jfa0522@hertz.njit.edu (john f andrews ece) (06/26/91)
Well, well, well. I am indeed surprised, but, perhaps I was naive. Just called HP about the upgraded "serial Interface Kit". I am quite sure this has been discussed here, but did it make any difference??? I paid $50 for a kit to enable me to connect my new $300 calculator to my PC (a prime reason for upgrading to the 48) only to find it was nothing more than a cable and KERMIT????? The customer Service rep emphasizes that not everyone knows about KERMIT, and those great utilities on the disk are also only available (to many people) in the kit. Geee... I never knew HP was one of those companies that scams its customers. Alas, they will, for an additional $30, give me the software *only* from the new-improved "programmers development link"... when I queeried the effluent salesman on the technical details, he informed me (in many, many words) that it allows you to do wonderful things you can't really do with the Serial Interface Kit, like execute programs on the HP from your PC, send commands without the need for difficult escape characters, etc. In short, all the things the serial interface kit was supposed to do. So is this true... HP rips us off and stands in our faces admitting it, but with no intention to make things right? Geeesh.... HP is taking a serious dive in the PR department on this one. Who do they think buys a 48sx? I, for one, will unquestionably look at Casio/other brands now. Before I never even bothered (I am a 15 year HP user). Anybody had any luck with this? Anybody upgrade for $30? What did you get (in real words, not package descriptions!) -=one annoyed HP customer with a seriously tarnished opinion of HP
jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) (06/28/91)
In article <1991Jun25.182629.1803@njitgw.njit.edu> jfa0522@hertz.njit.edu (john f andrews ece) writes: ... >Just called HP about the upgraded "serial Interface Kit". I am quite >sure this has been discussed here, but did it make any difference??? > >I paid $50 for a kit to enable me to connect my new $300 calculator to my >PC (a prime reason for upgrading to the 48) only to find it was nothing >more than a cable and KERMIT????? Huh? Do you mean Kermit on a ROM card for the HP-95LX or Kermit on a floppy to put on a computer? If for the computer, did they give the source code for people who don't use MS-DOS machines (like me)? Also, how many cables and adaptors do they supply? Can you describe it all in detail for us? For instance, do they use extra fine, flexible cables that are easier to carry than most normal shielded cables? Also approximate lengths would be interesting. This isn't just academic. It all impacts on the portability of the whole thing. My Portfolio becomes quite a large "package" when you include a serial adapter, a bulky full-support 9 wire cable and modem. I could make a lighter wire and use faked signals like on the HP cables, but I prefer to have all the signal lines present (helps for debugging when the telephone lines get flakey), yet other people might prefer to travel lighter. Also, while we're on the subject of telecom, what are the file formats on the HP like? Are the standard database files (phone list and calendar) purely text files like on the Portfolio or do they use ESCape codes or other special characters? How are the "notes" tied to the calendar dates? Are they included as part of a single file or are they referenced via pointers? >The customer Service rep emphasizes that not everyone knows about KERMIT, >and those great utilities on the disk are also only available (to many people) >in the kit. Geee... I never knew HP was one of those companies that scams >its customers. Welllll, it might be justifiable. No doubt they're going to have to provide "service" for people who try to use the Kermit. I assume by the above it's for the main computer rather than the HP-95LX? >Alas, they will, for an additional $30, give me the software *only* from >the new-improved "programmers development link"... when I queeried the >effluent salesman on the technical details, he informed me (in many, many >words) that it allows you to do wonderful things you can't really do >with the Serial Interface Kit, like execute programs on the HP from your >PC, send commands without the need for difficult escape characters, etc. In >short, all the things the serial interface kit was supposed to do. Uh, actually, if the Kermit server mode is implimented, there *should* be a lot of this stuff do-able already. Of course this could be a UUCP interface, or an X-Window interface, or just a new "command.com" which is aimed at the serial port -- just like "good old CP/M". :-) >So is this true... HP rips us off and stands in our faces admitting it, but >with no intention to make things right? Geeesh.... HP is taking a serious >dive in the PR department on this one. Who do they think buys a 48sx? I, >for one, will unquestionably look at Casio/other brands now. Before I >never even bothered (I am a 15 year HP user). > >Anybody had any luck with this? Anybody upgrade for $30? What did you get >(in real words, not package descriptions!) -- Jim Omura, 2A King George's Drive, Toronto, (416) 652-3880 lsuc!jimomura Byte Information eXchange: jimomura
stevev@greylady.uoregon.edu (Steve VanDevender) (06/28/91)
jfa0522@hertz.njit.edu (john f andrews ece) whines and burbles because he neglected to ask what he was getting when he bought the HP 48 Serial Interface Kit. Perhaps it is overpriced, but I thought it was customary to know what you're buying before deciding so you can avoid disappointment. But instead of exercising customer caution ahead of time, he decides to blame HP for his failing. In any case, then jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) posts a totally bogus response where he thinks john f andrews bought the HP 95LX connectivity kit. What a waste. The 48 was clearly mentioned and Jim quotes that part; it's hard to believe he could spend so much time writing a reply that is so irrelevant to the original poster's burble. In any case, the responses Andrews got from HP's service department were perfectly reasonable. The Serial Interface Kit comes with Kermit for those who don't already know about it; it also comes with an assortment of 48 software that more or less justifies its price. You can get a cable-only kit if you want, and find Kermit from other sources. I have the HP serial cable and it's certainly worth the price--it's sturdy but compact. If you think that $30 is too much to pay for just a cable, then the pinouts for the HP 48 cable are easily available so you can build your own. I do feel sorry for the HP employees that took Andrews's call. It's the sort of thing that can drive companies to provide less responsive service. -- Steve VanDevender stevev@greylady.uoregon.edu "Bipedalism--an unrecognized disease affecting over 99% of the population. Symptoms include lack of traffic sense, slow rate of travel, and the classic, easily recognized behavior known as walking."
mike@drd.com (Mike Rovak) (06/28/91)
In article <1991Jun25.182629.1803@njitgw.njit.edu> jfa0522@hertz.njit.edu (john f andrews ece) writes: >Well, well, well. I am indeed surprised, but, perhaps I was naive. >Just called HP about the upgraded "serial Interface Kit". I am quite >sure this has been discussed here, but did it make any difference??? >I paid $50 for a kit to enable me to connect my new $300 calculator to my >PC (a prime reason for upgrading to the 48) only to find it was nothing >more than a cable and KERMIT????? >...stuff... >Alas, they will, for an additional $30, give me the software *only* from >the new-improved "programmers development link"... when I queeried the >effluent salesman on the technical details, he informed me (in many, many >words) that it allows you to do wonderful things you can't really do >with the Serial Interface Kit, like execute programs on the HP from your >PC, send commands without the need for difficult escape characters, etc. In >short, all the things the serial interface kit was supposed to do. > >So is this true... HP rips us off and stands in our faces admitting it, but >with no intention to make things right? Geeesh.... HP is taking a serious >dive in the PR department on this one. Who do they think buys a 48sx? I, >for one, will unquestionably look at Casio/other brands now. Before I >never even bothered (I am a 15 year HP user). > >Anybody had any luck with this? Anybody upgrade for $30? What did you get >(in real words, not package descriptions!) > >-=one annoyed HP customer with a seriously tarnished opinion of HP It's worse than you think. I upgraded in January. They debited my VISA card in January and shipped in March. A questionable business practice, to say the least. Very sloppy. My feeling is that someone at HP who knows nothing about it was given responsibility for overseeing the upgrade project, and THEIR boss dropped the ball by not seeing to it that things were done correctly. I don't think that HP would do this deliberately, they're too big and have too much to lose by just flaunting the law. You will NEED a hard disk to run the upgrade with the help files. I have a Tandy double-floppy laptop (masochist), and I can run it (as well as Borland's Turbo C++, by the way, regardless of what they say) WITHOUT the help files online. IMHO as a programmer, the upgrade COULD have been easily written to operate on my floppy machine WITH the help online. No compression techniques were used on the help text at all. All they had to do was split the file in two. After using the upgrade, my own personal feeling is that the $50 serial kit should have been the Program Development Link. As it is, I prefer to develop on the PC, where I can continuously scan all of my source at one time, where using the PDL gives you at most source code for 2 variables at a time. And I find the rest of it, relative to my own needs (yours may be different) to be MARKETING HYPE, which I despise. But I suppose that's to be expected when the bean counters get control :-) Don't bother flaming me, I think I got a right to be miffed, I paid the price of admission. But don't get me wrong. I will continue to buy HP calculators, because IMHO nobody can touch them. I can't help it if the marketing department has gone nuts. (And besides, I said I was a masochist, didn't I? :-> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Disclaimer: My opinions do not necessarily reflect those of my employer. ======================================================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------ mike@DRD.Com uunet!apctrc!drd!mike ========================================================================
kaufman@eecs.nwu.edu (Michael L. Kaufman) (06/29/91)
In article <STEVEV.91Jun27205758@greylady.uoregon.edu> stevev@greylady.uoregon.edu (Steve VanDevender) writes: >jfa0522@hertz.njit.edu (john andrews) whines and burbles because he neglected >to ask what he was getting when he bought the HP 48 Serial Interface Kit. This is not exactly fair. When I purchased the Serial Interface kit, there was a big white sticker on the box that said you could run your hp48 from your PC. While in a sense this is true (as you can do file transfers with all typing done at the PC.) the box made it seem like you could do more. I can understand John being somewhat upset by this. Michael -- Michael Kaufman | I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on kaufman | fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in @eecs.nwu.edu | the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be | lost in time - like tears in rain. Time to die. Roy Batty
jfa0522@hertz.njit.edu (john f andrews ece) (07/01/91)
In article <STEVEV.91Jun27205758@greylady.uoregon.edu> stevev@greylady.uoregon.edu (Steve VanDevender) writes: >jfa0522@hertz.njit.edu (john f andrews ece) whines and burbles well, to start out like this costs you credibility, but I will ignore it. >because he neglected to ask what he was getting when he bought >the HP 48 Serial Interface Kit. Perhaps it is overpriced, but I >thought it was customary to know what you're buying before >deciding so you can avoid disappointment. But instead of >exercising customer caution ahead of time, he decides to blame HP >for his failing. Not so. Relying on the pamphlet, the Serial Interface Kit description in the mini-catalog that came with the 48, looking to the EduCalc catalog, and the package, you cannot tell that it contains KERMIT, a cable, and a few unrelated programs that run on the 48. > <irrelevant nonsense deleted> > >In any case, the responses Andrews got from HP's service >department were perfectly reasonable. The Serial Interface Kit >comes with Kermit for those who don't already know about it; it >also comes with an assortment of 48 software that more or less >justifies its price. You can get a cable-only kit if you want, Hmm.. a graphic, a clock program, a few graphic printing programs. Surely justifies the $50 cost? Be real. >and find Kermit from other sources. I have the HP serial cable >and it's certainly worth the price--it's sturdy but compact. If >you think that $30 is too much to pay for just a cable, then the >pinouts for the HP 48 cable are easily available so you can build >your own. Nobody ever complained about the cable price. I could reuse your words to Jim Omura about not reading the original post, but like I said, that was nonsense. > >I do feel sorry for the HP employees that took Andrews's call. >It's the sort of thing that can drive companies to provide less >responsive service. >-- >Steve VanDevender stevev@greylady.uoregon.edu >"Bipedalism--an unrecognized disease affecting over 99% of the population. >Symptoms include lack of traffic sense, slow rate of travel, and the >classic, easily recognized behavior known as walking." Hmmm... a complaint, expressing diassatisfaction of a product? Driving a company toward less responsive service? Sounds odd to me. Certainly goes against most marketing/business practices. HArdly worth discussing your points. I do wonder, however, why some jump to defend HP against my SCAM post, without demonstrating any rationale for their actions. Do you work for HP? Were you the guy on the other end of the phone when I called to complain? (Obviosuly not, as it was a very civil conversation, contrary to your tone.) "...decides to blame HP for his failing..." --- see what I mean. Geesh.