rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Rich Holmes) (05/13/91)
As previously stated, I feel it is both unwise and unnecessary to split this
group. Others feel otherwise, of course, and a split may be inevitable.
If so, then I would like to urge the consideration of a second possibility.
The present proposal is too narrow (in that it splits HP48 issues from HP28
issues, when in fact these are closely related) and too limiting (in that
it fails to provide for future machines which may be successors to or other-
wise related to the HP48. (And as someone pointed out, where do you discuss
the HP infrared printer?)
As a minimally disruptive reorganization that does not suffer from this kind
of narrowness and limitation of scope, I would like to voice qualified
support for
comp.sys.handhelds.hp -- discussion of all HP handhelds
comp.sys.handhelds.misc -- discussion of non-HP handhelds
comp.sys.handhelds would be eliminated, to keep cross-posting in line. In
the future, other lines of handhelds could if desired be split off.
By "qualified" support I mean I support this in preference to any H48-vs-
everything-else split, but I support not splitting over this proposal. I
would object to having to cast one vote choosing among all 3, but would
vote for this proposal in hopes of blocking an HP48 split.
--
- Rich Holmes rich@suhep.bitnet or rich@suhep.phy.syr.edu
Syracuse U. Physics Dept. or if you must: rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu
The Kuwaitis have oil. The Kurds don't. End of story.cloos@acsu.buffalo.edu (James H. Cloos) (05/14/91)
I just want to say that I support completely creation of an hp48 group under the comp.sources and (preferably) comp.binaries hierarchies. The value of these two groups is, IM*H*O beyond question. Wrt creation of sub groups under the comp.sys.handhelds hierarchy, I am ambivilent. I don't mind reading both groups, nor do I mind reading a single group that throws all handhelds together--provided that "lets split this group up" messages do not dominate the bandwidth. I *do* tend to think, however, that palmtops running ms-dos, UNIX, Amiga-DOS, MacOS, etc. (or something compatable thereto) should not be bunched with the more calculator-orientated machines. Thus, I would also support comp.sys.palmtops for insertion between comp.sys.handhelds and comp.sys.laptops. Again, let's create comp.sources.hp48, comp.sources.rpl or comp.sources.hprpl--or something like that--and a binaries group. Let's auto-archive the postings therein. Let's be sure that if a program was posted, it can be found. Automatic additions to the mail-server and ftp sites, and (if we are lucky) the addition of uunet as an ftp site will be a GOOD THING. (Especially if, as I think, uunet's ftp archive is accessible via anon uucp.) As for the other creation a/o deletions: whatever's amicable to the majority is amicable to me. -JimC -- James H. Cloos, Jr. Phone: +1 716 673-1250 cloos@ACSU.Buffalo.EDU Snail: PersonalZipCode: 14048-0772, USA cloos@ub.UUCP Quote: <>
Renee@cup.portal.com (Renee Linda Roberts) (05/15/91)
I agree regarding the HP splits. I feel the following should split should be made: comp.sys.handhelds.hp comp.sys.handhelds.portfolio comp.sys.handhelds.misc <- Non-HP, non-Portfolio Anyhow, that's my $.02 - ============================================================================ | Renee L. Roberts Renee@cup.portal.com | | (408)225-5757 | | | | 1001001 1000110 - 1011010 1001111 1010110 - 1000011 1000001 1001110 - | | 1010010 1000101 1000001 1000100 - 1010100 1001000 1001001 1010011 - | | 0101100 - 1000101 1001101 1000001 1001001 1001100 - 1001101 1000101 | ============================================================================
laird@think.com (Laird Popkin) (05/15/91)
In article <1991May13.160635.5534@rodan.acs.syr.edu> rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Rich Holmes) writes: [regret deleted] >If so, then I would like to urge the consideration of a second possibility. >The present proposal is too narrow (in that it splits HP48 issues from HP28 >issues, when in fact these are closely related) and too limiting (in that >it fails to provide for future machines which may be successors to or other- >wise related to the HP48. (And as someone pointed out, where do you discuss >the HP infrared printer?) > >As a minimally disruptive reorganization that does not suffer from this kind >of narrowness and limitation of scope, I would like to voice qualified >support for > > comp.sys.handhelds.hp -- discussion of all HP handhelds > comp.sys.handhelds.misc -- discussion of non-HP handhelds This was discussed and rejected before, both by hp48 owhers and others. HP simply makes too many different sorts of machines to make an "HP-only" group to be meaningful. A better suggestion was: com.sys.handhelds -- discussion of handhelds in general comp.sys.handhelds.RPL -- discussion of HP's RPL handhelds Since that defines the group by the thing which will be common to the 48, 48sx, and future programmable calculators (aka handheld computers) of the hp48's family. This suggestion was made before, and didn'y "fly" though I didn't understand why owners of other RPL machines would rather be in the "general" discussion than the "hp48" discussion. I guess that the term RPL is a bit obscure, so HP48 (etc.) owners might not recognize the group's topic from its name. Alternatively, the "comp.sys.handhelds.hp48" group as proposed in the CFD should be defined to include other computers of the hp48 family, with the understanding that the groups is just called ".hp48" because of the recognition factor. - Laird Popkin, Thinking Machines Connection Machine: Massively parallel supercomputer. Also a cool black cube with more blinking lights than you can shake a stick at.
rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Rich Holmes) (05/16/91)
In article <1991May14.221202.12894@Think.COM> laird@think.com writes: >In article <1991May13.160635.5534@rodan.acs.syr.edu> rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Rich Holmes) writes: >> comp.sys.handhelds.hp -- discussion of all HP handhelds >> comp.sys.handhelds.misc -- discussion of non-HP handhelds > >This was discussed and rejected before, both by hp48 owhers and others. HP >simply makes too many different sorts of machines to make an "HP-only" >group to be meaningful. Rejected or ignored? I read most of the original RFD stuff; seemed to me most of the suggestions for an alternative simply fell into a black hole. As has this one; yours seems to be the first posted comment on it. Not what I would hope to see in a "discussion". How many "sorts of machines" does HP make? And in particular, how many sorts do people want to talk about? Basically two, as far as I can see: sophisti- cated scientifics including the 41, 28, 48, etc.; and palmtops, i.e. the 95. If having both types in the same group is objectionable, then I'd be quite happy to see comp.sys.palmtops added to the proposal I supported above. HP does make lower-end scientifics and financial calculators, but they are neither so different nor so commonly-discussed as to preclude their being grouped in with the high-end scientifics. As you mention, one could also split on RPL vs. non-RPL; in practice, very few postings concern themselves with non-RPL HP's (except the 95, again), so this would be effectively almost the same split with a much more obscure nomenclature. >Alternatively, the "comp.sys.handhelds.hp48" group as proposed in the CFD >should be defined to include other computers of the hp48 family, with the >understanding that the groups is just called ".hp48" because of the >recognition factor. Are we all supposed to recognize that "HP48" really also means "HP28", "HP41", etc.? And as you say, that would require a proposal different from the one placed before us. As a relatively recent purchaser of an HP48, I like to hear what the HP28 owners, especially those "old-timers" who've had HP28s for years, have to say. Were I one of them, I'd probably be contemplating an HP48 and would want to hear what the 48 owners have to say. To me it makes little sense to split these two camps. But if these are to remain in the same group, then c.s.h.hp is simply the most logical way to split. -- - Rich Holmes rich@suhep.bitnet or rich@suhep.phy.syr.edu Syracuse U. Physics Dept. or if you must: rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu The Kuwaitis have oil. The Kurds don't. End of story.
marcela@maestro.htsa.aha.nl (Marcel Anthonijsz) (05/16/91)
In article <42323@cup.portal.com> Renee@cup.portal.com (Renee Linda Roberts) writes: >I agree regarding the HP splits. I feel the following should split should be >made: > comp.sys.handhelds.hp > comp.sys.handhelds.portfolio > comp.sys.handhelds.misc <- Non-HP, non-Portfolio > >Anyhow, that's my $.02 > Me too. #include <my$.02.h> -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- | The only secure system is a down | marcela@maestro.htsa.aha.nl | | system, try it! | Ook Einstein is blijven zitten | -------------------------------------------------------------------------
toddb@probe.EBay.Sun.COM (Todd Bernhard) (05/16/91)
After wading through ~150 messages, I felt compelled to add just one. As a relatively new reader of this newsgroup, I joined a few months ago because I'm interested in getting a handheld computer system. comp.sys.handhelds *sounded* perfect. But I find there's more messages about hp48 calculators than anything else. I don't want to start a thread re: the hp48 is a computer.... the important thing is what would an uninformed news reader look for to get info on ___? Consider where one would purchase the item. Would you purchase the hp48 at a computer store or at an electronics/office/calculator store? More likely the latter. Consider the customer...the new news reader. They want info on the HP95LX, the Atari Portfolio, Casio Boss, and Sharp Wizard. And they're going to expect it on comp.sys.handhelds. *That* should be the overriding consideration when choosing names for a newsgroup. Finally, don't create a c.s.h.hp group, as that would only confuse the issue re: 95LX vs. 48, etc. And, "palmtops" is a misnomer....Does anyone put a handheld computer in their palms to use? And type with your nose???? Now a vertically oriented calculator could be held in one palm and worked with the free hand. So handheld.palmtop is not descriptive. Thanks for listening. ---todd -- Todd Bernhard, Sun Micro, US Field Mktg - Milpitas, CA 408-276-1542 toddb@Sun.COM ....!sun!toddb (Having the Right to be Wrong does NOT imply the Obligation.)
taber@ultnix.enet.dec.com (Patrick St. Joseph Teahan Taber) (05/17/91)
In article <6819@male.EBay.Sun.COM>, toddb@probe.EBay.Sun.COM (Todd Bernhard) writes: |> [...] And, "palmtops" |>is a misnomer....Does anyone put a handheld computer in |>their palms to use? And type with your nose???? Now a |>vertically oriented calculator could be held in one palm |>and worked with the free hand. So handheld.palmtop is not |>descriptive. |> "Palmtop" is the term that is becoming current in the industry to describe these beasts, so although it may be a misnomer, it will be a term that people will understand. Using "handheld" for palmtop would be confusing to the people who are used to the term, which dates back at least as far as the "HP41 Handheld Computer" from which this group got its current name. -- >>>==>PStJTT Patrick St. Joseph Teahan Taber, KC1TD "Nerd" is so demeaning, I prefer "fashion-impared."