from from a _single_ slab of silicon, preferably multilayer (like a circuit board). Now we're talking packing density. Each card would hold it's own CPU, 512kB [EP]ROM, 512kB of memory (for applications), or > 1 MB of memory (for memory cards). The "calculator" (hmm, a new term is going to be needed. Pity notebook is already used), would hold one or several CPUs and the OS. The cards would communicate with the main CPU(s) via a message system. Attached to the side of the "calculator" would be a "pen", which would be used for menu selections, or writing in text. The text would be written in by writing with the pen, as normal, though possibly with the limitation of a letter at a time. Text could also be entered via a keyboard displayed on the LCD and using the pen to select the keys. The LCD ought to be colour, preferably with a higher DPI rate than the LCD of the 48SX, to allow suitable presentation of results and menus. Now, the internal software might include all the standard HP-48SX stuff, with suitable improvements, or it could come clean, the HP-48SX functions being on a math card, and when you bought the calc you got a card of your choice with it. Business, pure math, EE oriented, CS oriented, etc. Quite a few possibilities. Standard RS-232C port, preferably with another connector, IR port, high speed port for add ons, such as HD, or local networking with other calcs or computers. An expansion box to allow more than just the four basic cards (this would perhaps be slotted into one of the card slots). Does this sound interesting? What is _your_ idea of the Dream Machine, the as-close-to-as-possible perfect calculator (or rather personal handheld computer)? With a keen eye towards the future... /mvH -- Programming isn't a science, | Foo: howard@lysator.liu.se it's an art. | Bar: d89marho@odalix.ida.liu.se Why is it called common sense, | Fubar: Martin_Howard:d89:lith@xns.liu.se when so few possess it ? | Voice: Int +46 (0)13 261 283 (GMT + 1h)
jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (John H. Kim) (04/06/91)
In article <559@lysator.liu.se> howard@lysator.liu.se (MindWalker) writes: > >The dream machine, to me, would be something the size of an 48SX, but with >no keys. Right, _no_ keys. Instead, replace everything with a large LCD >touch sensitive display. ... Attached to the side of the >"calculator" would be a "pen", which would be used for menu selections, >or writing in text. The text would be written in by writing with the pen, I think there's already something like this in the works, although I don't remember what company is doing it. It uses handwriting recognition software much as you suggest. I saw it in a presentation on computers in the field on cable's Mind Extension University-- caught my eye as I was flipping channels. Since I didn't see the whole thing, I can't say if they're really building it or it was just a demonstration model like you might see at a show. They did end the presentation saying that all the technology they showed is currently available and the only problem is polishing it off and putting it all together. The demonstration unit had the hardwriting recognition stuff and a good deal of buisiness software in it. >The "calculator" >(hmm, a new term is going to be needed. Pity notebook is already used), How about "notepad"? The unit I saw looked about 5" x 9", or larger than a notepad, smaller than a notebook. The way you write on it with a pen also suggest a notepad. >Standard RS-232C port, preferably with another connector, IR port, high >speed port for add ons, such as HD, or local networking with other >calcs or computers. They mentioned a built in cellular phone so you could do file transfers while on the road (important for the traveling businessman). I'd hate to know the battery life of this thing. -- John H. Kim | (This space to be filled when I jokim@jarthur.claremont.edu | think of something very clever uunet!jarthur!jokim | to use as a disclaimer)
sburke@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Scott Burke) (04/06/91)
The company John Kim is thinking of is Go. Once their PenPoint software is finished, it seems apparent that a whole range of hardware devices will be created for it, ranging from tiny, calculator-sized ones up to desktop-sized machines. It currently supports _printing_ recognition, but not actual cursive handwriting recognition, and while I have heard rumors, there has not yet been any kind of announcement of mathematical equation recognition. _That's_ what we really want in a handheld calculating device... Scott. sburke@jarthur.claremont.edu
nichols@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Scott P Nichols) (04/06/91)
In article <559@lysator.liu.se> howard@lysator.liu.se (MindWalker) writes: >Well, since we've embarked on a discussion of everyones favorite HP-48SX >replacement, I thought I'd add my $2*10^-2. > >The dream machine, to me, would be something the size of an 48SX, but with >no keys. Right, _no_ keys. Instead, replace everything with a large LCD >touch sensitive display... [ full description deleted ] >Does this sound interesting? What is _your_ idea of the Dream Machine, >the as-close-to-as-possible perfect calculator (or rather personal >handheld computer)? Don't forget that it must run at 40 MHz... Scott -- O- /\ |\ /\/vv\ /vv\ \ __Insight from Oregon...Scott P. Nichols _____/ \ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ (nichols@en.ecn.purdue.edu)
ryoder@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Robert W Yoder) (04/06/91)
In article <1991Apr5.224735.2670@en.ecn.purdue.edu>, nichols@en.ecn.purdue.edu (Scott P Nichols) writes: [text deleted] > Don't forget that it must run at 40 MHz... Not only that, but he forgot the most important point: TCP/IP in ROM. :-) -- Robert Yoder "It's 10 o'clock. Do you know where your child processes are?" 306 Hawkins Graduate House Internet: ryoder@ecn.purdue.edu West Lafayette, IN 47906 Bitnet: ryoder%ecn.purdue.edu@purccvm (317)495-6845 N9CON UUCP: {purdue, pur-ee}!ecn.purdue.edu!ryoder
cloos@acsu.buffalo.edu (James H. Cloos) (04/06/91)
I've got even higher expectations.
What I'd like to see is a line of devices from one the size of the bar-code
readers FedEx deliverers use, all the way to IBM 3080-F sized machines.
All of the "chips" would in fact be 3-D arrays of transistors, etc. (This
technology *IS* being worked on.) The 48-sized portrait-orientated machine
should have an array of about 4x4x4 uP's (Say, 16 each of CISC (68040
compatable), RISC (88000 compatable), DSP (56001 compatable), and
graphics-accellerator (??? compatable) type processors. The kernal would
be an evolved mach, able to use this vast array of power effectively. A
window system resembling X11r5 (I hear it may include PostScript-like
interpretation by then; see comp.sys.unix.amiga, as I recall) would be part
of this kernal. All of the "uP's" in the array would have 4096-bit
internal and 256-bit external archetectures, with 256 address and data
lines each--word (256 bit) addressed! This means 2**270 bits of
addressable memory. The memory blocks (chip sounds too two-d) would, at
best, be more like core memory than current DRAM or SRAM technology,
needing power only to change mem contents, none (ie 0) to maintain them.
Internally, then, something akin to grobs would be used, but at 256 bits
per channel, 25400 dpi (ie, 1 pixel per um.) This would be the same along
the whole product line. Also, blocks of pixels would be rounded into a
value for each screen pixel, depending on the screen's pitch and
brightness-scale size.
The I/O prots would include a fiber-optic port for some std protocol
similar to TCP, though at somewhere around 100_MHz. (It would be the same
rate as the cpu's clock.) TCP, itself, should be able to be overlayed on
this, to facilitate IP connection to other hosts. Also, a mini-DIN-8
connector or 2 for rs232 a/o rs-4?? (I forget the number, exactly)
communications, plus the I/R, though with a more powerful transmitter and
an about as powerful receiver. Whether it comes w/ a keyboard and partial
color-lcd or a full color-lcd display is buyer-selectable (for this and the
note-book sized units, anyway; the larger and smaller units would look
pretty-much like today.) 256-channel audio would be standard on all
systems, at say 256 bits per sample, and a sample rate of 16_MHz or so
(actually, 16.777216_MHz, or 2^24_Hz). Some form of 2-way radio
communication, probably including both cellular and broadcast style bands,
would allow instant communication w/ anyone. In this fashion, it could be
used like a phone/fax/etc.
"RAM" "cards" (remember, they would be completely non-volatile, and 3-D)
would be the software-exchange medium. I'm thinking a pair of processors,
one maintaining a filesystem in its filled up memory, the other running
communications. This would mean 2^256 words of memory, or enough to hold
just about everything anyone wants on just a single "card."
For batteries, Kodak would take it's 3-lithium cell Ultralife 9V battery,
and based on that come out with a line of batteries sized like the 1.5V ones
but with a lithium cell each. Two AA or AAA sized ones or those would last
quite some time, especially since the memory wouldn't be using up much of
it. AC adapters would also be useable.
Running on top of that mach-like kernal would be a number of useful
programs like a rpl-environment for calculator tasks, as well as any number
of editors, word processors, etc. More useful on the larger systems, yes,
but runnable non the less on the smaller systems, so you'd never have to
worry about file format incompatabilities among the various machines in the
line. (Of course, software-vendor incompatabilities could still exist.)
Also, emulators of various currently popular systems would be available, so
that people's current investments would not have to be thrown out. Imagine
how fast these could be!!!
(Oh, just remembered, I'd say about 4 of those "ram-cards" could be plugged
in at a time, to give you an idea of how large I'd want them to be.)
Given all of the above, the handheld sized units would double as our
handheld tv's, raios, cd-players ("ram" block players, actually...).
-JimC
--
James H. Cloos, Jr. Phone: +1 716 673-1250
cloos@ACSU.Buffalo.EDU Snail: PersonalZipCode: 14048-0772, USA
cloos@ub.UUCP Quote: <>bson@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu (Jan Brittenson) (04/06/91)
In a posting of [6 Apr 91 03:55:50 GMT] cloos@acsu.buffalo.edu (James H. Cloos) writes: > RAM" "cards" (remember, they would be completely non-volatile, and > D) would be the software-exchange medium. I'm thinking a pair of > processors, one maintaining a filesystem in its filled up memory, the > other running communications. This would mean 2^256 words of memory, > or enough to hold just about everything anyone wants on just a single > card." Of course, the "cards" physically will look like little cubes, approximately an inch on the side. The handheld won't need any ports, because the cubes won't need to plug in - it will be enough for them to be in the viscinity of a handheld. The handheld will automatically establish a 2MB/s microwave channel to the cube, or any other handheld in the viscinity, for that matter. Thus they will be able to draw upon the computronic powers of nearby handhelds, in case the user needs to do something really demanding and important, such as playing the latest bloated version of Tetris, which will barely fit in a standard configuration. :-) -- Jan Brittenson bson@ai.mit.edu
howard@lysator.liu.se (MindWalker) (04/06/91)
jokim@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (John H. Kim) writes: >In article <559@lysator.liu.se> howard@lysator.liu.se (MindWalker) writes: >> >>The dream machine, to me, would be something the size of an 48SX, but with >>no keys. Right, _no_ keys. Instead, replace everything with a large LCD >>touch sensitive display. ... Attached to the side of the >>"calculator" would be a "pen", which would be used for menu selections, >>or writing in text. The text would be written in by writing with the pen, >I think there's already something like this in the works, although >I don't remember what company is doing it. It uses handwriting >recognition software much as you suggest. As far as I know, most of the technology exists, with the possible exception of multilayer chips (or Cubic Chips as I call them), where I suppose cooling presents a problem. But just imagine, with chips the size of a standard credit card, and, say, 10 layers you could sqeeze quite a lot on to it. For the "Dream Machine" it ought to be possible to put a CPU, couple of MB of memory (RAM/ROM) on one chip (card) (perhaps a few hundred). In fact, the CPU could be implemented as a network of CPUs, or perhaps transputers, all on one chip. This should give the computational speed needed to do things such as handwriting recognition in real time. One of the problems today is that chips need so many connections to the outer world (PGA, PLCC etc.). So why not simply mold everything into one massive chip and only have a few connections to the outer world, ie a communications line or six. Make each chip a computer. I imagine that another problem with this is manufacturing. The times that I've seen pictures from manufacturers plants on TV, when they show the process of dotting each faulty chip with red dye, there seems to be a great number of faulty chips on each wafer. I don't know why this is the case, or what ways there are of remedying this, but it seems to me that if the problem could be conquered, there'd be a lot to gain. >>Standard RS-232C port, preferably with another connector, IR port, high >>speed port for add ons, such as HD, or local networking with other >>calcs or computers. >They mentioned a built in cellular phone so you could do file transfers >while on the road (important for the traveling businessman). I'd hate >to know the battery life of this thing. Actually I thought of the idea of a cellular phone interface, or perhaps even one built in as you suggest. This would enable email to be transfered between different DM's by having software phone up a stationary site at night and do the transfers. Battery life is a field of techology which unfortunately doesn't live up to the demands of other fields of technology. It would be nice if we could apply the progress of the past five years within RAM chips to the next five years in battery technology research. Maybe in five years time we could then have a Dream Machine snuggly tucked into our coat pockets. >>The "calculator" >>(hmm, a new term is going to be needed. Pity notebook is already used), >How about "notepad"? The unit I saw looked about 5" x 9", or larger >than a notepad, smaller than a notebook. The way you write on it >with a pen also suggest a notepad. Notepad is good. I like the understatement; Calling something with that computational power a notepad is ok... :) :) But seriosly, I think that if and when things reach this stage, we will for the first time see a really _useful_ personal portable computer. It needs to be this powerful, offer this number of alternatives (and preferably more) and be this size if we're going to start talking about _personal_ computing. Something which incorporates the FiloFax, the numbercruncher, the notepad, the personal organizer, the telephone directory, the storage facilities of a couple of optical disks, the size of an HP-48SX and a nice design to top it off is just what I need... Now, if they could only sell it for less than $200... /mvH -- Programming isn't a science, | Foo: howard@lysator.liu.se it's an art. | Bar: d89marho@odalix.ida.liu.se Why is it called common sense, | Fubar: Martin_Howard:d89:lith@xns.liu.se when so few possess it ? | Voice: Int +46 (0)13 261 283 (GMT + 1h)
akcs.scotty@hpcvbbs.UUCP (SCOTTY THOMPSON) (04/07/91)
Seems us HP addicts were seemingly hypnotized/stunned and ready to sell off our HP48's for this. I was trying to keep my heart from leaping out of my shirt as I was reading this well-conceived (if not sick) joke for 04/01--I, too, am glad it's a joke, though, because I was feeling a tad dissapointed that no mention of the graphics capabilities were a part of it--ya got my attention though. I'll start saving my money...
Jake-S@cup.portal.com (Jake G Schwartz) (04/07/91)
Jim Cloos recently writes: > I've got even higher expectations. > What I'd like to see is a line of devices from one the size of the bar-code > readers FedEx deliverers use, all the way to IBM 3080-F sized machines. I wonder if Jim knows that the little bar-code reader that FedEx uses is the product of one of the most famous HP calculator hardware hackers, Jim DeArras. First, he built a 512-register add-on box for the HP41 back in 1981, and then developed the original HP41 EPROM box, powered from the HP41 bus out of the plug-in port. A company, Hand Held Products was formed to sell these HP41 add-on products, and Jim then continued to tinker out of his garage in Richmond. Today, the company has over 130 employees, mostly working in Charlotte, NC, manufacturing industrial bar-code and other smart handheld devices. Jim still tinkers in his own shop in back of his Richmond home, working miracles in small packages. Jake Schwartz
bob@dolores.Stanford.EDU (Bob Lodenkamper) (04/07/91)
In article <14715@life.ai.mit.edu> bson@rice-chex.ai.mit.edu (Jan Brittenson) writes:
Thus they will be able to draw upon
the computronic powers of nearby handhelds, in case the user needs to
do something really demanding and important, such as playing the
latest bloated version of Tetris, which will barely fit in a standard
configuration. :-)
The dream handheld will be able to play xtrek! Tetris is far too
undemanding... :-)
- Bob