howard@lysator.liu.se (MindWalker) (04/24/91)
Could someone please tell me what a HP-95 is, which flavours it comes in and where I can get hold of one...? Seriously, though, I don't know anything about this babe except a rumour that it's HP's answer to the Atari Portfolio, so any information is appreciated. /mvH -- Programming isn't a science, | Foo: howard@lysator.liu.se it's an art. | Bar: d89marho@odalix.ida.liu.se Why is it called common sense, | Fubar: Martin_Howard:d89:lith@xns.liu.se when so few possess it ? | Voice: Int +46 (0)13 261 283 (GMT + 1h)
akcs.falco@hpcvbbs.UUCP (Andrey Dolgachev) (04/26/91)
The HP-95 is basically HP's way of saying "F*ck you, Atari". Trust me,
this thing is trul a work of art. Check out the announcement of the 95lx
posted on comp.sys. on April 23 (16:00). That gives all the info you
would need (except for a picture). Also check out PC mAgazine, and prob.
even a newspaper.
----Falcolaird@think.com (Laird Popkin) (04/26/91)
In article <28174399:2905.1comp.sys.handhelds;1@hpcvbbs.UUCP> akcs.falco@hpcvbbs.UUCP (Andrey Dolgachev) writes: >The HP-95 is basically HP's way of saying "F*ck you, Atari". Trust me, >this thing is trul a work of art. Check out the announcement of the 95lx >posted on comp.sys. on April 23 (16:00). That gives all the info you >would need (except for a picture). Also check out PC mAgazine, and prob. >even a newspaper. > ----Falco Well, I will say that it was awfully arrogant of HP to claim to be inventing the new catagory of palmtop computers despite the Portfolio and Poquet, both of whom have been available for quite some time. Here's a rough comparison, from someone who has been looking for a portable "information appliance" but hasn't bought one yet: 95LX Portfolio ---- --------- List/Street Price $699/$550 $299/$225 Display 16x40 8x40 CPU NEC V20 80C88 System RAM 512K 128K Max system RAM (same?) 512K to 640K (2 3rd party) Storage 128K RAM cards 32-128K RAM Cards 20 Mb HD (3rd party) keyboard tiny QWERTY tiny QWERTY software Lotus 123, DOS, PIM, Lotus 123 clone, DOS clone, simple text editor, simple text editor, appointment book, appointment book, telecommunications, file manager, plus small file manager, plus text DOS app's. small DOS app's. Logos: HP, Lotus Atari Interfaces: IR, serial port expansion bus Options: DOS PIM software serial, parallel port, printers, modems PC Card Drive, printers, modems note: the 95LX uses the new industry standard PCMCIA/JEIDA RAM/ROM cards, whereas the Portfolio, which existed for 2 years before the new standard, uses a proprietary RAM/ROM card from Mitsubishi. In the future the new standard cards should provide a better software availability and (through competition) lower prices. Of course, it is a fairly trivial engineering job to add the new card interface to the Portfolio, or for Atari to come out with a new model PF. note 2: the Portfolio benefits from third party development of hardware and software during the time it has been on the market. It is likely that similar items could appear for the 95LX. note 3: the Portfolio can transfer files through the parallel port, so you can use a single interface for printing and file transfers. note 4: HP and Motorolla have said that in the future they will introduce an add-on to the 95LX that will let it receive "beeper" messages. This is pretty cool, if you have a Motorolla-based beeper. Summary? The main differences are that the 95LX has more RAM and a larger display, while the PF costs half as much and is somewhat thinner. The PC Card Drive makes file transfers to the PF very easy. Some people will like the HP and Lotus logos better than the Atari logo. I think that, marketing aside, the Portfolio is sufficient for most people's needs, at $400 less, but that the 95LX's additional functionality will attract some people. Final comment: with the Poquet selling for under $1K (street price) it's worth looking at if you want a tiny, full featured DOS computer, with a less compromised keyboard and display. The Poquet doesn't bundle applications in ROM (as far as I know) making it less useful as an "information appliance". What am I going to do? Well, for just over $200 I will probably buy a PF and consider it expendable, in that in two years when technology has made both the PF and the 95LX utterly obsolete I won't mind too much when I throw it out and get an equivalently portable Sparc. :) - Laird Popkin
akcs.falco@hpcvbbs.UUCP (Andrey Dolgachev) (04/27/91)
Laird Popkin says that "The main differences are that the 95LX has more
RAM and a larger
display, while the PF costs half as much and is somewhat thinner."
The 95LX can not be compared to the Portfolio. The 95LX runs 2 and a
half times fster than a PC-XT and is compatible with IBM software. More
importantly, the software is already there and is fasr better than the
PF's versions. This is real Lotus 123, guys, full functionality, along
with an incredible term program including Xmodem and scripting, HP Solve,
an awesome Appointment manager with World time, memo pad with full ASCII
editing. Check out the posting by the HP publicist on the 23rd, which
details much more. Not only are the functions awesome, however, the
programs are FAST and amazingly integrated. With a touch of the button,
you instantly switch to the program you want, and you can swithc back to
the last program, exactly where you left off. Hey Apple, you got
competition for Multifinder. THe 95LX has 512k Ram built in, with a full
megabyte of programs and DOS in ROM, plus a real memory card ful another
half-megabyte. ALso, ROM-cards will be and are abailable with programs
on them.
Laird also says that The PC
Card Drive makes file transfers to the PF very easy. Well, with the HP
Filer, all you do is hook your 95 to your IBM and transfer by simply
selecting what you want and it is moved over. Since the 95 has a serial
port, I'm sure that a third party hard-drive could come out, but it's not
really needed with up to 1m of Ram, and ROm cards.
Agreed, the 95 is not the first palmtop computer, but it is definetley
the first of its kind. Unlike the PF, with its hafl-hearted software,
the 95 has real software, 123. It might not be for everybody, since it
is expensive, but for many people who use 123 and other business types,
it is absolutely perfect. I would advise anyone interested to read the
annoncement posted on the 23rd, it says much more than I could explain.
Personally, I think that HP is going to make another killing.
---Falcoeverett@hpcvra.cv.hp.com. (Everett Kaser) (04/30/91)
akcs.falco@hpcvbbs.UUCP (Andrey Dolgachev) writes... >Laird Popkin >also says that The PC >Card Drive makes file transfers to the PF very easy. Well, with the HP >Filer, all you do is hook your 95 to your IBM and transfer by simply >selecting what you want and it is moved over. > ---Falco Also, since the plugin cards used by the HP 95LX are PCMCIA compatible, you can use a ThinCard drive from Databook to plug the cards directly into your PC, from which they can be accessed from the PC just like any other disk drive. With the ThinCard drive in your PC, the cards are just like a floppy disk for transferring files back and forth between the 95 and the PC. Everett Kaser Hewlett-Packard Company ...hplabs!hp-pcd!everett work: (503) 750-3569 Corvallis, Oregon everett%hpcvra@hplabs.hp.com home: (503) 928-5259 Albany, Oregon
laird@think.com (Laird Popkin) (04/30/91)
In article <2818bbdc:2905.3comp.sys.handhelds;1@hpcvbbs.UUCP> akcs.falco@hpcvbbs.UUCP (Andrey Dolgachev) writes: >Laird Popkin says that "The main differences are that the 95LX has more >RAM and a larger >display, while the PF costs half as much and is somewhat thinner." > >The 95LX can not be compared to the Portfolio. The 95LX runs 2 and a >half times fster than a PC-XT and is compatible with IBM software. More >importantly, the software is already there and is fasr better than the >PF's versions. This is real Lotus 123, guys, full functionality, along >with an incredible term program including Xmodem and scripting, HP Solve, >an awesome Appointment manager with World time, memo pad with full ASCII >editing. Check out the posting by the HP publicist on the 23rd, which >details much more. Not only are the functions awesome, however, the >programs are FAST and amazingly integrated. With a touch of the button, >you instantly switch to the program you want, and you can swithc back to >the last program, exactly where you left off. Hey Apple, you got >competition for Multifinder. THe 95LX has 512k Ram built in, with a full >megabyte of programs and DOS in ROM, plus a real memory card ful another >half-megabyte. ALso, ROM-cards will be and are abailable with programs >on them. The Portfolio runs IBM software as well, under the _same_ constraints as the 95LX (e.g. well behaved BIOS text programs will work, programs which write directly to the screen don't). The Portfolio has a 123-compatible spreadsheet, though it doesn't have macroes or graphing (yet). The serial port comes with terminal software which includes Xmodem. The PF also comes with an appointment book and simple text editor. And, according to a Portfolio owner who works for HP (if I read his .sig correctly) he prefers the Portfolio's software to the 95LX's. Incidentally, the PF can switch between multiple built in applications as well, and in fact can do so on top of a "standard" DOS application. The PF has RAM and ROM cards, with a variety of programs available. I just have to point out that you wrote an awful lot comparing two machines that "can not be compared." :^) Now, I didn't say that the Portfolio was _better_ than the 95LX. I said that the 95LX provides somewhat more functionality for a significantly higher price. My _personal_ opinion is that the Portfolio is sufficient for most people's desires, and costs $400 less. >Laird also says that The PC >Card Drive makes file transfers to the PF very easy. Well, with the HP >Filer, all you do is hook your 95 to your IBM and transfer by simply >selecting what you want and it is moved over. Since the 95 has a serial >port, I'm sure that a third party hard-drive could come out, but it's not >really needed with up to 1m of Ram, and ROm cards. You don't seem to understand what the PC Card drive _is_. It is a RAM card drive that connects to your PC. You stick a Portfolio RAM card into the drive and copy files onto it, and then stick the card in the Portfolio. There are, of course, programs that let you transfer files between any computer and the Portfolio, including ones with nice friendly front ends for the PC, Mac, and Atari ST that let you "point and shoot." IMHO that is a bit of essentialy functionality that any palmtop computer needs to have to be usable by the vast majority of people, and both Atari and HP provide it. A _serial_ hard drive? What a pleasant thought. You're right -- who on earth would want a $900 512K RAM expansion and 20 Mb hard drive when they can have a couple of $500 512K RAM cards. Personally, if I were to put that much storage on a computer, it wouldn't be _either_ a Portfolio or 95LX. They both have tiny keyboards and limited displays, not to mention incompatibility with normal graphics. >Agreed, the 95 is not the first palmtop computer, but it is definetley >the first of its kind. Unlike the PF, with its hafl-hearted software, >the 95 has real software, 123. It might not be for everybody, since it >is expensive, but for many people who use 123 and other business types, >it is absolutely perfect. I would advise anyone interested to read the >annoncement posted on the 23rd, it says much more than I could explain. >Personally, I think that HP is going to make another killing. You _must_ be a really big Lotus fan if you feel that Lotus 123 is the only real spreadsheet. And you must be a big Microsoft fan, if you think that MS-DOS is the pinnacle of operating system development. Apparently you have not used a Portfolio, because if you had you would know that it's software is hardly "half hearted." There are a few things that the 95LX does which the PF does not, as I pointed out in my comparison, though you did not quote those sections. And there are some things that the PF has available which the 95LX does not, which, as I said but you did not quote, was due to it's having been on the market for a few years and I found it likely that similar options would appear for the 95LX. The only _real_ innovation in the 95LX is connecting it to Motorolla's beeper system, and that isn't available yet. Aside from that, the 95LX is a very nice machine, but between the Poquet and Portfolio the territory's been covered before -- HP is just aiming for a middle ground in the tradeoffs betweeen cost, size, and functionality. It provides less functionality than a Poquet, but at a lower cost and in a smaller package. It provides more functionality than a Portfolio, but at a higher cost and in a larger package. It seems rather straightforward to me. It's certainly not a complaint about HP's engineering, just their marketing. > ---Falco - Laird
everett@hpcvra.cv.hp.com. (Everett Kaser) (05/01/91)
laird@think.com (Laird Popkin) writes... >akcs.falco@hpcvbbs.UUCP (Andrey Dolgachev) writes: >>Laird Popkin says that "The main differences are that the 95LX has more >>RAM and a larger >>display, while the PF costs half as much and is somewhat thinner." > >The Portfolio runs IBM software as well, under the _same_ constraints as >the 95LX (e.g. well behaved BIOS text programs will work, programs which >write directly to the screen don't). The 95LX display is an MDA (IBM Monochrome, text-only interface) compatible display. The 40x16 LCD is a window on an 80x25 MDA display, that is scrollable about the full-size display. This means that the 95 will run ANY PC compat- ible program that is "reasonably" well behaved, even if it writes directly to display memory (as long as it detects and uses the MDA display). Admittedly the "scrolling window" doesn't work well on all programs, but does work reasonably well on many. (The window is scrolled automatically to keep the cursor "on the display", so the most important part of the display is usually shown.) "Reasonably" well behaved means that the program doesn't try talking to a disk interface card directly (INT 13 is supported), doesn't try to use a DMA controller (the 95 has none), and doesn't require a graphics mode (the 95 graphics are non-standard, although a complete set of graphics routines are supplied via a software interrupt, so the software developer doesn't have to develop their own line, point, block-image, rectangle, replacement rule, etc routines). There may be a few other minor points of in-compatibility, but the display is NOT just "BIOS text" compatible, but WILL work with direct screen writes. >>Laird also says that The PC >>Card Drive makes file transfers to the PF very easy. Well, with the HP >>Filer, all you do is hook your 95 to your IBM and transfer by simply >>selecting what you want and it is moved over. Since the 95 has a serial >>port, I'm sure that a third party hard-drive could come out, but it's not >>really needed with up to 1m of Ram, and ROm cards. > >You don't seem to understand what the PC Card drive _is_. It is a RAM card >drive that connects to your PC. You stick a Portfolio RAM card into the >drive and copy files onto it, and then stick the card in the Portfolio. >- Laird As noted in another response, the ThinCard drive from Databook is EXACTLY what you describe, and the HP 95LX's RAM cards are fully compatible with the Databook drive, allowing you to stick a 95 RAM card into the drive in your PC and copy files onto/off-of it, and then stick the card in the 95 and do the same. Everett Kaser Hewlett-Packard Company ...hplabs!hp-pcd!everett work: (503) 750-3569 Corvallis, Oregon everett%hpcvra@hplabs.hp.com home: (503) 928-5259 Albany, Oregon
kaufman@eecs.nwu.edu (Michael L. Kaufman) (05/01/91)
In article <1991Apr29.183820.27684@Think.COM> laird@think.com (Laird Popkin) writes: >My _personal_ opinion is that the Portfolio is sufficient >for most people's desires, and costs $400 less. To be fair, the street prices are only about $250 apart. Michael -- Michael Kaufman | I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on kaufman | fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in @eecs.nwu.edu | the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be | lost in time - like tears in rain. Time to die. Roy Batty
laird@think.com (Laird Popkin) (05/02/91)
In article <25590152@hpcvra.cv.hp.com.> everett@hpcvra.cv.hp.com. (Everett Kaser) writes: >laird@think.com (Laird Popkin) writes... >>the 95LX (e.g. well behaved BIOS text programs will work, programs which >>write directly to the screen don't). > >The 95LX display is an MDA (IBM Monochrome, text-only interface) compatible >display. The 40x16 LCD is a window on an 80x25 MDA display, that is scrollable >about the full-size display. This means that the 95 will run ANY PC compat- >ible program that is "reasonably" well behaved, even if it writes directly >to display memory (as long as it detects and uses the MDA display). Admittedly >the "scrolling window" doesn't work well on all programs, but does work >reasonably well on many. (The window is scrolled automatically to keep the >cursor "on the display", so the most important part of the display is usually >shown.) "Reasonably" well behaved means that the program doesn't try talking >to a disk interface card directly (INT 13 is supported), doesn't try to use >a DMA controller (the 95 has none), and doesn't require a graphics mode (the >95 graphics are non-standard, although a complete set of graphics routines >are supplied via a software interrupt, so the software developer doesn't have >to develop their own line, point, block-image, rectangle, replacement rule, etc >routines). There may be a few other minor points of in-compatibility, but the >display is NOT just "BIOS text" compatible, but WILL work with direct screen >writes. Sounds a lot like what the PF does, actually. I haven't found any text-only DOS applications which fit into the PF that didn't run. I haven't tried too many, but WordPerfect runs on the PF (it's a tight squeeze). Like the 95LX, the PF offers a range of non-standard graphics routines (boxes, lines, etc.) >>>Laird also says that The PC >>>Card Drive makes file transfers to the PF very easy. Well, with the HP >>>Filer, all you do is hook your 95 to your IBM and transfer by simply >>>selecting what you want and it is moved over. Since the 95 has a serial >>>port, I'm sure that a third party hard-drive could come out, but it's not >>>really needed with up to 1m of Ram, and ROm cards. >> >>You don't seem to understand what the PC Card drive _is_. It is a RAM card >>drive that connects to your PC. You stick a Portfolio RAM card into the >>drive and copy files onto it, and then stick the card in the Portfolio. >>- Laird > >As noted in another response, the ThinCard drive from Databook is EXACTLY >what you describe, and the HP 95LX's RAM cards are fully compatible with the >Databook drive, allowing you to stick a 95 RAM card into the drive in your PC >and copy files onto/off-of it, and then stick the card in the 95 and do the >same. I pretty much assumed that something like this had to exist somewhere. I was listing an available peripheral for the PF, not attacking the 95LX for not having it, in case anyone was wondering. I haven't bought _either_ a PF or a 95LX (yet) and am quite impressed with both. Thanks for the info. - Laird Popkin, Thinking Machines Connection Machine: Massively parallel supercomputer. Also a cool black cube with more blinking lights than you can shake a stick at.
laird@think.com (Laird Popkin) (05/02/91)
In article <1991May1.014038.2163@eecs.nwu.edu> kaufman@eecs.nwu.edu (Michael L. Kaufman) writes: >In article <1991Apr29.183820.27684@Think.COM> laird@think.com (Laird Popkin) writes: >>My _personal_ opinion is that the Portfolio is sufficient >>for most people's desires, and costs $400 less. > >To be fair, the street prices are only about $250 apart. You're right -- sorry for the ommission. A better comparison would be: List Price Street Price Portfolio $299 $229 95LX $699 $550 (someone reported $510 or so, but they weren't shipping 95LX's yet) So the 95LX seems to be about 2.4 to 2.2 times as expensive as the Portfolio. I haven't decided which way to go -- I'm waiting to actually see the 95LX in person, as that's the only way to judge the keyboard. > >-- >Michael Kaufman | I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on > kaufman | fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in > @eecs.nwu.edu | the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be > | lost in time - like tears in rain. Time to die. Roy Batty I loved that movie... - Laird Popkin, Thinking Machines Connection Machine: Massively parallel supercomputer. Also a cool black cube with more blinking lights than you can shake a stick at.
toddb@probe.EBay.Sun.COM (Todd Bernhard) (05/02/91)
In article <1991May1.233455.14391@Think.COM> laird@think.com (Laird Popkin) writes: >You're right -- sorry for the ommission. A better comparison would be: > > List Price Street Price >Portfolio $299 $229 >95LX $699 $550 (someone reported $510 or so, but they > weren't shipping 95LX's yet) WHERE?!?!?! I want to try one, and probably buy one, but nobody has one or seems likely to carry it! I tried the Good Guys, and they said they will *not* carry it. Fry's doesn't have it. Should I try a calculator store? A PC store? Anyone know conclusively who has it in Northern California? Should I stop by HP's headquarters? (hiding my Sun badge.....:^) ) ---todd -- Todd Bernhard, Sun Micro, US Field Mktg - Milpitas, CA 408-276-1542 toddb@Sun.COM ....!sun!toddb (Having the Right to be Wrong does NOT imply the Obligation.)
herman@corpane.uucp (Harry Herman) (05/03/91)
In <6649@male.EBay.Sun.COM> toddb@probe.EBay.Sun.COM (Todd Bernhard) writes: >In article <1991May1.233455.14391@Think.COM> laird@think.com (Laird Popkin) writes: >>You're right -- sorry for the ommission. A better comparison would be: >> >> List Price Street Price >>Portfolio $299 $229 >>95LX $699 $550 (someone reported $510 or so, but they >> weren't shipping 95LX's yet) >WHERE?!?!?! >I want to try one, and probably buy one, but nobody has one or seems >likely to carry it! >I tried the Good Guys, and they said they will *not* carry it. Fry's >doesn't have it. >Should I try a calculator store? A PC store? Anyone know conclusively >who has it in Northern California? Should I stop by HP's headquarters? >(hiding my Sun badge.....:^) ) >---todd >-- >Todd Bernhard, Sun Micro, US Field Mktg - Milpitas, CA >408-276-1542 toddb@Sun.COM ....!sun!toddb >(Having the Right to be Wrong does NOT imply the Obligation.) Try EduCalc. They are located in California, but I don't know where. Their phone number has been posted to the group several times recently, but if you don't have it, let me know and I can look it up and post it again. Harry Herman herman@corpane
ric@netcom.COM (Richard Bretscheider) (05/09/91)
herman@corpane.uucp (Harry Herman) writes: >In <6649@male.EBay.Sun.COM> toddb@probe.EBay.Sun.COM (Todd Bernhard) writes: >>> weren't shipping 95LX's yet) >>WHERE?!?!?! >>I want to try one, and probably buy one, but nobody has one or seems >>likely to carry it! >>Todd Bernhard, Sun Micro, US Field Mktg - Milpitas, CA >Try EduCalc. They are located in California, but I don't know where. You can get their, and many other, phone numbers by calling 800 directory assistance. By the way, I called EduCalc yesterday and they are sold out of the 95LX. Don't expect to get them back in for a few weeks. About the same time everyone else seems to be quoting they'll get their first shipment. This thing is bringing out the obsessive in me. :-) > Harry Herman > herman@corpane -- "If you're not going to kill me, I've got things to do." Ric Bretschneider apple!netcom!ric BWAH-Ha-ha!