jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) (06/09/91)
Well, I've gone and done a very silly thing. I've put down 2/3d
of the price for a Portfolio. I came up a bit short this week so
I couldn't pay for it completely, but I'll pay the balance in a couple
of weeks and pick it up.
But I think a few comments about why it was a "very silly" thing
to do might be worthwhile to help other people decide about these things.
In our family, we have 2 Tandy Model-100 laptops. We got them
early on when they first came out. I personally bought a Sharp PC-1500
when it was relatively new and I bought, and still own a PC-5000 laptop.
I've had over a dozen computers over the years and I have 5 right now,
not counting the Portfolio, and we've had a wide array of calculators.
So I have a fairly good idea of what is "really useful" and what
is "sucker bait."
Cut to the Chase:
Both the Portfolio and the HP-95LX are, for the most part, "sucker
bait." Sorry guys, but if your read the ads and then think about
practical field usage, the conclusion is inescapable. And the sales
trend of the Portfolio confirms it. They are toys for people like me
who like to "play with technology." If you want something practical
to get real work done, go elsewhere.
Let's group the functions. First there's the Calculator/Clock
function set (CC), and then the Calendar/Phonebook/Diary function
set (CPD) and then there's the WordProcessor/Spreadsheet function
set (WPS). I've divided it up because there are distinct products
available on store shelves already for CC and CPD. Rolodex in
particular has a CC unit which does not have a clock, so that it
can't fulfill the CC functions. This was a strange move because
there are a number of CC/CPD capable products on the market by
Casio, Sharp and Texas Instruments.
The CC/CPD products around are *very* functional. I know
a lot of people who carry these around in their pockets and *use*
them. Mainly they use the calculator function and the phone book.
The Calendar function isn't that useful for them. Peole still
scribble notes on slips of paper rather than fight with the small
keyboards. Also, for people like me, the basic clock functions
are very good. I have a half dozen wrist watches and generally
don't wear any of them. I keep my best watch in my pocket and
pull it out when I want to see the time. I *hate* wearing
wrist watches. But them main point is that the size is critical.
The first generation Casios were shirt-pocket size. The latest
64K size ones are still pants-pocket/jacket-pocket size and
are just about the largest practical size for most people.
The Portfolio and the 95LX are simple too big and too
*heavy*. most people are simply not going to use them for this
function. They'll get all their data on and then realize tht
they don't want to carry something that big. What about keeping
it in your briefcase? Sure, but then you have to stop and fish
it out of your briefcase. And that's if you even have your briefcase
with you. You take your briefcase to lunch with you? I don't.
You've just had lunch and you want to check your schedule for
the afternoon and maybe make a phone call. Sorry, the Portfolio/95LX
is in the briefcase sitting by your desk. "I know, I'll call my
secretary and she can get it out of my briefcase and tell me
what's on the schedule!" Uh, yeah. Or better yet, I'll transfer
the data from my Portofolio/95LX to this Texas Instruments CC/CPD
thing to take with me to lunch! Uh, yeah.
Ok, well that leaves the WPS functions. But for these
functions, the notebook computers from the Model-100 down to the
latest techno-flash things from Toshiba, Sharp and others (the
Atari even if you're not an MS-DOS thinker) are far more
practical. For word processing, you really want all the screen
size you can get. 80 columns pretty much necessary for format
preview, though I'll give that up for the character font soze
of the Model-100 to some degree. But more than that even, you
really need a good keyboard. The idea that you're going to dink
around on those tiny arrow keys and edit a letter on an airplane
shows a person who doesn't know the value of time. Better
to wait till you get a chance to set up a laptop where you can
*fly* through the work. If you want to work on a plane, then
the notebook computer will at least sit on your knees (especially
if you're smart enough to stick some double sided tape on the
bottom of the computer) and you can get *real* work done.
As for those little notes they show in the ads to your
secretary and such, well, a little sheet of paper is still more
practical. Download it to her computer? How 'bout just handing
her the note?
As I said, the Portfolio sales are apparently dropping as
people realize that these are not really useful for much. HP-95LX's
aren't any better. The keyboard is closer to my Sharp PC-1500
which makes it even less practical than the Portfolio for WPS
functions. The extra memory? It's pretty worthless really.
It doesn't help the CC/CPD functions (64K is far more than enough
for most people). I could not believe the comment by Andrews &
Reinhardt in May 1991's Byte Magazine. They're big "insight" into
these machines was that the Portfolio's 128K RAM was "not enough
to run 1-2-3 ... ". They seemed not to know that the Portfolio
comes with a 1-2-3 compatible spreadsheet in ROM. I'm not on
BIX lately, but I'm sure somebody has pointed that out by now.
And the downside is that it drains batteries faster.
So what am I going to do with my Portfolio when I get it?
Well, I'll probably use the CPD functions. I know they're impractical
due to the size of the machine, but like most techno-addicts, I'll
push myself into using it -- for a while. Eventually I'll give
up due to the lack of real utility of having the information on
yet another machine that I'm not going to take with me anywhere,
but it's the old "lemming-run" that we all go through. After that
I'll program a couple of games on it. I may even do some "useful"
applications for compiling race statistics for Radio Control car
racing (which is my favorite hobby). Calculator use? Nope. I
have a good calculator which is smaller and "pocketable" and has
good functions programmed in with minimal keystrokes to use them.
Actually, in the long run, I'll probably replace it with
one of the family's Model-100's and a Texas Instrument CC/CPD
product. Now that would be *useful*!
Anyway, now that I've embarrassed Atari and HP, let me say tht
there are some things that they could bring out that would probably
sell. First, I'd like to have a Forth-like language. Actually,
I've been thinking about this one for some time now. What I want
is Forth with support for a single data register (long/word/byte
addressable). I'd support Inc, Dec, Compare, Load, Stack, Clear,
Boolean tests and arithmatic functions for the register. Forth
purists would probably scream, but the increased utility would
be worthwhile. Secondly, or alternatively, an RPN (HP-like)
calculator card would be nice.
Also, I haven't seen a Portfolio disassembled, but it would
have been interesting to have the keyboards interchangeable. Consider
replacing the full keyboard with a "data entry" keyboard. All it
would have would be the numerical keypad (& functions), the
function keys and the cursor control keys -- all *large size*
and well laid out. That would make it a very good "on-the-site"
data entry tool, and coincidentally, make it a much better game
machine. . . . :-)
--
Jim Omura, 2A King George's Drive, Toronto, (416) 652-3880
lsuc!jimomura
Byte Information eXchange: jimomuraanthony@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Anthony J Stieber) (06/10/91)
In article <1991Jun9.152710.20556@lsuc.on.ca> jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) writes: >there are a number of CC/CPD capable products on the market by >Casio, Sharp and Texas Instruments. What machine does TI sell? I haven't heard of it before. >The first generation Casios were shirt-pocket size. The latest >64K size ones are still pants-pocket/jacket-pocket size and >are just about the largest practical size for most people. Well, my Psion Organiser II does fit in my shirt pocket at about 1x3x5 and it can hold two 256K RAM paks. Admitably it's a bit large, perhaps too large for some people. > The Portfolio and the 95LX are simple too big and too >*heavy*. most people are simply not going to use them for this For me, these two machines are larger than I might want to carry around. I'd have to try them out for a week to know. But the larger size and clamshell case may be worthwhile. My pants pockets are big enough to carry either machine (and not much else :). >really need a good keyboard. The idea that you're going to dink >around on those tiny arrow keys and edit a letter on an airplane >shows a person who doesn't know the value of time. Better I agree, word processing is difficult with such a small system. But a pocket sized system is the only one that I can carry *everywhere*. It is little larger than the small notebook, calender, pen, nevermind a calculator that I used to carry around. The qwerty keyboard is not the ultimate in keyboard input. The only reason it exists at all is because it's a standard. I've found I can type reasonalbly on a rather small 6x6 key, alphabetic keyboard, and with only one hand, leaving the other to hold the machine. When I know I'll want to do some text intesive work, I'll drag my MS-DOS laptop along (like taking notes in class, or meetings). > As for those little notes they show in the ads to your >secretary and such, well, a little sheet of paper is still more >practical. Download it to her computer? How 'bout just handing >her the note? How about just emailing it? One the uses for small machines like these are as portable terminals. I can call in from anywhere there is a phone and exchange messages. Certainly they make less sense if you're standing next to a person, unless their handheld is readily compatible with yours. There are organizations where a specific handheld is used widely. Those that don't have a use for a handheld, have devices to read the removable RAM cards the handhelds use. Imagine thinking of a proposal and working on it spontaneously while at lunch, then handing a secretary a RAM card with a spreadsheet and accompanying document. This can be done right now with an Atari Portfolio, and probably has been done. > As I said, the Portfolio sales are apparently dropping as >people realize that these are not really useful for much. HP-95LX's >aren't any better. The keyboard is closer to my Sharp PC-1500 >which makes it even less practical than the Portfolio for WPS >functions. The extra memory? It's pretty worthless really. >It doesn't help the CC/CPD functions (64K is far more than enough >for most people). I could not believe the comment by Andrews & I've typed in over 128K of data into my handheld, and I wish I could store all of it. Unfortunatly RAM for any handheld is still quite expensive. With more storage I would transfer material from other sources, such as documentation. >Reinhardt in May 1991's Byte Magazine. They're big "insight" into >these machines was that the Portfolio's 128K RAM was "not enough >to run 1-2-3 ... ". They seemed not to know that the Portfolio >comes with a 1-2-3 compatible spreadsheet in ROM. I'm not on When it comes to specialty machines like these, the "experts" don't seem to know much. They might have been refering to the monster spread sheets that take up 2MB of EMS, although I don't know how many people actually make them that big. >sell. First, I'd like to have a Forth-like language. Actually, There is a forth for the Portfolio available, it's on atari.archive.engin.umich.edu. There's a mail server for this site too, I think. If you really want a sort of forth like machine, check out the HP-48SX. -- <-:(= Anthony Stieber anthony@csd4.csd.uwm.edu uwm!uwmcsd4!anthony Psion Mailing List subscriber submissions psion ----------\ the (human) moderator psion-owner -------+--@csd4.csd.uwm.edu subscriptions and file requests psion-request ----/
jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) (06/10/91)
In article <12951@uwm.edu> anthony@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Anthony J Stieber) writes: >In article <1991Jun9.152710.20556@lsuc.on.ca> jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) writes: > >>there are a number of CC/CPD capable products on the market by >>Casio, Sharp and Texas Instruments. > >What machine does TI sell? I haven't heard of it before. TI has the PS-6200 which is similar to a Casio SF-4000 but with data transfer capability with computers, and also the PS-6600 which is their 64K "organizer" which is similar to a Casio SF-7500 BOSS. For the record, I was going to buy a TI PS-6600 but the store owner offered me the Portfolio for *less* than a Casio SF-9000 (a bit more than the Casio SF-7500 really). He knew I'll just *have* to buy it at that price. :-) >>The first generation Casios were shirt-pocket size. The latest >>64K size ones are still pants-pocket/jacket-pocket size and >>are just about the largest practical size for most people. > >Well, my Psion Organiser II does fit in my shirt pocket at >about 1x3x5 and it can hold two 256K RAM paks. Admitably >it's a bit large, perhaps too large for some people. I guess for the record, the Casio SF-4000 is advertised as 5" * 2 7/8" * 1/2". I think the TI that I was going to buy was about 5.5" * 3" * 3/4". I don't have accurate figures, but that's what it looks like -- just a bit bigger than the 32K "organizers". >> The Portfolio and the 95LX are simple too big and too >>*heavy*. most people are simply not going to use them for this > >For me, these two machines are larger than I might want to carry >around. I'd have to try them out for a week to know. But the larger I already know. My Sharp PC-1500 was about the size of the Portfolio and 95LX. That's why I mentioned it. "Deja vu" in the extreme. The memory size of Sharp was enough to do useful things, but the limits were the single line display (which was livable actually) and the size which simply made it a "desktop and briefcase" unit. You could get a student to carry it around, but students'll carry *anything* if you can convince them they'll get better marks (or if it looks cool ;-). >>really need a good keyboard. The idea that you're going to dink >>around on those tiny arrow keys and edit a letter on an airplane >>shows a person who doesn't know the value of time. Better > >I agree, word processing is difficult with such a small system. But a >pocket sized system is the only one that I can carry *everywhere*. It Right, but this isn't pocket size. :-) Hey, if you're willing to carry something in your hand, like a lady's "clutch purse", which is close to the size of these things, then a Toshiba T-1000 is in the same ballpark. So is the Model-100 of course. >is little larger than the small notebook, calender, pen, nevermind a >calculator that I used to carry around. The qwerty keyboard is not the >ultimate in keyboard input. The only reason it exists at all is >because it's a standard. I've found I can type reasonalbly on a rather >small 6x6 key, alphabetic keyboard, and with only one hand, leaving the >other to hold the machine. When I know I'll want to do some text >intesive work, I'll drag my MS-DOS laptop along (like taking notes >in class, or meetings). Ahah! A student! I *knew* it! Like I said, you can get a student to carry just about anything . . . . :-) The Portfolio and 95LX are advertised as "Executive" tools, not studentware. When you get out into the work world, you'll find that you shed a lot of bulk. Strangely, this is compensated for by the acquisition of a tie in many cases. I think the tie is to cut off the blook (blood) from reaching the brain, compensating for the extra available oxygen not used by the muscles carrying all the bulk the student carries. I'm not sure of this though. >> As for those little notes they show in the ads to your >>secretary and such, well, a little sheet of paper is still more >>practical. Download it to her computer? How 'bout just handing >>her the note? > >How about just emailing it? One the uses for small machines like these >are as portable terminals. I can call in from anywhere there is a A 6 - 10 word note? Well, if you're not in your office to hand her the note, why not just call her and tell her (or him -- more male secretaries are showing up again, which is a good sign). If your office is particularly high tech, then it could be voice mail, but usually you can reach your secretary in a good office. Oh, you'll find some people will use them as portable terminals. But those people could usually use a notebook computer instead, which is still easier. >phone and exchange messages. Certainly they make less sense if you're >standing next to a person, unless their handheld is readily compatible >with yours. There are organizations where a specific handheld is used >widely. Those that don't have a use for a handheld, have devices to >read the removable RAM cards the handhelds use. Imagine thinking of a >proposal and working on it spontaneously while at lunch, then handing a >secretary a RAM card with a spreadsheet and accompanying document. Uh, right. Imagine it all you want. When you get out in the work world, you'll find that lunch is not a time you want to do anything that involved. Lunch is, at most, a time to relax and maybe reschedule things a bit. >This can be done right now with an Atari Portfolio, and probably has >been done. > >> As I said, the Portfolio sales are apparently dropping as >>people realize that these are not really useful for much. HP-95LX's >>aren't any better. The keyboard is closer to my Sharp PC-1500 >>which makes it even less practical than the Portfolio for WPS >>functions. The extra memory? It's pretty worthless really. >>It doesn't help the CC/CPD functions (64K is far more than enough >>for most people). I could not believe the comment by Andrews & > >I've typed in over 128K of data into my handheld, and I wish I could >store all of it. Unfortunatly RAM for any handheld is still quite >expensive. With more storage I would transfer material from other >sources, such as documentation. > >>Reinhardt in May 1991's Byte Magazine. They're big "insight" into >>these machines was that the Portfolio's 128K RAM was "not enough >>to run 1-2-3 ... ". They seemed not to know that the Portfolio >>comes with a 1-2-3 compatible spreadsheet in ROM. I'm not on > >When it comes to specialty machines like these, the "experts" don't >seem to know much. They might have been refering to the monster spread >sheets that take up 2MB of EMS, although I don't know how many people >actually make them that big. Oh no, "experts" *do* know a lot. What I couldn't believe was that they seemed to go out of their way to compare it to the Portfolio and *then* they made this incredibly inept observation specifically because they felt it was *significant*. >>sell. First, I'd like to have a Forth-like language. Actually, >There is a forth for the Portfolio available, it's on >atari.archive.engin.umich.edu. There's a mail server for this >site too, I think. If you really want a sort of forth like machine, >check out the HP-48SX. Well the point is to put it in ROM, not RAM. ROM doesn't suck power when the unit is off. At least it shouldn't if it's well designed. And it leaves RAM for data, which is how something as small as 128K can be useful. These are the lessons from the Model 100 and the Sharp things I've owned. But the Sharp PC-1500 was the real education. It had the software available really, it was just the wrong size for everything. It was just about the same size as the 95LX. -- Jim Omura, 2A King George's Drive, Toronto, (416) 652-3880 lsuc!jimomura Byte Information eXchange: jimomura
silvert@cs.dal.ca (Bill Silvert) (06/10/91)
In article <1991Jun9.152710.20556@lsuc.on.ca> jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) writes: > > Both the Portfolio and the HP-95LX are, for the most part, "sucker bait." I don't see the point of this kind of putdown. So they don't meet Jim's needs, what of it? My Portfolio offers features that I find useful. The calendar has a repeat feature which makes it handy to use, etc. As for the spreadsheet, I agree that someone with "power" applications may not find it suitable, but I find the ability to pull a spreadsheet system out of my pocket or briefcase during a meeting (I'm a scientist) very handy. The spreadsheet alone is worth the price. How about more constructive comments about handhelds and fewer putdowns of systems that certain individuals don't like? -- William Silvert, Habitat Ecology Division, Bedford Inst. of Oceanography P. O. Box 1006, Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CANADA B2Y 4A2. Tel. (902)426-1577 UUCP=..!{uunet|watmath}!dalcs!biome!silvert BITNET=silvert%biome%dalcs@dalac InterNet=silvert%biome@cs.dal.ca
ellis@squirrel.LABS.TEK.COM (Cynthia Ellis) (06/11/91)
In article <1991Jun9.152710.20556@lsuc.on.ca> jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) writes: > >Cut to the Chase: > > Both the Portfolio and the HP-95LX are, for the most part, "sucker >bait." Sorry guys, but if your read the ads and then think about >practical field usage, the conclusion is inescapable. And the sales >trend of the Portfolio confirms it. They are toys for people like me >who like to "play with technology." If you want something practical >to get real work done, go elsewhere. [the rest of Jim's text deleted ...] I disagree with Jim's conclusion here. I get "real work" done with my Pofo. I think it depends on what kind of work you expect from it. I don't expect my Pofo to be a laptop computer. I expect it to function along the lines of a Casio BOSS or a Sharp Wizard, with the added ability to be able to do a little bit of DOS on it. I used to carry a Geodex everywhere with me; that's what you're supposed to do to make it useful. It was a lot bigger than my Pofo. My Pofo fits in my purse, which my Geodex never did. I find the Pofo much more useful because of this. I also used to carry around an 18C calculator (the current model of the same thing is the HP19B) in my purse, which is just slightly smaller than a Pofo. So I figure I saved a couple of _pounds_ of stuff to carry around by trading the calculator and the Geodex for a Pofo. And the Pofo does almost as much. I don't have storage for hand-written notes, that's the only thing I miss about my Geodex, and there isn't a built-in financial calculator, which is the only thing I miss about the 18C. However, the Geodex didn't have an alarm to remind me that it was time to get to a meeting, and the 18C didn't have a built- in spreadsheet, so I figure the feature pluses/minuses are about a wash. So the weight/space savings makes the Pofo worth the money (I only paid $249 for my Pofo. I don't think I'd be willing to pop for $500+ for the HP95LX ...) I use the spreadsheet a lot for various things, including current balances on credit cards. I find that I tend to transfer the spreadsheet data up my computer to actually work on it, then download it to the Pofo to have it available for quick reference. I don't think of my Pofo as a word-processing machine. I have my Compaq SLT/286 for that function. I use the WP in my Pofo to "jot" down notes. In summary, I am very pleased with my Pofo, and I feel I do a lot more than just "play" with it (although I do have a RAM card with some games that I downloaded from Compu$erve :-). Cindy
kaufman@eecs.nwu.edu (Michael L. Kaufman) (06/11/91)
In <1991Jun9.152710.20556@lsuc.on.ca> jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) writes: >They are toys for people like me who like to "play with technology." If you >want something practical to get real work done, go elsewhere. Thanks for the information. I will tell my dad to stop spending all that time on his. Would you believe it, he tells me that that he can do things in an hour on the plane that used to take him all day. Better yet, he really believes it. What was the term you used, oh yeah, "sucker-bait". Yes sir, as soon as I get off the net I am going to call my dad, and tell him that since you couldn't find any use for your palmtop, he should go and dump his pronto. Michael -- Michael Kaufman | I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on kaufman | fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in @eecs.nwu.edu | the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be | lost in time - like tears in rain. Time to die. Roy Batty
jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) (06/11/91)
In article <1991Jun11.013109.13539@eecs.nwu.edu> kaufman@eecs.nwu.edu (Michael L. Kaufman) writes: >In <1991Jun9.152710.20556@lsuc.on.ca> jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) writes: >>They are toys for people like me who like to "play with technology." If you >>want something practical to get real work done, go elsewhere. > >Thanks for the information. I will tell my dad to stop spending all that time >on his. Would you believe it, he tells me that that he can do things in an >hour on the plane that used to take him all day. Better yet, he really believes >it. What was the term you used, oh yeah, "sucker-bait". Yes sir, as soon as >I get off the net I am going to call my dad, and tell him that since you >couldn't find any use for your palmtop, he should go and dump his pronto. Nice try Michael, but I didn't say that I "couldn't find any use for [my] palmtop ... " I see you're at an EDU site. We'll hope you learn to read better before you get into the work world. :-) I'm not at all impressed by the fact that your father "can do things in an hour on the plane that used to take him all day." All that tells me is that he didn't have a notebook computer. -- Jim Omura, 2A King George's Drive, Toronto, (416) 652-3880 lsuc!jimomura Byte Information eXchange: jimomura
BJGLEAS@auvm.american.edu (bj gleason) (06/11/91)
I don't consider the Port to be a toy either. I write when travelling, keep grades for my students in the spreadsheets while teaching, play games and program on it...
anthony@convex.csd.uwm.edu (Anthony J Stieber) (06/12/91)
In article <1991Jun10.131304.6645@lsuc.on.ca> jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) writes: [...] >Right, but this isn't pocket size. :-) Hey, if you're willing to Well, it fits my pockets. My Psion will fit in all but one of my shirts, which are an ordinary button up style. My pants pockets can easily hold a VHS video tape sized Portfolio. Don't accuse everyone of having tight pants, just because you can't fit a computer in yours. >carry something in your hand, like a lady's "clutch purse", which >is close to the size of these things, then a Toshiba T-1000 is in >the same ballpark. So is the Model-100 of course. For me, my 6.5 pound T1000 is more six times heavier than my less then one pound handheld, I don't see how they are "in the same ballpark". My M100 is still a few times larger and heavier than typical handhelds. > Ahah! A student! I *knew* it! Like I said, you can get >a student to carry just about anything . . . . :-) The Portfolio >and 95LX are advertised as "Executive" tools, not studentware. >When you get out into the work world, you'll find that you shed >a lot of bulk. Strangely, this is compensated for by the acquisition >of a tie in many cases. I think the tie is to cut off the blook >(blood) from reaching the brain, compensating for the extra available >oxygen not used by the muscles carrying all the bulk the student >carries. I'm not sure of this though. I am in the work world as well as being a student. If I didn't carry a pocket computer I have to carry around the equivelent amount of unflexible paper. Some people carry around monstrous Daytimers that outsize the smaller laptops, most business people carry around a briefcase several times larger than a handheld. I don't understand your point of "shed a lot of bulk". Was the above paragraph a joke? :-) > A 6 - 10 word note? Well, if you're not in your office to hand >her the note, why not just call her and tell her (or him -- more >male secretaries are showing up again, which is a good sign). >If your office is particularly high tech, then it could be voice mail, >but usually you can reach your secretary in a good office. Oh, you'll >find some people will use them as portable terminals. But those >people could usually use a notebook computer instead, which is still >easier. If it's something ridiculously short, then it's probably not worthwhile to go to the effort to hook up a modem and access the email system. Unless doing other things such as checking up on all the other email, and say, transfering sales figures, and downloading stock information at the same time. Maybe even make some news postings... I don't have a secretary, lots of people don't. The people that I work with aren't available like a personal secretary. I suppose voice mail could be used, but everyone has to use email anyway in the computer support areas I'm in. Voice mail is also less flexible and less powerful than email. >find some people will use them as portable terminals. But those >people could usually use a notebook computer instead, which is still >easier. A notebook computer can't be carried everywhere. Which is my point, there is a use for these machines. > Uh, right. Imagine it all you want. When you get out in >the work world, you'll find that lunch is not a time you want to >do anything that involved. Lunch is, at most, a time to relax >and maybe reschedule things a bit. I'd need my computer if I want to reschedule things a bit. Fortunatly since it fits in my pocket, I don't have to find space on a cramped table (Dinner for four...and two laptops please!) and possible drop things in it (cf, giving your computer a drink in alt.folklore.computers). Nevermind that if I run low on power, finding a power outlet would be really difficult. > Oh no, "experts" *do* know a lot. What I couldn't believe I don't have much faith in "experts" in most computer magazines, but have to rely on them in part. Too often I've found that they gloss over or aren't aware of issues that are extremely important to me and others. Generally, they're just users and sometimes hackers like anyone else, but they happen to write for a magazine. > Well the point is to put it in ROM, not RAM. ROM doesn't >suck power when the unit is off. At least it shouldn't if it's >well designed. And it leaves RAM for data, which is how something >as small as 128K can be useful. The HP-48sx has it's entire OS in ROM, which resembles Forth in some ways. RAM cards only suck power when the machine is on, when it's off the card will run for several years on it's internal lithium button cell. If you really want ROM, get a One Time Programmable (OTP) card. The standard storage device on a Psion Organiser is an EPROM, the machine has a built in EPROM programmer. They're available in capacities from 16K to 128K. Flash EPROMs are 256K, and can be erased electrically in place. -- <-:(= Anthony Stieber anthony@csd4.csd.uwm.edu uwm!uwmcsd4!anthony Psion Mailing List subscriber submissions psion ----------\ the (human) moderator psion-owner -------+--@csd4.csd.uwm.edu subscriptions and file requests psion-request ----/
kaufman@eecs.nwu.edu (Michael L. Kaufman) (06/12/91)
In <1991Jun10.131304.6645@lsuc.on.ca> jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) writes: >The Portfolio and 95LX are advertised as "Executive" tools, not studentware. >When you get out into the work world, you'll find that you shed a lot of bulk. Oh sure, that's why FiloFax and Daytimer are making so much money. And with a product significantly bigger then the hp95. Michael -- Michael Kaufman | I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on kaufman | fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in @eecs.nwu.edu | the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be | lost in time - like tears in rain. Time to die. Roy Batty
kaufman@eecs.nwu.edu (Michael L. Kaufman) (06/12/91)
In article <1991Jun11.133517.22508@lsuc.on.ca> jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) writes: > Nice try Michael, but I didn't say that I "couldn't find any use >for [my] palmtop ... " No, but what you did say was, "If you want something practical to get real work done, go elsewhere." My dad uses his to get real work done. Just becuase you can't get any real work done is no reason to say that no one can. >I'm not at all impressed by the fact that your father "can do things >in an hour on the plane that used to take him all day." All >that tells me is that he didn't have a notebook computer. I'm sorry. Arn't you the guy who keeps harping about how people in the real world are not willing to carry around big bulky things? Perhaps you should go back and read some of your old posts. If you think that palmtops are too big to carry around all the time, then why are you suggesting notebook sized machines? >I see you're at an EDU site. We'll hope >you learn to read better before you get into the work world. :-) By the way, you keep going on and on about how we will "see the light" as shown by Jim when we get out in the work world. Speaking as someone who finished college six years ago, I was wondering, when should I expect the divine revalation? Michael -- Michael Kaufman | I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on kaufman | fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in @eecs.nwu.edu | the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be | lost in time - like tears in rain. Time to die. Roy Batty
HCLIMER%UTCVM.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (Harold Climer) (06/12/91)
> >In article <1991Jun11.133517.22508@lsuc.on.ca> jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) > writes: >> Nice try Michael, but I didn't say that I "couldn't find any use >>for [my] palmtop ... " > >No, but what you did say was, "If you want something practical to get real >work done, go elsewhere." My dad uses his to get real work done. Just becuase >you can't get any real work done is no reason to say that no one can. > >>I'm not at all impressed by the fact that your father "can do things >>in an hour on the plane that used to take him all day." All >>that tells me is that he didn't have a notebook computer. > >I'm sorry. Arn't you the guy who keeps harping about how people in the >real world are not willing to carry around big bulky things? Perhaps you >should go back and read some of your old posts. If you think that palmtops are >too big to carry around all the time, then why are you suggesting notebook >sized machines? > >>I see you're at an EDU site. We'll hope >>you learn to read better before you get into the work world. :-) > >By the way, you keep going on and on about how we will "see the light" as shown >by Jim when we get out in the work world. Speaking as someone who finished >college six years ago, I was wondering, when should I expect the divine >revalation? > > >Michael > > >-- >Michael Kaufman | I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on > kaufman | fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in > @eecs.nwu.edu | the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be > | lost in time - like tears in rain. Time to die. Roy Batty I agree, it seems as if the impression of many people in the "Real Work world" think that people in a University or College setting "don't really do any work" If this is so I wonder what they are being paid to do ? If you wnat to know the truth the people that really work in this country are those that prodouce something whether it's cars,tomatoes or computer programs. It seems to me that all a lot of business types produce is hot air,memos and paper and mooorrreee paper. Harold Climer
jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) (06/12/91)
In article <1991Jun12.023215.23756@eecs.nwu.edu> kaufman@eecs.nwu.edu (Michael L. Kaufman) writes: >In article <1991Jun11.133517.22508@lsuc.on.ca> jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) writes: >> Nice try Michael, but I didn't say that I "couldn't find any use >>for [my] palmtop ... " > >No, but what you did say was, "If you want something practical to get real >work done, go elsewhere." My dad uses his to get real work done. Just becuase >you can't get any real work done is no reason to say that no one can. Well, yes I did say that, and it's actually ambiguous. It hinges on the word "practical." You seem to want to interpret that as saying "capable". Ie, that the Portfolio and HP-95 are not CAPABLE of getting real work done. But if I had wanted to say CAPABLE, I would have said CAPABLE. I didn't. I said practical. Now, I will refer you to a dictionary at this point because I don't have all that much time to waste on this discussion. But the word PRACTICAL is not necessarily so extreme, ok? >>I'm not at all impressed by the fact that your father "can do things >>in an hour on the plane that used to take him all day." All >>that tells me is that he didn't have a notebook computer. > >I'm sorry. Arn't you the guy who keeps harping about how people in the >real world are not willing to carry around big bulky things? Perhaps you >should go back and read some of your old posts. If you think that palmtops are >too big to carry around all the time, then why are you suggesting notebook >sized machines? > Michael, I'm going to lay this out as simply as I can for you because you can't seem to understand anything more complex: 1. In most cases, business people will not burden themselves unnecessarily. 2. In cases where business people need to take something, they will do so. 3. The functions of the CC/CPD/WPS capable products are not necessary 24 hours per day. So the first inclination will be not to take something that requires more than negligible effort to carry. 4. There are numerous CC/CPD products which are significantly smaller, so that they are better suited to most business people. 5. In the case where WPS functions are needed, we are dealing with a substantially heavier usage wherein carrying a notebook computer is worth the extra bulk because it is even *easier* to use and more capable than a Portfolio or HP-95LX. >>I see you're at an EDU site. We'll hope >>you learn to read better before you get into the work world. :-) > >By the way, you keep going on and on about how we will "see the light" as shown >by Jim when we get out in the work world. Speaking as someone who finished >college six years ago, I was wondering, when should I expect the divine >revalation? I have no idea. For most people it doesn't take so long. :-) -- Jim Omura, 2A King George's Drive, Toronto, (416) 652-3880 lsuc!jimomura Byte Information eXchange: jimomura
cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne (055908)) (06/13/91)
I generally agree with Jim Omura. I was playing with the HP yesterday at the store and found the keyboard VERY small. The overall size is BELOW what people can handle for any extended sort of operation. The Portfolio is larger, but still limited. If you want to really type on the machine, you need something bigger. I think we're seeing a case of "quantas" - there is a quantum leap from the shirt-pocket sized machine to the notebook sized machine. The 95LX is in between in size - large enough to be impractical to stick in the pocket, but too small to type on. It's sort of heartbreaking to see a machine of this sort - it supplies INCREDIBLE computing power - but it's just a little bigger than the ideal pocket size, and it's a pain to communicate with it. I wouldn't call it "sucker bait" in general. Those people that NEED a spreadsheet on the road (particularly one that's highly Lotus compatible) will find the HP95LX VERY USEFUL. But if you're buying it because "everyone else has one," or to use as an "ultimate appointment book," you ARE being sucked in. My ex-boss was given a Wizard to replace his DayTimer. He still uses the Daytimer... For MANY purposes, paper is still superior to LCD displays. (Now, if they added Lotus Agenda in ROM, the marketing might change again...) Looking at my DayTimer catalogue, they sell TWO major lines of diaries: The Pocket sized series (Which is what I use) The Desk-based series -The pocket diaries are all thinner than the 95, that makes an unfortunate lump in one's coat pocket -The Desk-oriented models are roughly the size of today's notebook computers. Thus, the "mini-micro-computers" may be considered a little too large to compete in the pocket market (which is the OBVIOUS target), and much too small (and limited in terms of keyboard convenience) to compete in the notebook market. -- Christopher Browne cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca University of Ottawa Master of System Science Program
andy@cbmvax.commodore.com (Andy Finkel) (06/13/91)
In article <1991Jun13.040508.18250@csi.uottawa.ca> cbbrowne@csi.uottawa.ca (Christopher Browne (055908)) writes: >Looking at my DayTimer catalogue, they sell TWO major lines of diaries: > The Pocket sized series (Which is what I use) > The Desk-based series Actually, there's a third major size, the coat pocket size. (which is the size I used to use). The HP is smaller than that, only about 1/2" thicker. (remember, you need to keep your Address Book, 5 Year Planner, and notepad in your Daytimer, along with the current month's book) I've switched to the HP completely. One of the best parts is not having to recopy todo lists, or calendar events every month. Now all I need is a matching schedule program on my Amiga. andy -- andy finkel {uunet|rutgers|amiga}!cbmvax!andy Commodore-Amiga, Inc. "2.0 is not the answer. 2.0 is the question. Yes is the answer." Any expressed opinions are mine; but feel free to share. I disclaim all responsibilities, all shapes, all sizes, all colors.
fledley@mbir.bcm.tmc.edu (R. Mark Adams) (06/15/91)
An important point to remember about the Portfolio is that it, like
full-fledged computers, is not limited to the 'organizer' applications
which are built in. Mr. Omura is correct in pointing out that there are
other 'organizers' which are capable enough and are considerably smaller
than the Port. Where I differ with his opinion is: 1) I do not think that
the Port is limited to the organizer functions. I use it every day as a
sort of electronic lab notebook, where I can input textutal notes in the
WP, numerical data in the spreadsheet, and even use the address book as
sort of a 3x5-cardfile for commonly used information. The size and portability
of the unit (It fits easily in my lab coat) make it better for this than a
'laptop' as it is actually _smaller_ than my (paper) notebook. The ease of
connection with my desktop machine makes moving data back and forth a breeze.
And: 2) I also differ with Mr. Omura in his belief that a device's sole worth
is in its value (or percieved value) to the 'business' community. It is
too bad that he is not the only one with this sort of opinion, but it seems
pretty widespread. The world of the business office is no more _real_ than
that of the molecular biology laboratory. I hope that more designers
keep this in mind as they create new machines. I, for one, think that
the ability of the Portfolio to act as a multipurpose computer allows
it to function in ways that may not have been thought of in advance.
And that is waht made personal computers so popular in the first place,
isn't it? :-)
------------------------+----------------------------+-------------------------
___ | R. Mark Adams | On cars: "...if such a
/ / | Baylor College of Medicine |thing did exist, it would
/ /_____ ______ | Department of Cell Biology |certainly be called an
/ __ / / __ / | |'isomobile' or an
/ / / / / /_/ / | fledley@mbir.bcm.tmc.edu |'autokinesin'. Never mix
/__/ /__/ / ___/ | |Greek and Latin."
/ / | "Molecular Biologist |
/__/ | For Hire" | -Goethe
------------------------+----------------------------+-------------------------akcs.davidmotto@hpcvbbs.UUCP (David G Motto) (06/15/91)
Just a little practical note from an HP95LX and HP-48SX owner: I bought the PIM card for the HP48SX just before I got the '95. I intended to use the 48SX (and possibly the '95) to track my time. I am a COBOL programmer in a small shop, working for a midwestern retail operation. I was recently asked not to bring in my "toys" to work any more. Company perception is: if it looks like a toy, it is a toy. Let real world buyers beware!
herman@corpane.uucp (Harry Herman) (06/16/91)
In <285a10a4:3417.13comp.sys.handhelds;1@hpcvbbs.UUCP> akcs.davidmotto@hpcvbbs.UUCP (David G Motto) writes: >Just a little practical note from an HP95LX and HP-48SX owner: I bought >the PIM card for the HP48SX just before I got the '95. I intended to use >the 48SX (and possibly the '95) to track my time. I am a COBOL programmer >in a small shop, working for a midwestern retail operation. I was >recently asked not to bring in my "toys" to work any more. Company >perception is: if it looks like a toy, it is a toy. Let real world buyers >beware! Hmmm..., how odd. Have you tried telling them how much it improves your performance at work? I have an HP48 that the previous company management bought for me, before they were canned last December. All the engineers I work with are impressed by it. They are just too afraid to learn RPN. Harry Herman herman@corpane
garye@microsoft.UUCP (Gary ERICSON) (06/19/91)
In article <1752@crl.LABS.TEK.COM> Cynthia Ellis writes: > >I disagree with Jim's conclusion here. I get "real work" done with >my Pofo. > >I used to carry a Geodex everywhere with me; that's what you're >supposed to do to make it useful. It was a lot bigger than my >Pofo. My Pofo fits in my purse, which my Geodex never did. I >find the Pofo much more useful because of this. > >And the Pofo does almost as much. I don't have storage for hand-written >notes, that's the only thing I miss about my Geodex, ... >... the Geodex didn't have an alarm to remind me >that it was time to get to a meeting, ... > >In summary, I am very pleased with my Pofo, and I feel I do a lot >more than just "play" with it (although I do have a RAM card with >some games that I downloaded from Compu$erve :-). > >Cindy You are one of the few people I've found who uses a Geodex rather than a Day Timer or other more well-known notebook. I've thought about replacing my Geodex with one of these organizers, and maybe you (as an [ex-]Geodex user) can answer a couple of questions I've had: 1. Geodex gives you year, month, week, day -at-a-glance views of your time, displaying more information than an 8 or 16 line display could. Do you miss being able to see as much as you can on a 5"x8" page? Or does the advantage of not having to manually copy the data from one view to another make up for that deficit? 2. The Geodex system is supposed to be more than an appointment and address book - it's big thing is the Key Result Area concept and all the forms you can use (project planning, meeting planning, decision making, etc.) to organize yourself. Did you use those features of the Geodex? Do you transfer those ideas over to the Pofo in some way? 3. You say you miss being able to keep handwritten notes - do you keep notes in your Pofo? Can you organize them in a way similar to the way you can organize notes and information in the Geodex with KRA dividers and such? I organize my non-calendar section of my Geodex using 3-position dividers I made myself - keeps it organized like a filing cabinet. Can you organize information in your Pofo in a similar way? 4. [this may depend on the answer to #3] With a Geodex (or other paper notebook system), you can find information quickly by finding and opening the page you want, using tab indexes or section dividers or whatever. You grab the page, open it, and you're there. Do you find that you can find information as quickly and easily (or quickly and easily enough) in your Pofo? If it's not as fast/easy, does the ability to search for text in notes (I assume the Pofo can do this) make up for it? Thanks for any info you're willing to give. I never see answers to these kinds of questions because I rarely find someone who has left a "system" like Geodex (as opposed to just a pocket calendar) and gone to an electronic organizer, making some of these trade-offs in the process. Gary Ericson - Microsoft - Work Group Apps