asmith@acorn.co.uk (Andy Smith) (04/26/91)
Thanks for the help with my previous questions. I am really pleased to find there are so may enthusiasts like me. I am still unsure about the 48SX. Yes its faster and expandable etc, but these will only be useful to me for hobby type work to start with. One of the things I use most is the base conversions, but I could not find these on the 48. Are they as easy to access on the 48 as they are on the 28? As I like to keep my display tidy, I make frequent use of the DROP key on the 28. This has been moved to a shifted position on the 48. Why? Can the DEL key take on the functionality of the DROP key? The brackets do not seem to be split on the 48 keyboard. How do you get nested brackets?? How do you get lower case letters? Anyone know anything about issue F Answers to any of these questions and also any views from those who have moved from a 28S to a 48SX already would be very welcome. Thanks in advance, Andy
herman@corpane.uucp (Harry Herman) (04/28/91)
In <6723@acorn.co.uk> asmith@acorn.co.uk (Andy Smith) writes: >Thanks for the help with my previous questions. I am really pleased to find >there are so may enthusiasts like me. >I am still unsure about the 48SX. Yes its faster and expandable etc, but >these will only be useful to me for hobby type work to start with. >One of the things I use most is the base conversions, but I could not find >these on the 48. Are they as easy to access on the 48 as they are on the 28? They are located in TWO different locations. One is one the 3rd or 4th screen of the MODES menu, and the other is on the first screen of the MATH BASE menu. >As I like to keep my display tidy, I make frequent use of the DROP key on >the 28. This has been moved to a shifted position on the 48. Why? Can the >DEL key take on the functionality of the DROP key? No. However, HP makes it easy to use the DROP and SWAP keys without having to shift them. If you have no command line in progress, press the key with DROP or SWAP over it, without typing the left-shift key, and they do the left-shift function. Also, pressing the up-arrow key with no command line in progress puts you in the stack scroll mode, which allows you to scroll through the WHOLE stack (not just the 4 visible lines), and also allows you to edit or PICK or ROLL or ROLLD the current item without having to remember the level number and then get out of scroll mode and then type the appropriate n PICK or n ROLL or n ROLLD. And pressing the down arrow key with no command line in progress will let you edit the object on level 1 of the stack instead of having to type left-shift EDIT. Also, when entering programs, the DUP command is not present on the keyboard. So, to enable you to enter DUPs without having to go to the PRG STACK menu every time you want to DUP, you can press either left-shift ENTER or right-shift ENTER. They both work. Unfortunately, I have never seen this in the manuals, I just discovered by accident one day. >The brackets do not seem to be split on the 48 keyboard. How do you get >nested brackets?? When you press the [], {}, "", (), or <<>> keys, the HP48 automatically puts a blank in between the symbols (eg. [ ]) and positions the cursor BEFORE the closing symbol. Since you are normally in INSERT mode, pressing the key again inserts another set inside the first set, etc. >How do you get lower case letters? To enter one lower case letter, type alpha (unless the alpha indicator is already lit at the top of the screen) and then type left-shift and then the letter you want. If you have alpha-lock in effect (you pressed alpha twice, or are using a command that already activated the alpha-lock feature) and you want to enter several lower case letters, then type left-shift alpha. This locks alpha-lock in lower case mode until left-shift alpha is pressed again, or the entry mode is exitted with ENTER or ATTN. >Anyone know anything about issue F >Answers to any of these questions and also any views from those who have >moved from a 28S to a 48SX already would be very welcome. I had an HP28C and and HP28S when the HP48SX came out. I got my company to purchase the HP48SX for me just for the unit math capabilities and the fact that non-RPL people could use the equation writer for entering equations and because I could back the calculator up to a PC with the built-in serial interface and KERMIT. After using the HP48SX for a few days, I found it harder and harder to use the HP28s, so I finally broke down and bought myself an HP48SX just to use at home! Today I saw a note in this conference from somebody with an HP28S that wants to rename a directory on the HP28SX w/o moving all the variables one variable at a time. I got my HP28S out, and was so lost with it that I had to give up. On the HP48SX, doing that is trivial since you can recall whole directories to the stack, but the HP28S does not let you do that. There are so many things that are easier on the HP48 than on the HP28, that I would probably have to get the HP28 manual out in order to do much of anything with it again. >Thanks in advance, >Andy > You are welcome. Harry Herman herman@ukma!corpane
henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (04/28/91)
In article <6723@acorn.co.uk> asmith@acorn.co.uk (Andy Smith) writes: >As I like to keep my display tidy, I make frequent use of the DROP key on >the 28. This has been moved to a shifted position on the 48. Why? Can the >DEL key take on the functionality of the DROP key? The backspace key is DROP if you are not in the middle of entering something. Speaking as a new 48 owner who's still in the process of reading the manual and experimenting, HP has done a pretty good job of making the 48 usable by putting useful functions on unshifted keys in common modes. However, you do have to read the manual to find out about them. While I realize that HP couldn't put a complete set of markings on the keyboard -- you couldn't possibly follow it -- I think they could usefully have gone a bit farther than they did. >The brackets do not seem to be split on the 48 keyboard. How do you get >nested brackets?? Invoking brackets gets you a matched pair, with the cursor left inside them. To nest, just put another pair inside the first one. >How do you get lower case letters? Alpha letter is uppercase, alpha leftshift letter is lowercase. (And alpha rightshift letter is special characters, which are impossible to remember without a chart; HP really should have put these on the keyboard.) There is also a lowercase lock, which I think is alpha leftshift alpha. -- And the bean-counter replied, | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology "beans are more important". | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
akcs.falco@hpcvbbs.UUCP (Andrey Dolgachev) (04/28/91)
O.K>, I'll ask some of Andy Smith's questions: >One of the things I use most is the base conversions, but I could not >find >these on the 48. Are they as easy to access on the 48 as they are on the >28? Yes, the 48 is a complete superset of the 28, and personally, I think that every function is now easier to use, with the use of the hieracheal menu structure. The conversions can all be done with ne menu row which is reached by pressing MATH and then BASE (I think, I can't remember the names exactly, I always just stay in HEX) >As I like to keep my display tidy, I make frequent use of the DROP key >on >the 28. This has been moved to a shifted position on the 48. Why? Can >the >DEL key take on the functionality of the DROP key? The drop is in the shifted position, but if you are simply in stack mode, with no command mode present, then you can just press the del key, and the DROP is executed. The same thing happens iwth the SWAP and GRAPH keys. >The brackets do not seem to be split on the 48 keyboard. How do you get >nested brackets?? In order to conserve space, both the openign and closing things were put on the sqame key. So, if you press the bracket, parentheses, single or double quote keys, you automotically get both, with your cursor in the middle. After you finish typing the middle, simply press the right arrow key to move out. ONce you get used to it, if feels much more comfortalb eand easier and faster to use. >How do you get lower case letters? I'll answer that by explaining the HP keyboard. There are two sets of command keyboard sets, and one of alpha keys. First, there is the "normal" set of commands, which includes unshifted, right-shifted, and left-shifted. Second, there is the user-keyboard, which is like the normal command keyset, including unshifted, right-shifted and left-shifted, except that the user can assign programs, commands, objects, etc. to each of the keys. Third, there is the alpha keyboard. Unshifted usually means that a letter, number or opertaor appears, in other words the symbol on the key. For example, the upper left key is A, the + key is +, the 9 key is 9, etc. Left-shifted gives you the lowercase letters, along with more symbols. Right-shifted gives you the greek letters, and even more symbols. LC lock is reached by pressing right-shift Alpha in alpha mode. There are a lot more symbols on the keyboard of the 48 than the 28, and there is a handy reference guide on the back of the user-pamphlet which fits in to the 48's case. >Anyone know anything about issue F Sorry, don't get it, what you mean? I have had a 28C, a 28S, played with a 41, and other HP's, and the 48 is def. the most awesome calculator (with the 95 being the most awesome handhelds). Also, there is now the 48S, instead of the 48SX, which has everything the 48SX has, but no slots, and a retail price of $250 compared to $350 which means it should really cost about $190 or less. Trust me on this, get a 48, it has been described as the perfected version of the 28 and 41. --Falco
janl@ifi.uio.no (Jan Nicolai Langfeldt) (04/29/91)
In article <1991Apr28.010558.28283@zoo.toronto.edu>, henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: > Alpha letter is uppercase, alpha leftshift letter is lowercase. (And alpha > rightshift letter is special characters, which are impossible to remember > without a chart; HP really should have put these on the keyboard.) There > is also a lowercase lock, which I think is alpha leftshift alpha. But of course: those are on the back of the Quick Reference booklet, which comes with the calc. Nicolai, hp48 owner as of Saturday. Bliss
henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) (04/30/91)
In article <1991Apr29.124228.3238@ifi.uio.no> janl@ifi.uio.no writes: >> Alpha letter is uppercase, alpha leftshift letter is lowercase. (And alpha >> rightshift letter is special characters, which are impossible to remember >> without a chart; HP really should have put these on the keyboard... > >But of course: those are on the back of the Quick Reference booklet, which > comes with the calc. I noticed. That was sensible, but not as sensible as putting them on the keyboard. -- And the bean-counter replied, | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology "beans are more important". | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry
JMEYERS@MTUS5.BITNET (04/30/91)
In article <1991Apr29.184607.26315@zoo.toronto.edu>, henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) says: > >In article <1991Apr29.124228.3238@ifi.uio.no> janl@ifi.uio.no writes: >>> Alpha letter is uppercase, alpha leftshift letter is lowercase. (And alpha >>> rightshift letter is special characters, which are impossible to remember >>> without a chart; HP really should have put these on the keyboard... >> >>But of course: those are on the back of the Quick Reference booklet, which >> comes with the calc. > >I noticed. That was sensible, but not as sensible as putting them on >the keyboard. >-- >And the bean-counter replied, | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology >"beans are more important". | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry Well then, get the frigen over-priced overlays from HP! And don't complain any more. And yes I do know where they are available. Aside from HP they are available also from EduCalc for about $15.00 (U.S. and that is only an estimate of what I remeber reading several days ago.)
akcs.kevin@hpcvbbs.UUCP (Kevin Jessup) (05/01/91)
Regarding your use of the HP48SX for base conversions... The book "HP48 INSIGHTS" by Bill Wickes has a handy little program called BINCALC. It make use of the 48SX vectored enter capability to automatically add the # character to all entered numbers so that they immediately become binary integers. I obviously can't post the code as it is copyrighted.
HCLIMER%UTCVM.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (Harold Climer) (05/01/91)
You might get the overlay kit if you have $16.95 US (HP price) or $14.95 US
from EDUCALC to WASTE. I bought one it helps but $16.95 for 7 little plastic
sheets. Boy,did they see me coming!
Harold Climer
Physics Department
U. Tennessee Chattanoogajthornto@ee.ubc.ca (Johan Thornton) (05/01/91)
In article <1991Apr28.010558.28283@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: > (And alpha >rightshift letter is special characters, which are impossible to remember >without a chart; HP really should have put these on the keyboard.) Come on, they're not that hard to remember. They've been placed very logically; right-i for infinity etc.... -- Johan Thornton (but my friends call me jthornto@ee.ubc.ca)
vic@grep.co.uk (Victor Gavin) (05/02/91)
In article <1991Apr29.184607.26315@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >In article <1991Apr29.124228.3238@ifi.uio.no> janl@ifi.uio.no writes: >>> Alpha letter is uppercase, alpha leftshift letter is lowercase. (And alpha >>> rightshift letter is special characters, which are impossible to remember >>> without a chart; HP really should have put these on the keyboard... >>But of course: those are on the back of the Quick Reference booklet, which >> comes with the calc. >I noticed. That was sensible, but not as sensible as putting them on >the keyboard. To save clutter on the keyboard of the HP-41, HP placed a little decal on the back of the HP-41 which detailed various keys for the alpha keyboard. I believe that this idea was considered for the HP-48 and was rejected (but I don't know why). Perhaps someone will be selling an adhesive alpha keyboard layout as an add-on ? vic -- Victor Gavin <vic@grep.co.uk||..!ukc!grep!vic||..!ukc!vision!grep!vic>
fledley@condor.mbir.bcm.tmc.edu (R. Mark Adams) (05/02/91)
In article <1991Apr28.010558.28283@zoo.toronto.edu>, henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: |> In article <6723@acorn.co.uk> asmith@acorn.co.uk (Andy Smith) writes: |> Alpha letter is uppercase, alpha leftshift letter is lowercase. (And alpha |> rightshift letter is special characters, which are impossible to remember |> without a chart; HP really should have put these on the keyboard.) There |> is also a lowercase lock, which I think is alpha leftshift alpha. |> -- |> And the bean-counter replied, | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology |> "beans are more important". | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry I think HP should have printed the special keyboard on the _back_ of the HP-48, like they did on the HP-41. I used to refer to the table printed on the back of that calculator all the time, and I miss that sort of feature on the 48. How expensive can it be to print a label on the back? ------------------------+----------------------------+------------------------- ___ | R. Mark Adams | On cars: "...if such a / / | Baylor College of Medicine |thing did exist, it would / /_____ ______ | Department of Cell Biology |certainly be called an / __ / / __ / | |'isomobile' or an / / / / / /_/ / | fledley@mbir.bcm.tmc.edu |'autokinesin'. Never mix /__/ /__/ / ___/ | |Greek and Latin." / / | "Molecular Biologist in | /__/ 48SX | Training..." | -Goethe ------------------------+----------------------------+-------------------------
cook@hplvec.LVLD.HP.COM (Steve Cook) (05/04/91)
>Jan Nicolai Langfeldt at "Crazed Python Quoters unlimited" >In article <1991Apr28.010558.28283@zoo.toronto.edu>, >henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >> Alpha letter is uppercase, alpha leftshift letter is lowercase. (And alpha >> rightshift letter is special characters, which are impossible to remember >> without a chart; HP really should have put these on the keyboard.) There >> is also a lowercase lock, which I think is alpha leftshift alpha. >But of course: those are on the back of the Quick Reference booklet, which >comes with the calc. Just tape a copy of the alpha leftshift and alpha righthshift characters to the back of your calculator. Handier than the Quick Reference Book.
rhelps@yoda.byu.edu (05/04/91)
>> HP placed a little decal >> on the back of the HP-41 which detailed various keys for the alpha >> keyboard. I made my own label for the 48. I could hardly believe it when I turned my 48 over and saw just blank plastic. It violates the Swiss Army Knife ethic. Anyway I got hold of a sticky label, about 3" x 2", Xeroxed the most useful table out of the little quick reference manual onto it and voila' - instant reference. To Xerox onto the sticky label I used a copy machine with a straight through path, the the kind that is suitable for card and envelopes. Stick the label onto a blank 11x8.5 sheet, do a couple of test runs to get the positioning and reduction right then send label through. The whole job takes about half an hour of fiddly work with a xerox machine and costs about 50c for the copies. It has saved me much more than this in time and convenience. Just a suggestion. Don't jam up the office copy machine. - Richard helps - Provo, Utah
herman@corpane.uucp (Harry Herman) (05/04/91)
In <468rhelps@yoda.byu.edu> rhelps@yoda.byu.edu writes: >>> HP placed a little decal >>> on the back of the HP-41 which detailed various keys for the alpha >>> keyboard. >I made my own label for the 48. I could hardly believe it when I turned >my 48 over and saw just blank plastic. It violates the Swiss Army Knife >ethic. Anyway I got hold of a sticky label, about 3" x 2", Xeroxed the >most useful table out of the little quick reference manual onto it and >voila' - instant reference. To Xerox onto the sticky label I used a >copy machine with a straight through path, the the kind that is suitable >for card and envelopes. Stick the label onto a blank 11x8.5 sheet, do a >couple of test runs to get the positioning and reduction right then send >label through. The whole job takes about half an hour of fiddly work >with a xerox machine and costs about 50c for the copies. It has saved >me much more than this in time and convenience. >Just a suggestion. Don't jam up the office copy machine. >- Richard helps - >Provo, Utah Our office uses 2" or so wide clear tape for taping boxes for shipping. You could probably photo reduce that picture to something around 1.5" tall on plain paper and then use the 2" tape to tape the paper to the back of the calculator. The above is just off the top of my head, I have not tried it. Even if you don't have 2" clear tape, you could probably scotch tape a piece of paper to the calculator. However, I find having the quick reference guide in the vinyl (?sp) case with the back cover facing out (so that the keyboard display is visible) to be as convenient as turning the calculator over. Harry Herman herman@corpane