mw2k+@andrew.cmu.edu (Miles Asher Weissman) (02/24/88)
A few people on the net have mentioned that they would like to start programing with there Macs. First a word of warning: IT IS GOING TO COST A RESPECTABLE AMOUNT OF MONEY The above should read ( about $200 + ). The first thing all Mac programmers need is Inside Macintosh I-V ( yep that's right, all FIVE volumes costing between $20 and $27 each ) These tomes will in NO way teach you to program the Mac, it will simply tell you the routines and how to access them. To actually learn programing on the Mac, there is a new book out (part of the Addison Wesley Mac Library) called "Programmers intro- duction to the Macintosh Family" This appears quite good, and explains how the Mac memory map is used as well as all sorts of other specific Mac info. I can not at this time recomend any external books, although I have heard that Macintosh Revealed Vol 1 & 2 are quite good. Finally, you need a good programing language. I would recomend LightSpeed Pascal or C. There is also MPW but you had better have a Hard disk and probably two megs of memory. The third and final choice would be Turbo Pascal or C, which many people like. In conclution, you will not get away without buying IM I-V, or at least having all 5 vols around when your are programing. - Miles Weissman Acting President CMU MUG MW2K@andrew.cmu.edu Carnegie Mellon University
wetter@tybalt.caltech.edu (Pierce T. Wetter) (02/24/88)
In article <8W8QYby00Xc5AFE04R@andrew.cmu.edu> mw2k+@andrew.cmu.edu (Miles Asher Weissman) writes: > > A few people on the net have mentioned that they would like to >start programing with there Macs. First a word of warning: > > IT IS GOING TO COST A RESPECTABLE AMOUNT OF MONEY > > The above should read ( about $200 + ). The first thing all >Mac programmers need is Inside Macintosh I-V ( yep that's right, all >FIVE volumes costing between $20 and $27 each ) These tomes will in >NO way teach you to program the Mac, it will simply tell you the routines >and how to access them. > To actually learn programing on the Mac, there is a new book >out (part of the Addison Wesley Mac Library) called "Programmers intro- >duction to the Macintosh Family" This appears quite good, and explains >how the Mac memory map is used as well as all sorts of other specific >Mac info. If you're absolutely strapped for money my recommendation is: Vol 3 or Inside mac DA from sumex. Lightspeed C or LightSpeed Pascal. Programmers intro to the mac. you can go without 1,2,4,5 because vol 3 has a summary of the previous volumes at the end. vol 5 isn't really ness unless you have a mac2 or are writing cdevs. vol 4 is only useful if you want to know about HFS or the list manager. You need the intro so you have some idea about how the mac works. Pierce Wetter Every 4 seconds a woman has a baby. Our problem is to find this woman and stop her. -------------------------------------------- wetter@tybalt.caltech.edu --------------------------------------------
pgn@usceast.UUCP (Paul Nevai) (02/24/88)
AND buy Programmer's Extender, Professional version with full source codes, AND buy Programming with MPW by Joel West, ANMD buy Objetc-Oriented Prog. for the Mac by K. Schmucker AND buy How to write Mac Software by Scott Knaster etc. AND be ready to spend a lots of time studying these books. But you'll have the greatest fun of your life. For beginners LSP is the best language and environment.
atchison@hpindda.HP.COM (Lee Atchison) (02/25/88)
>/ hpindda:comp.sys.mac.programmer / mw2k+@andrew.cmu.edu (Miles Asher Weissman) / 10:32 am Feb 23, 1988 / >The first thing all >Mac programmers need is Inside Macintosh I-V ( yep that's right, all >FIVE volumes costing between $20 and $27 each ) >... > In conclution, you will not get away without buying IM I-V, or >at least having all 5 vols around when your are programing. I disagree. If you don't have a MacSE or a MacII, you don't need volume V. You can also get away without volume IV if you don't use any Mac PLUS specific stuff. I've been doing Mac programming for quite a while with only volumes I and II (actually, I had less than that, I was using the promotion edition until just recently - if you think that regular editions of IM are hard to read......). Actually, to start Mac Programming, the "Macintosh Revealed" books are probably all you need, but you will find that very soon you'll want IM volumnes I and II. Anything beyond that is optional for many people. > > - Miles Weissman > Acting President CMU MUG >MW2K@andrew.cmu.edu >Carnegie Mellon University >---------- Just my opinions...... -lee ---- Lee Atchison Hewlett Packard, Information Networks Division atchison%hpindda@hplabs.hp.com
chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (02/25/88)
>> IT IS GOING TO COST A RESPECTABLE AMOUNT OF MONEY >> The above should read ( about $200 + ). The first thing all >>Mac programmers need is Inside Macintosh I-V ( yep that's right, all >>FIVE volumes costing between $20 and $27 each ) These tomes will in >>NO way teach you to program the Mac, it will simply tell you the routines >>and how to access them. I don't think you need Inside Mac to get started. The Chernikoff books give you enough detail to do the kind of programming a beginner would want to do without overloading them with information that makes no sense. In some ways, you may be better off avoiding IM to start with, since the sheer amount of information will be depressing. Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in their home. Ken Olson, President, Digital Equiptment, 1977
gillies@uiucdcsp.cs.uiuc.edu (02/25/88)
It is a pity it costs so many $$$ to become a Mac programmer. First,
I don't think Inside Macintosh is all that well-written (concise), but
it certainly seems complete. Also, I think you can skip volume 3,
which mostly summarizes volume 1 and 2. So the total cost is $24.95*3
+ $26.95 which is $101.80.
Someone should sell a 700 page book, or perhaps two floppies in
MacWrite Format, for $40 that tells all.
Don Gillies {ihnp4!uiucdcs!gillies} U of Illinois
{gillies@p.cs.uiuc.edu}levin@bbn.com (Joel B Levin) (02/26/88)
In article <7390003@hpindda.HP.COM> atchison@hpindda.HP.COM (Lee Atchison) writes: . . . [about needing Inside Mac Vols I - V] :I disagree. If you don't have a MacSE or a MacII, you don't need volume V. :You can also get away without volume IV if you don't use any Mac PLUS :specific stuff. . . . Without IV, how do you learn to deal with HFS, SCSI, Zoom boxes, etc? Without V, how do you learn to deal with new TextEdit (and whatever else non-II or non-SE that was added if anything)? No, you don't >need< IV or V for a lot of stuff, but you won't be able to do things (easily) that you see other people doing -- not because you don't have the machine, but because you don't know how they work. /JBL UUCP: {harvard, husc6, etc.}!bbn!levin ARPA: levin@bbn.com
chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (02/26/88)
>Without IV, how do you learn to deal with HFS, SCSI, Zoom boxes, etc? >Without V, how do you learn to deal with new TextEdit (and whatever >else non-II or non-SE that was added if anything)? > >No, you don't >need< IV or V for a lot of stuff, but you won't be able >to do things (easily) that you see other people doing -- not because >you don't have the machine, but because you don't know how they work. For a beginning programmer, all you need is SFGetFile. Why should a beginning programmer touch SCSI? We're talking about a new programmer here. Once they get their feet wet, they can pick up the missing volumes as they find they need or want the information. I've STILL never needed SCSI information, and I strongly avoid touching the file system at lower than the SFGetFile level as much as possible. Why should I? chuq
dtw@F.GP.CS.CMU.EDU (Duane Williams) (02/27/88)
In <104700005@uiucdcsp> Don Gillies {ihnp4!uiucdcs!gillies} writes: | It is a pity it costs so many $$$ to become a Mac programmer. First, | I don't think Inside Macintosh is all that well-written (concise), but | it certainly seems complete. Also, I think you can skip volume 3, | which mostly summarizes volume 1 and 2. So the total cost is $24.95*3 | + $26.95 which is $101.80. I wouldn't join APDA solely to purchase Inside Macintosh, but APDA does sell it much cheaper than the retail price. You can get all *five* volumes from APDA for $86 + shipping fees. (Four of them are $18 each and one is $14.) Duane Williams dtw@cs.cmu.edu
dtw@F.GP.CS.CMU.EDU (Duane Williams) (02/27/88)
I read Macintosh Revealed after reading most of Inside Macintosh, vols. 1-2, and after developing a basic skeleton Mac program. I didn't feel that I learned much from Macintosh Revealed, and it was clear to me that it was no substitute (as a reference) for Inside Macintosh. I think that a person could make a reasonable start programming the Mac by reading I.M. 1-2 carefully, and getting a copy of one of the public domain skeleton programs -- such as Paul Dubois' TransSkel package. The primary version of TransSkel is available for LightspeedC (which is one of the best development systems for the Mac), but there is a Pascal translation available (if you must use an inferior language). Duane Williams dtw@cs.cmu.edu
mw2k+@andrew.cmu.edu (Miles Asher Weissman) (02/28/88)
As I stated earlier: >The first thing all >Mac programmers need is Inside Macintosh I-V ( yep that's right, all >FIVE volumes costing between $20 and $27 each ) >... > In conclusion, you will not get away without buying IM I-V, or >at least having all 5 vols around when your are programming. Now Let me eat my words: I jumped the gun slightly when saying a BEGINNER needed all five volumes. Actually Chuq is right when he said a beginner can get buy with one or two books like Mac Revealed. However, if anyone wants to do some serious programming/hacking I would recommend at least reading the first four volumes if not having them on hand when working. So since I started this ...argument?, let me try to put it to rest. If there is some sort of problem to the above, flame away, but I believe the general consensus on the net is illustrated above. Miles Weissman mw2k@andrew.cmu.edu Acting President CMU Mac Users Group Carnegie Mellon
smethers@psu-cs.UUCP (Paul Smethers) (03/03/88)
In article <2532@usceast.UUCP> pgn@usceast.UUCP (Paul Nevai) writes: > >AND buy Programmer's Extender, Professional version with full source codes, >AND buy Programming with MPW by Joel West, >ANMD buy Objetc-Oriented Prog. for the Mac by K. Schmucker >AND buy How to write Mac Software by Scott Knaster >etc. AND buy Prototyper. Paul Smethers SmethersBarnes
smethers@psu-cs.UUCP (Paul Smethers) (03/03/88)
In article <104700005@uiucdcsp> gillies@uiucdcsp.cs.uiuc.edu writes: > >It is a pity it costs so many $$$ to become a Mac programmer. First, >I don't think Inside Macintosh is all that well-written (concise), but >it certainly seems complete. Also, I think you can skip volume 3, I think it is very well written compared to other programming manuals for operating systems. Have you ever seen the documentation for MS Windows, OS/2, X-Windows, or, for that matter, even Unix? Most other systems are not documented completely, and where they fall short the manufactures can come back later and bite you. Apple has been very good about trying to establish guidelines that they promise to try to support in future versions, and these guidelines are documented in Inside Mac. Yes, I agree that in itself you will not get very far in programming, but it is one of the best reference manuals I have ever seen. Paul Smethers SmethersBarnes