laird@think.com (Laird Popkin) (05/10/91)
I favor splitting c.s.h into an hp48-related group and "everyone else." I think that it makes sense that the hp48 (etc.) discussion be separated from the other handheld discussion due to the immense volume of hp48 material and the fact that the hp48 has nothing in common with any other handhelds. It doesn't make much sense to combine two completely separate group's discussions simply because their machines are both "small". The fact that HP95LX discussion has become popular is hardly an argument against splitting the hp48 discussion off. If anything, it shows that there are indeed two completely unrelated discussion areas active in c.s.h. If hp48 people feel that people are trying to "shove them into their own group", well, I wouldn't be averse to the creation of: comp.sys.handhelds.not-hp48 comp.sys.handhelds Though it looks a little silly, it would allow the hp48 owners to control the "real" discussion area, and us non-hp48 wimps to scurry off into our own group where we don't need to read hp48 Tetris listings. :^) As a completely separate issue, are Portfolio owners (and perhaps HP95LX owners) interested in PBASIC? The complete archive with executable, documentation, and a bunch of sample programs comes to about 160K, uuencoded. - Laird Popkin, Thinking Machines Connection Machine: Massively parallel supercomputer. Also a cool black cube with more blinking lights than you can shake a stick at.
rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Rich Holmes) (05/10/91)
One more person cries out for sanity. The HP48 is transient. The reason there isn't a rec.arts.sflovers.total.recall is that "Total Recall" was transient. The reason there isn't a comp.sys.mac.energizer.bunny is that the Energizer Bunny was transient. So is the issue of a 32 bit clean ROM upgrade for the SE/30 (I hope, I hope). Granted, the lifespan of interest in the HP48 is longer than for any Arnie movie; it's still too short a time, for too small an audience, to justify a separate newsgroup, judged by the standards of other newsgroups. One person complains he's tired of pushing the "n" key. One wonders whether he also advocates the total revamping of the New York Times on the grounds that he doesn't want to read every article in the paper and is tired of flipping pages. Me, I'm tired of these half-a**ed attempts to rearrange the heirarchy. -- - Rich Holmes rich@suhep.bitnet or rich@suhep.phy.syr.edu Syracuse U. Physics Dept. or if you must: rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu The Kuwaitis have oil. The Kurds don't. End of story.
rdippold@cancun.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold) (05/11/91)
In article <1991May10.145918.4830@rodan.acs.syr.edu> rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Rich Holmes) writes: >One more person cries out for sanity. Or just cries... >The HP48 is transient. The reason there isn't a rec.arts.sflovers.total.recall >is that "Total Recall" was transient. The reason there isn't a >comp.sys.mac.energizer.bunny is that the Energizer Bunny was transient. >So is the issue of a 32 bit clean ROM upgrade for the SE/30 (I hope, I hope). >Granted, the lifespan of interest in the HP48 is longer than for any Arnie >movie; it's still too short a time, for too small an audience, to justify >a separate newsgroup, judged by the standards of other newsgroups. How transient do you want to get, when there is still extensive support and publication for one of its decade-old ancestors, the HP-41? The HP-48 is not going away for years, at least, given HP's standard methods of calculator improvement. It still has at least two more generations to go before it is replaced by something far superior again. Two-three years is not transient, especially for the net, and even then the old versions don't go just dry up and go away. Witness the HP-28. The too small an audience argument falters when a comparison of the HP48 volume in the comp.sys.handhelds group is made to most other separate newsgroups, especially the often lethargic computer groups. >One person complains he's tired of pushing the "n" key. One wonders whether he >also advocates the total revamping of the New York Times on the grounds that >he doesn't want to read every article in the paper and is tired of flipping >pages. If you could skim a newsgroup as fast as you could skim a paper, I doubt there would be any complaining. Unless everyone suddenly starts making much better use of the "Subject:" fields, however, it's not going to happen. >Me, I'm tired of these half-a**ed attempts to rearrange the heirarchy. Then ignore it. -- Standard disclaimer applies, you legalistic hacks. | Ron Dippold
kaufman@eecs.nwu.edu (Michael L. Kaufman) (05/11/91)
In article <1991May10.145918.4830@rodan.acs.syr.edu> rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Rich Holmes) writes: >One more person cries out for sanity. One person's sanity is another's.... >The HP48 is transient. >Granted, the lifespan of interest in the HP48 is longer than for any Arnie >movie; it's still too short a time, for too small an audience, to justify >a separate newsgroup, judged by the standards of other newsgroups. This does not seem to be the case. Last year we had a something.something.twin- peaks. It was very busy for about six months and then when interest in TP declined, the group went away. Michael -- Michael Kaufman | I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on kaufman | fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in @eecs.nwu.edu | the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be | lost in time - like tears in rain. Time to die. Roy Batty
streeter@theory.lcs.mit.edu (Kenneth B Streeter) (05/13/91)
In article <1991May10.145918.4830@rodan.acs.syr.edu> rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Rich Holmes) writes: >The HP48 is transient. The reason there isn't a rec.arts.sflovers.total.recall >is that "Total Recall" was transient.... >Granted, the lifespan of interest in the HP48 is longer than for any Arnie >movie; it's still too short a time, for too small an audience, to justify >a separate newsgroup, judged by the standards of other newsgroups. I must have missed the smilies in this article... The HP48 (like the HP41 before it) will be discussed for YEARS. It is nowhere near as transient as you suggest. Actually, out of all the handhelds currently discussed in this group, it will probably be the one to persist the longest. What really distinguishes the HP48 from the other machines discussed in this group is the thriving discussion of all aspects of the machine, including the exchange of machine-specific code. Clearly, there is also a whole new genre of "handheld" machines arriving, NOW -- the MSDOS "palmtops." Where will discussion for these go? The user-community, applications, and items-to-be-discussed are radically different for the HP-calc crowd and the MSDOS palmtop crowd (including the HP95). A split of some sort is definitely necessary... this discussion should hopefully determine where it should be. -- Kenneth B. Streeter | ARPA: streeter@im.lcs.mit.edu MIT LCS, Room NE43-350 | UUCP: ...!uunet!im.lcs.mit.edu!streeter 545 Technology Square | (617) 253-2614 (work) Cambridge, MA 02139 | (617) 225-2249 (home)
tibbs@hplred.HP.COM (Kevin W. Tibbs) (05/13/91)
Personally, I scan c.s.h. for ONLY HP48 specific stuff. Who knows, maybe I'm the exception, but I know that I would find it a lot easier if HP48 stuff was in one notesgroup. If the Grand Order of the Unix Universe has higher priority than ease of use, than so be it; however, I would be interested in seeing some statistics on how many scan-for-48-stuff folks, like myself, are out there. kt
greg@hoss.unl.edu (Lig Lury Jr.) (05/14/91)
Could you please use more descriptive subject lines for those of us in
news.groups? Thanks.
--
/// ____ \\\ |"What? What's going on? Who's this?... Ladies and
| |/ / \ \| | | Gentlemen, a big hand please for the Great Prophet Zarquon."
\\_|\____/|_// |"Uh, thank you, sorry I'm late, so many things cropping up at
greg \_\\\/ hoss | the last moment. How are we for time? Have I just got a minbowen@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Devon E Bowen) (05/19/91)
In article <1991May10.145918.4830@rodan.acs.syr.edu> rsholmes@rodan.acs.syr.edu (Rich Holmes) writes: > One person complains he's tired of pushing the "n" key. One wonders whether > he also advocates the total revamping of the New York Times on the grounds > that he doesn't want to read every article in the paper and is tired of > flipping pages. > Me, I'm tired of these half-a**ed attempts to rearrange the heirarchy. You can always hit the 'n' key. Or maybe The Times should remove their editorial section? 8-P Devon
bowen@cs.Buffalo.EDU (Devon E Bowen) (05/19/91)
In article <6230008@hplred.HP.COM>, tibbs@hplred.HP.COM (Kevin W. Tibbs) writes: |> Personally, I scan c.s.h. for ONLY HP48 specific stuff. Who knows, |> maybe I'm the exception, but I know that I would find it a lot easier if |> HP48 stuff was in one notesgroup. I don't think you're the exception. That's my sole purpose in this group, too. And while that is a reason for the new groups, it's not the reason that will make me vote for them. The reason is all the people that *don't* have hp48s. I know if I had another calculator, I'd be pretty damn pissed about having to sift through all this stuff every day. It's not fair for the hp48 users to monopolize the group. How many non-hp48 owners have been chased away by the current situation? How many that are still holding on wouldn't like a group that helps them out a bit? Create the groups and give these people a break. Devon
CW%APG.PH.UCL.AC.UK@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU (05/21/91)
Dear all,
I too wish to express my support for what seems to be the most
logical idea so far for a split. This is of course
comp.sys.handhelds
comp.sys.palmtops
If a split is going to occur (and it seems to me certain people will
not be happy until one does occur) then I would gladly vote for this
arrangement.
Conrad W.bdahlen@zephyr.cair.du.edu (Robert L. Dahlen - U. of Denver USA=) (05/23/91)
In article <B81FA7E2C000033E@gacvx2.gac.edu> CW%APG.PH.UCL.AC.UK@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU writes: > I too wish to express my support for what seems to be the most > logical idea so far for a split. This is of course > comp.sys.handhelds > comp.sys.palmtops [some more stuff deleted] I would like to support this, because it seems it would leave a lot of the whiners where they are. But, it makes it difficult for new users of these groups. Handhelds is no longer a good descriptor of the units primarily discussed. Whatever is discussed should be split up since the HP 48 and its sucessors do not belong with the Portfolio, BOSS, HP-95, etc. There in lies the rub, handhelds describes both, and therefore it describes NEITHER! comp.sys.palmtops and comp.sys.something but comp.sys.handhelds should go away. This is just an opinion, not a religion, and I am entitled to my opinion. Flames to dev.null -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert L. Dahlen - Director, Information Systems & Technology University of Denver - Denver, Colorado 80208 (303) 871-4385 INTERNET:bdahlen@du.edu BITNET:bdahlen@ducair
laird@think.com (Laird Popkin) (05/25/91)
I suggest that we hold a double vote, similar to the one that was recently
held in rec.games.video. I propose that we vote separately for the
creation of two groups:
comp.sys.handhelds.hp48 for the discussion of the hp48 and
related HP calculators
como.sys.handhelds.msdos for the discussion of MS-DOS handhelds
The two votes are completely independent, and are only being handdled at
the same time to get everything over with as soon as possible.
If there is sufficient support for a separate hp48 group, one will be
created. If there is sufficient support for a separate MS-DOS group, one
will be created.
No matter what, we can stop discussing the vote and get back to exchanging
useful information again.
In case anyone is concerned that holding two independent votes at one time
might be a problem with the net.gods, the rec.games.video vote passed
(creating rec.games.video.arcade).
- Laird Popkin, Thinking Machines
Connection Machine: Massively parallel supercomputer. Also a cool black
cube with more blinking lights than you can shake a stick at.