alcmist@well.UUCP (Frederick Wamsley) (05/22/88)
In article <2729@polyslo.UUCP> dorourke@polyslo.UUCP (David O'Rourke) writes: > I think one of the RUMORED features of MPW 3.0 will be souce level debugging. More than a rumor. Apple showed the MPW source-level debugger, SADE, at last month's developer's conference. It has a user interface like the MPW Shell, a built-in programming language for doing complicated things at breakpoints, and (if I remember right) formatted displays of data structures. -- Fred Wamsley {dual,hplabs}!well!alcmist;well!alcmist@lll-crg.arpa; CIS 72247,3130; GEnie FKWAMSLEY;ATT Mail fwamsley; USPS - why bother? "Last year they got food poisoning. This year they got Bill Gates."
dorourke@polyslo.UUCP (David O'Rourke) (05/23/88)
In article <6010@well.UUCP> alcmist@well.UUCP (Frederick Wamsley) writes: >More than a rumor. Apple showed the MPW source-level debugger, SADE, at >last month's developer's conference. It has a user interface like the >MPW Shell, a built-in programming language for doing complicated things Fantastic!! Any Idea's about when it will be released to the general public, and does it have to compile down to larger code which runs slower when you want to the do the symbolic debugging, or did they come up with some neat way of doing so that you don't have to worry about if your going to be debugging it. -- David M. O'Rourke Disclaimer: I don't represent the school. All opinions are mine!
dan@Apple.COM (Dan Allen) (05/23/88)
SADE originally stood for "Standard Apple Debugging Environment" but now stands for something like "Symbolic Application Debugging Environment". It does exist, but will NOT replace MacsBug. It can't, because it requires MultiFinder and 512K of its own RAM, so stock up on RAM. It is based on MPW 2.0 Shell sources, so it is VERY much like the MPW Shell. It looks pretty spiffy I suppose, but I'll keep using MacsBug myself... After all, everyone should understand the native language that their machine speaks.... Dan Allen Software Explorer Apple Computer
dorourke@polyslo.UUCP (David O'Rourke) (05/24/88)
In article <10893@apple.Apple.Com> dan@apple.UUCP (Dan Allen) writes: >After all, everyone should understand the native language that their >machine speaks.... Why? What if you use more than one machine. I currently have to program on at least 4 different machines a week. I thought that this is what high level languages were for! So that people don't have to know the particulars about a specific machine! I suppose that I should write my own OS also, so that I *really* understand what's going on. Summary: I don't agree with the above statement. I mean it's a nice fantisy, but I don't think it should be a requirement. -- David M. O'Rourke Disclaimer: I don't represent the school. All opinions are mine!
tom@iconsys.UUCP (Tom Kimpton) (05/27/88)
In article <2823@polyslo.UUCP> dorourke@polyslo.UUCP (David O'Rourke) writes: >In article <10893@apple.Apple.Com> dan@apple.UUCP (Dan Allen) writes: >>After all, everyone should understand the native language that their >>machine speaks.... > > Why? What if you use more than one machine. I currently have to program >on at least 4 different machines a week. I thought that this is what high >level languages were for! Presumably Dan meant that as a general statement (most declaratives are general, including this one :-), because generally most developers work on one machine (family) type. Knowing the "native" language of the machine you are on can help you do some short cuts that "higher" level languages are not implemented to make. For example, if you want to directly manipulate the current stack frame, there is no way to do it from C. -- Tom Kimpton UUCP: {ihnp4,uunet,caeco,nrc-ut}!iconsys!ron Software Development Engineer ARPANET: icon%byuadam.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu Icon International, Inc. BITNET: icon%byuadam.bitnet (multi-user acct) Orem, Utah 84058 PHONE: (801) 225-6888
sys_ms@bmc1.uu.se (05/30/88)
In article <10893@apple.Apple.Com>, dan@Apple.COM (Dan Allen) writes: > SADE originally stood for "Standard Apple Debugging Environment" but now > stands for something like "Symbolic Application Debugging Environment". > It does exist, but will NOT replace MacsBug. It can't, because it > requires MultiFinder and 512K of its own RAM, so stock up on RAM. It is > based on MPW 2.0 Shell sources, so it is VERY much like the MPW Shell. > It looks pretty spiffy I suppose, but I'll keep using MacsBug myself... > After all, everyone should understand the native language that their > machine speaks.... Is it available now? Where? How much? Mats Sundvall University of Uppsala Sweden
dan@Apple.COM (Dan Allen) (06/01/88)
Regarding availability of SADE (Standard Apple Debugging Environment or whatever it means today) and of MacsBug 6.0 are as follows: MacsBug 6.0 B1 - Available now through APDA (I'm told) SADE - Available this year, later, hopefully. Definitely not now. MPW 3.0 - Same as SADE. Sorry I cannot be more specific, but that's life with big projects like MPW. For the record, the MPW group is now almost 50 engineers! Quite a bunch of engineering going on. It was a bit much for me, so I left to join the HyperCard engineering team: 4 people. That's more my size... Dan Allen Software Explorer Apple Computer