benderly@cs.columbia.edu (Dan Benderly) (01/27/91)
I am considering the ourchase of a low-cost laser printer, and I was wondering if anyone was familiar with the Okidata 400. It is substatially cheaper than the HP LJ IIP (~$250 cheaper), and I have read decent reviews about it. But, I have never seen one, nor met anyone who has used one. Any help available? Thanks! Dan benderly@cs.columbia.edu
sgothard@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Steve Gothard) (01/29/91)
The Okidata is not a laser printer but rather uses an array of LED's to expose the photoconducting drum. You get what you pay for. Steve Gothard Hewlett Packard
graff@mlpvm2.iinus1.ibm.com ("Michael Graff") (01/29/91)
> The Okidata is not a laser printer but rather uses an array of > LED's to expose the photoconducting drum. You get what you pay > for. > > Steve Gothard > Hewlett Packard What do you mean by the "you get what you pay for" comment? Are you saying that an LED engine is inferior to a laser engine? As currently phrased, it comes across as a cheap shot, which may not be what you meant. If that is what you meant, please educate us and tell us why an LED engine is inferior. Thanks. ...Michael
ye@henri.ucsb.edu (Hong Ye) (01/29/91)
In article <16830005@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com> sgothard@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Steve Gothard) writes: > > > The Okidata is not a laser printer but rather uses an array of LED's to expose the > photoconducting drum. You get what you pay for. > > Steve Gothard > Hewlett Packard From what I read in Byte magzine, the LED printers actually have some advantages, e.g. better black. I am not quite sure what you mean by "You get what you pay for". Does that mean everybody should pay more just to have "HP" written on their printers? David
sgothard@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Steve Gothard) (01/30/91)
Ok, maybe I should have said don't compare apples and oranges. My point is
that if you want a "Laser Printer" then you have to pay more because
lasers and mirrors cost more than LED's. As for advantages and disadvantages
of each technology read PC Magazine, Feb. 13, 1990. One obvious advantage
of using a laser is that the beam can be modulated enabling the use of
Resolution Enhancement Technology. While this is not done on the LJIIP
using a diode array precludes any future use of modulation techniques.
An obvious disadvantage of the LED array is that the array must be located
in close proximity of the photosensitive drum and can become contaminated
with toner particles and block the light output of the LED's causing holes
in characters. Also if a single LED should die a white streak would appear
in the output and the LED array would have to be replaced.
I guess I am anoyed at Okidata refering to their printer as Okilaser
thus implying to the average consumer that it is a "Laser Printer"
when in fact it is not. Also before someone invests in a product
they should do some research and answer some important questions.
1) What kind of support can I expect?
a) When I buy the product.
b) 3 or more years from now.
2) Why does company A sell their product for less than a comparable product from company B.
a) Maybe the products are not really "comparable" due to different technologies.
b) Is one company trying to buy "Market Share"?, and if so how long can they afford to
do this if they don't succeed.
3) Is this product line profitable for the company?, strong profits from a product line
help to ensure future support for products, weak profits or worse losses from buying
market share make for a shakey future.
4) How available are accessories, upgrades, consumables, fonts, memory, software support, etc?
5) How expensive are accessories, upgrades, consumables, fonts, memory, software support, etc?
6) How well is this product supported by independent hardware and software vendors?
7) What is the reliability of the product and the manufacturer?
8) How well does the product meet my needs?
a) Now.
b) 3 or more years from now.
9) Can the product be upgraded to meet my changing needs?
Enough said, I have to get back to work to keep ahead of the competition.
Steve Gothard
Hewlett Packard
LaserJet Capital of the World jcb@frisbee.Eng.Sun.COM (Jim Becker) (01/30/91)
In article <16830005@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com> sgothard@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Steve Gothard) writes: > > > The Okidata is not a laser printer but rather uses an array of > LED's to expose the photoconducting drum. You get what you pay > for. > > Steve Gothard > Hewlett Packard Oki has spent a lot of $$$ advertising in various periodicals. I called the 800 number, since I really wanted to take a look at the 400. They took my name and address, but I never got anything in the mail. Also spent a long time looking for prices on the 400 around the bay area. There was *only* ComputerLand that sold them! There were plenty of stores selling the dot matrix, but not the LED/Laser printers. Note that they have been around for some time, but aren't in the dealers! So decided to get the Panasonic 4420, but when I was there to buy it the salesman made the choice of the IIP pretty obvious. So I wound up with a IIP, which is really nice. No regrets for the extra $$ spent. There are a billion and one things that can be added to the HP, and nothing easy to get for the Panasonic right at the moment. Third party hardware makes the printer a lot more appealing. One minor problem though, there is some junk on both edges of the toner cartridge, which causes repeated patterns on the edge of the paper (1.25" spacing). This is outside of where the cleaning paper can get to, and trying to get into the cartridge doesn't work too well. Any suggestions short of a new toner cartridge? The IIP is a very well done job. I can now see why the recommendations for it are so high. Glad to see well done products like this. -Jim Becker -- -- Jim Becker / jcb%frisbee@sun.com / Sun Microsystems
sgothard@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com (Steve Gothard) (01/31/91)
I haven't heard of junk on the edge of the paper before. But why don't you call the Peripherals Support Group at (208)323-2551 and ask them about it. Otherwise I would take it back to the dealer since this is not normal. re: LJIIP Steve Gothard
graff@mlpvm2.iinus1.ibm.com ("Michael Graff") (01/31/91)
Jim Becker writes: > They took my name and address, but I never got anything in the > mail. When I called 1-800-OKIDATA and left my address, I got a brochure in the mail about a week later. > There was *only* ComputerLand that sold them! Well, there are a few other stores locally that carry the Okidata 400 (including Soft Warehouse), but I agree they are a little difficult to find. Did you look through Computer Currents and MicroTimes? > There are a billion and one things that can be added to the HP. > Third party hardware makes the printer a lot more appealing. Agreed, this is a big advantage for HP. > One minor problem though, there is some junk on both edges of the > toner cartridge, which causes repeated patterns on the edge of the > paper (1.25" spacing). This is outside of where the cleaning paper > can get to, and trying to get into the cartridge doesn't work too > well. Hold that thought, I'll get to it in a moment... Steve Gothard writes: > If you want a "Laser Printer" then you have to pay more because > lasers and mirrors cost more than LED's. > I guess I am annoyed at Okidata referring to their printer as > Okilaser thus implying to the average consumer that it is a "Laser > Printer" when in fact it is not. If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck... If you want to split hairs, then your points are valid. But the common usage of the term "laser printer" includes LED and LCS (liquid crystal shutter) printers. LED, LCS, and "real" laser printers all use basically the same technique to put print on paper, except for the light source. If the end result is the same, what difference does it make? But to appease the hair splitters, Okidata changed the name of their printers from "Okilaser" to "Okidata LED Page Printer". I think this is silly, but it probably kept some lawyer happy somewhere. > One obvious advantage of using a laser is that the beam can be > modulated enabling the use of Resolution Enhancement Technology. > While this is not done on the LJIIP, using a diode array precludes > any future use of modulation techniques. This is only an advantage for designers of future printers and for people who have a Laserjet III. It has no meaning when comparing the Okidata 400 to the HP IIP. > An obvious disadvantage of the LED array is that the array must be > located in close proximity of the photosensitive drum and can > become contaminated with toner particles and block the light output > of the LED's causing holes in characters. I hadn't heard of this one before. Does it happen in real life or only in theory? Jim's IIP troubles above demonstrate that "real" lasers are not immune to printing problems either. > Also if a single LED should die, a white streak would appear in the > output and the LED array would have to be replaced. This is another one that seems to be a problem in theory but not in real life. Okidata has a five year warranty on the print head, so they apparently think it's not likely to happen. Meanwhile a "real" laser engine has a few disadvantages of its own, such as less resistance to shock and possible alignment problems. > Also before someone invests in a product they should do some > research and answer some important questions. I agree. HP has a commanding presence in the "laser" printer market, which leads to all sorts of advantages. HP is the standard against which others are judged. I don't envy the position HP's competitors are in. > a) Maybe the products are not really "comparable" due to different technologies. This is silly. Of course they're comparable. If you want to compare products, at least compare actual features and performance, rather than nit-pick over whether an LED print engine is comparable to a laser print engine. ...Michael
graff@mlpvm2.iinus1.ibm.com ("Michael Graff") (01/31/91)
A couple more thoughts... > Lasers and mirrors cost more than LED's I don't think most people know or care what is happening inside their "laser" printer. As far as they're concerned, it's all done with "smoke and mirrors". > Ok, maybe I should have said don't compare apples and oranges. I don't think we're comparing apples and oranges, I think we're comparing two different varieties of apples. ...Michael
heiden@kboeng.enet.dec.com (Matthias Heiden) (01/31/91)
Can't somebody come up with an answer to the original question. Nobody out there who has actually an Okidata 400 in use and can tell us about real life performance ? Matthias Heiden
willimsms@stat.appstate.edu (02/06/91)
In article <1991Jan31.090748@kboeng.enet.dec.com>, heiden@kboeng.enet.dec.com (Matthias Heiden) writes: > Can't somebody come up with an answer to the original question. Nobody out > there > who has actually an Okidata 400 in use and can tell us about real life > performance ? I still can't answer your question "exactly" but I can tell you that I have an Okidata OKILASER 840 and its performance is excellent! I have had no trouble in emulation or postscript modes (although I usually use postscript) One disadvantage, I use Windows and Word for Windows, and they have released a new printer driver for the printer on their supplemental printer driver's pack. However, the driver does not take advantage of the extra memory the printer has. (Or, at least I don't think it does because it does not give you the option to specify the amount of memory.) I have never used an Hp, so I can't give comparisons.
pete@indep1.UUCP (Peter Franks) (02/14/91)
In article <1991Jan31.090748@kboeng.enet.dec.com>, heiden@kboeng.enet.dec.com (Matthias Heiden) writes: > Can't somebody come up with an answer to the original question. Nobody out > there > who has actually an Okidata 400 in use and can tell us about real life > performance ? I have one. I got it less than a month ago, so I don't have a whole lot of experience with it, but so far I love it. I haven't seen any software incompatabilities with HP LaserJet Series II applications. I run it mainly with Microsoft Windows 3.0 & Adobe Type Manager. It only has the stock 512k of RAM and it still works great! Smooth fonts up to 48 point - no jaggies AT ALL!! Works well with all my Windows applications. Only one problem (which I haven't tried to solve yet) - it won't work with my Xenix system because it (by default) doesn't add anything to LFs, so stuff just disappears off the right side of the paper after the first 80 or so characters. There IS an escape sequence that will make it map LFs to CRLFs, but I haven't had the time to either write that into my lp interface script or see if it can be burnt into the non-volatile RAM. As soon as I get some (time, that is), hopefully next week, I'm gonna fix it and add my Xenix system to one of my smart switcher inputs so it will print to the Oki, too. I've already recommended it to several of my friends, and at least one has purchased one, too. Haven't heard any complaints, so I guess he's happy with it. BTW, I paid $620 plus tax for it at my local Soft Warehouse - not the best price around here, but I REFUSE to deal with Elek-Tek for anything other than disposables, like ribbons, cartridge tapes, floppy disks, etc., and I prefer not to buy them there if I can help it. -- +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Peter Franks | pete@indep1.mcs.com OR pete@indep1.uucp | | NI9D | Use whichever one works | +------------------------------------------------------------------------------+