chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (02/20/88)
Welcome to comp.sys.mac.programmer! This is really here, folks!
This group should be used for discussion of the various aspects of
programming the Mac. Please try to minimize cross-postings to comp.sys.mac,
since that defeats the purpose of having multiple groups.
chuq
Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ
What do you mean 'You don't really want to hurt her?'
I'm a Super-Villain! That's my Schtick!lindy@janus.uucp (Lindy Foster) (02/23/88)
In article <42507@sun.uucp> chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: > >This group should be used for discussion of the various aspects of >programming the Mac. <etc.> I have a mac, and I'd really like to start doing some real programming on it. But I frankly haven't a clue where to start. Can any of you recommend some reading material? Thanks, *lindy*
chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (02/23/88)
>I have a mac, and I'd really like to start doing some real programming >on it. But I frankly haven't a clue where to start. Can any of you >recommend some reading material? Thanks, Time to start the first controversies. It generally comes down to whether you like Pascal or C, and how much money you want to spend. I'm going to assume you're on a budget -- getting started on a maching you rarely want to put out lots of bucks, and MPW is (in my eyes) lots of bucks. So we'll stick to the lower cost compilers. For pascal, you've got LightSpeed Pascal. I'm sure there're others (is there a turbo pascal? I don't hack pascal, so I havne't paid much attention). For C, there's lightspeed C. It'll just about slice bread for you. It's inexpensive. And if you buy it after February 1, you get release 3.0 free when it comes out. Release 3.0 has a symbolic debugger, which, even if it is only half functional, will be wonderful. LSC is also a fast, compact, programmer oriented compiler. It isn't extensible, and some folks don't like the editor (I don't mind it, personally) and it isn't powerful enough for hard core types (which, if you're just starting out, you aren't) but wotthehell. It's also cheap. Um, unexpensive. By the way, I recommend C. It's a lot more natural for Mac Programming than Pascal is, even though the Mac was done in pascal). Next you'll need books. Go buy the two book set by Chernicoff on the Mac Toolbox. The best introduction and general discussion of Mac programming concepts I've seen. It's all in Pascal, so if you bought LSC, you'll need a book to help you get used to translating concepts. I like both the Takatsuka et al book by Sybex (programming the Mac toolbox in C) and the Mednieks book by Sams (C and the art of Mac programming). Neither is specifically aimed at LSC -- in fact, there is NO book about LightSpeed C programming, which I find insane -- but the concepts work in any compiler. MAybe Sybex will get smart and issue an updated version of Takatsuka in LSC. Other Books. Inside Mac is a good investment, if terrible bedside reading. Unless you use the SE or Mac II, you probably only need the first three or four volumes. The first Knaster book will tell you more about the innards of the Mac than you'll ever want to know, plus practical examples of how to make it jump through hoops. And especially, how to find out why the hoop came out sideways (it's real title should have been Zen and the Art of Macintosh Debugging). The second Knaster book, which I just did a book review of for Macintosh Horizons (plug, plug) is a lot more specialized -- Mac II, SE, and Printer folks are probably the only ones that need it. Other ideas. Avoid fortran. Always a good idea, in general, anyway. You can get APL if you want, although I I'd never know. Modula 2 is another language. And tehre's venerable old Basic, of which I won't speak because I'll just frost all the Mac Basic hackers out there. Both of you. If you want a simple, easy to get started in and powerful language, seriously consider HyperCard. It's amazing how much you can do with it, and how far you can take it with your scripting. Like, wowo. finally, you'll want source code. Try to find a copy of Paul Dubois' TransSkel package for LSC. Not only will it take care of most of the grunt work for putting the skeleton of the application up, it's source code is a wonderful practical example of how to do all those things. Neat Stuff. Yummo, as a friend of mine might say. chuq Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ What do you mean 'You don't really want to hurt her?' I'm a Super-Villain! That's my Schtick!
tedj@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Ted Johnson) (02/24/88)
"Programming the Mac Toolbox with C" is an excellent tutorial/intro. Written by Huxham and 2 others. -tedj
atchison@hpindda.HP.COM (Lee Atchison) (02/24/88)
>/ hpindda:comp.sys.mac.programmer / chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) / 9:23 pm Feb 22, 1988 / >>I have a mac, and I'd really like to start doing some real programming >>on it. But I frankly haven't a clue where to start. Can any of you >>recommend some reading material? Thanks, > >For pascal, you've got LightSpeed Pascal. I'm sure there're others (is there >a turbo pascal? I don't hack pascal, so I havne't paid much attention). I've got Turbo Pascal for the Mac. I haven't used LSP, but I've made a lot of inquiries about it and I've got some advice. Both TP and LSP have advantages and disadvantages. Which you choose depends on what is more important to you. LSP has a wonderful symbolic debugger, TP does not (debugging in TP is a real pain, macsbugs doesn't help, and TMON is too expensive). However, TP has a better editor then LSP. The TP editor is just a simple text editor (which is exactly what you want for a source code editor). LSP tries to get fancy by doing syntax checking on the fly, which makes cutting and pasting a real chore (ie. cutting out a section of code may cause an immediate syntax error, if your cut creates an invalid program--like I said, I've never used LSP, so if I'm wrong here, please someone correct me). I use TP, and will probably stay with it for a while. I MAY get LSC when 3.0 becomes available......(maybe). >For C, there's lightspeed C. It'll just about slice bread for you. It's >inexpensive. And if you buy it after February 1, you get release 3.0 free >when it comes out. Release 3.0 has a symbolic debugger, which, even if it is >only half functional, will be wonderful. I look forward to here reviews about this when it becomes available. BTW, WHEN is 3.0 coming? Real Soon Now? Rich? >By the way, I recommend C. It's a lot more natural for Mac Programming than >Pascal is, even though the Mac was done in pascal). Why is it more natural? Isn't it harder to use things like Inside Macintosh when you have to remember how the C calling convention works? >It's all in Pascal, so if you bought LSC, you'll need a >book to help you get used to translating concepts. I think this proves my point. >Next you'll need books. Go buy the two book set by Chernicoff on the Mac >Toolbox. The best introduction and general discussion of Mac programming >et al book by Sybex (programming the Mac toolbox in C) and the Mednieks book >by Sams (C and the art of Mac programming). Neither is specifically aimed at >LSC -- in fact, there is NO book about LightSpeed C programming, which I >find insane -- but the concepts work in any compiler. MAybe Sybex will get >smart and issue an updated version of Takatsuka in LSC. How about the two book set "How to Program the Macintosh" (or some such thing), I forget who wrote them. Or is the Chernicoff book set that you are talking about? >Other Books. Inside Mac is a good investment, if terrible bedside reading. Oh I don't know, I found it very good at putting me to sleep :-) >Other ideas. Avoid fortran. Always a good idea, in general, anyway. I can't even imagine trying to write a "real" mac application in fortran. Can you imagine what the code for the main event processing loop would look like? I shudder...... Please, no flames from the fortran people out there, if you actually exist. If there is someone out there who actually writes real mac applications in fortran, then they are a better programmer than me. However, there sanity may be questionable :-) >Yummo, as a friend of mine might say. > >chuq >Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ > > What do you mean 'You don't really want to hurt her?' > I'm a Super-Villain! That's my Schtick! >---------- Good luck, in whatever you decide to get started with. -lee ---- Lee Atchison Hewlett Packard, Information Networks Division atchison%hpindda@hplabs.hp.com
drc@dbase.UUCP (Dennis Cohen) (02/25/88)
In article <23091@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU>, lindy@janus.uucp (Lindy Foster) writes: ... > I have a mac, and I'd really like to start doing some real programming > on it. But I frankly haven't a clue where to start. Can any of you > recommend some reading material? Thanks, > > *lindy* To start with, you need an understanding of Pascal to program the Mac because the ROM is implemented and documented in conformance with the Pascal conventions (although you don't need to program in Pascal). The "bible" is Inside Macintosh and it is an invaluable reference. Everyone who programs the Mac should have it; however, it is not a tutorial. For that I would recommend "Macintosh Revealed" by Stephen Chernicoff (both volumes). As you get a little further along, pick up a copy of "How to Write Macintosh Software" by Scott Knaster -- the title is a bit misleading as it is more a guide to debugging Macintosh software under development. If you are using Pascal, I would recommend Turbo Pascal and the Turbo Tutor from Borland. Tutor is an excellent introduction to programming with Pascal and programming the Mac with Turbo. By all means, get a subscription to MacTutor magazine. It's a no-fluff, programming-only magazine for the Mac. Dennis Cohen Ashton-Tate Macintosh Division dBASE Mac Development Team
neil@dsl.cis.upenn.edu (Neil Radisch) (02/25/88)
In article <42814@sun.uucp> chuq@sun.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: >>I have a mac, and I'd really like to start doing some real programming >>on it. But I frankly haven't a clue where to start. Can any of you >>recommend some reading material? Thanks, If you intend on praying to the Inside Macintosh manuals (like I do) you will probably want to get a Pascal compiler because thats how the interface is documented in these manuals. Different variable formats in C might cause confusion for the beginner. (no flames please, I'm a C programmer at heart). |----------------------------------------------------------------------------| | "Better to remain quiet and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove | | all doubt" --- Abraham Lincoln | | | | neil@dsl.cis.upenn.edu.UUCP | |----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
pearl@topaz.rutgers.edu (Starbuck) (02/26/88)
In article <42814@sun.uucp> chuq@sun.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: >>I have a mac, and I'd really like to start doing some real programming >>on it. But I frankly haven't a clue where to start. Can any of you >>recommend some reading material? Thanks, >Time to start the first controversies. >It generally comes down to whether you like Pascal or C, and how much money >you want to spend. > >I'm going to assume you're on a budget -- getting started on a maching you >rarely want to put out lots of bucks, and MPW is (in my eyes) lots of bucks. >So we'll stick to the lower cost compilers. > >For pascal, you've got LightSpeed Pascal. I'm sure there're others (is there >a turbo pascal? I don't hack pascal, so I havne't paid much attention). Yes, Virginia. There is a "Turbo Pascal" for the MAC. It is very good though I can't compare it to any others besides MAC-Pascal. It beats MacPascal by a kilometre. How about a comparison between LS-Pascal, Turbo Pascal, and TML Pascal, anyone? >chuq >Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ Steve NAME: Stephen Pearl (Starbuck) VOICE: (201)932-3465 UUCP: rutgers!topaz.rutgers.edu!pearl ARPA: pearl@topaz.rutgers.edu US MAIL: LPO 12749 CN 5064, New Brunswick, NJ 08903 QUOTE: "Works for me!" -Rick Hunter (The Cop, not the Robotech Defender) "What is Starbuck-ing?" -Adultress 19
sysop@stech.UUCP (Jan Harrington) (02/27/88)
in article <42814@sun.uucp>, chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) says: > >>I have a mac, and I'd really like to start doing some real programming >>on it. But I frankly haven't a clue where to start. Can any of you >>recommend some reading material? Thanks, > > For pascal, you've got LightSpeed Pascal. I'm sure there're others (is there > a turbo pascal? I don't hack pascal, so I havne't paid much attention). > Yes, there is a Turbo Pascal. It's inexpensive (around $100), fast, easy to use, has complete ToolBox access, and I would recommend it highly for someone who is just getting started. I admit I haven't done any large programming with it, though programs of about 1000 lines take only a second or two to compile. Jan Harrington, sysop Scholastech Telecommunications UUCP: ihnp4!husc6!amcad!stech!sysop or allegra!stech!sysop BITNET: JHARRY@BENTLEY ******************************************************************************** Miscellaneous profundity: "No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai ********************************************************************************
pearl@topaz.rutgers.edu (Starbuck) (03/01/88)
In article <462@stech.UUCP> sysop@stech.UUCP (Jan Harrington) writes: >Yes, there is a Turbo Pascal. It's inexpensive (around $100), fast, easy to Might I add that it costs only $59-65 from mail order retailers. Programs Plus is *very* good. I would also recommend MacWarehouse although I don't order from them so as to avoid the sales tax. Steve NAME: Stephen Pearl (Starbuck) VOICE: (201)932-3465 UUCP: rutgers!topaz.rutgers.edu!pearl ARPA: pearl@topaz.rutgers.edu US MAIL: LPO 12749 CN 5064, New Brunswick, NJ 08903 QUOTE: "Works for me!" -Rick Hunter (The Cop, not the Robotech Defender) "What is Starbuck-ing?" -Adultress 19
edgar@dasys1.UUCP (Edgar Balagot) (03/02/88)
Could someone please send me this if it is in the public domain or a shareware product as I am just getting started programming the Mac, and would like to get most of the problems with implementing the Mac interface out of the way and do some serious coding...Thanks in advance... -- Edgar Balagot Big Electric Cat Public UNIX ..!cmcl2!phri!dasys1!edgar