leeke@glacier.STANFORD.EDU (Steven D. Leeke) (06/01/88)
I would like to be able to use something like the resource manager for
a database since it does so many things well, but the resource mgr itself
is out due to performance limitations on large files and the upper limit of
2727 resources/file.
I should start by asking if there is a way to augment or "fix" the
resource mgr to get beyond these limitations? Would multiple (ugh) resource
files be a reasonable option?
In light of this, what database toolkits (source or binaries) are
available to help support an application with 30-40 distinct object types,
10-20 fields per object type, several thousand object instances, and
the need to look-up & return an object by type and serial number? Many
objects reference or contain other objects.
We have ctree source and while it might do the job it is a generic toolkit.
At this point in the project I would really like to plug in a library to
get the needed functionality. Also, as the resource mgr does, it would
be preferable to run out of one logical file, but this isn't a hard and fast
rule.
Finally, functionality is more important than price, i.e. we need to get the
project completed...
Many thanks for any help anyone can offer,
Steve Leeke
--
Steven D. Leeke, Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University
{ucbvax,decvax}!decwrl!glacier!leeke, leeke@glacier.stanford.edu
"I suppose they don't use money in the 23rd century?"leeke@glacier.UUCP (06/01/88)
References:
I would like to be able to use something like the resource manager for
a database since it does so many things well, but the resource mgr itself
is out due to performance limitations on large files and the upper limit of
2727 resources/file.
I should start by asking if there is a way to augment or "fix" the
resource mgr to get beyond these limitations? Would multiple (ugh) resource
files be a reasonable option?
In light of this, what database toolkits (source or binaries) are
available to help support an application with 30-40 distinct object types,
10-20 fields per object type, several thousand object instances, and
the need to look-up & return an object by type and serial number? Many
objects reference or contain other objects.
We have ctree source and while it might do the job it is a generic toolkit.
At this point in the project I would really like to plug in a library to
get the needed functionality. Also, as the resource mgr does, it would
be preferable to run out of one logical file, but this isn't a hard and fast
rule.
Finally, functionality is more important than price, i.e. we need to get the
project completed...
Many thanks for any help anyone can offer,
Steve Leeke
--
Steven D. Leeke, Center for Integrated Systems, Stanford University
{ucbvax,decvax}!decwrl!glacier!leeke, leeke@glacier.stanford.edu
"I suppose they don't use money in the 23rd century?"dan@Apple.COM (Dan Allen) (06/02/88)
Using the Resource Manager for a database manager is *** NOT RECOMMENDED **. PERIOD. The Resource Manager is moderately good at doing what is was designed to do: handle a few dozen MENUs, DLOGs, CODE segments, etc. The Resource Manager was speeded up quite a bit from the 64K ROMs to the 128K ROMs, but it still is largely a linear critter. Binary trees and the like are definitely needed for writing good database stuff, and the Resource Manager simply doesn't do it. You may not expect the following recommendation, but depending upon what your data is, Apple does supply a very nice database tookit for the Macintosh: HyperCard. It has **VERY** sophisticated search techniques and supports text, graphics, and sound quite nicely. You can use XCMDs, written in C and/or Pascal, to extend HyperCard. Now I know that HyperCard is not the answer to many database problems. It is certainly **NOT** a relational database. If you are looking for those kind of database toolkits, then the BTrieve/generic C type stuff is probably as good a canned stuff as you are going to find. And I know very little about those, so I can't help you with them. Dan Allen Software Explorer Apple Computer
cca@pur-phy (Charles C. Allen) (06/03/88)
In article <11434@apple.Apple.Com>, dan@Apple.COM (Dan Allen) writes: > Using the Resource Manager for a database manager is *** NOT RECOMMENDED > **. PERIOD. > > The Resource Manager is moderately good at doing what is was designed to > do: handle a few dozen MENUs, DLOGs, CODE segments, etc. The Resource > Manager was speeded up quite a bit from the 64K ROMs to the 128K ROMs, > but it still is largely a linear critter. Binary trees and the like are > definitely needed for writing good database stuff, and the Resource > Manager simply doesn't do it. Actually, an upgrade to the Resource Manager so that it is faster, can handle larger numbers of resources, simultaneous access over a network, etc., is very high on my wish list. It seems this would solve a number of difficulties in one swell foop (slow Desktop file access, using a different mechanism for accessing large #'s of "resources", etc.). It seems that this should be looked at while the IAC and IPC stuff is being worked on. Maybe a letter campaign to Apple would help :-). Charlie Allen cca@newton.physics.purdue.edu
anson@spray.CalComp.COM (Ed Anson) (06/06/88)
In article <1173@pur-phy> cca@pur-phy (Charles C. Allen) writes: > >Actually, an upgrade to the Resource Manager so that it is faster, can >handle larger numbers of resources, simultaneous access over a >network, etc., is very high on my wish list. I second the motion!!! -- ===================================================================== Ed Anson, Calcomp Display Products Division, Hudson NH 03051 (603) 885-8712, anson@elrond.CalComp.COM
dan@Apple.COM (Dan Allen) (06/10/88)
In article <728@taux01.UUCP> taux01!cyosta@nsc.UUCP (Yossie Silverman) writes: >In article <11434@apple.Apple.Com> dan@apple.UUCP (Dan Allen) writes: >>Using the Resource Manager for a database manager is *** NOT RECOMMENDED >>**. PERIOD. >> >Now I don't know about this. You see, I know these people who wrote an entire >database (of 4D quality) on a mac using the resource manager as the database >manager. They were aware of the shortcommings of the resource manager as far >as speed goes so they wrote a patch for it which made it work somewhat faster >(I seem to recall something like 50 times (yes) faster). These patches even *** PERSONAL OPINION (NOT APPLE'S) FLAME ON *** 4D Quality? I believe it. 4th Dimension and dBaseMac are slow and terrible programs. They are huge, slow, complicated, and buggy. The Resource Manager is a bit better. *** END OF DAN ALLEN PERSONAL OPINION WORTH WHAT YOU PAID FOR IT *** I hope that the Resource Manager could be improved, and I know that many would like to have a ToolBox level Database Manager. I believe that Apple is aware of this need and is trying to do something about it. Dan Allen
tedj@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Ted Johnson) (06/10/88)
*** PERSONAL OPINION (NOT APPLE'S) FLAME ON *** > >4D Quality? I believe it. 4th Dimension and dBaseMac are slow and >terrible programs. They are huge, slow, complicated, and buggy. The >Resource Manager is a bit better. > Ha! Ha! Ha! I just love to see pompous jerks (the 4th D people) get flamed!!!! -Ted
chuq@plaid.Sun.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (06/12/88)
>>4D Quality? I believe it. 4th Dimension and dBaseMac are slow and >>terrible programs. They are huge, slow, complicated, and buggy. The >>Resource Manager is a bit better. >Ha! Ha! Ha! I just love to see pompous jerks (the 4th D people) get flamed!!!! Yeah, so do I. But I'll leave the flaming to someone else. As someone who's been working fairly intensively with 4D for a number of months, I think it's a good program. It has some strengths and weaknesses (and it could be faster for some large operations, something that is being addressed by Acius) but I've found in my work that in most cases, there's no noticable sludginess. What is the difference between a program that works as fast as you do and one that works faster that you can? Effectively, nothing. If you want to see what I think about 4D, no holds barred, keep an eye on Macintosh Horizons, where an indepth series of articles (about 12,000 words and a complete database, total) is being published. Or you can listen to people who love to flame without any recourse to things like facts. chuq (freelancing for, among other things, Mac Horizons) Chuq Von Rospach chuq@sun.COM Delphi: CHUQ Robert A. Heinlein: 1907-1988. He will never truly die as long as we read his words and speak his name. Rest in Peace.
cyosta@taux01.UUCP (Yossie Silverman) (06/14/88)
In article <56225@sun.uucp> chuq@sun.UUCP (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: >>>4D Quality? I believe it. 4th Dimension and dBaseMac are slow and >>>terrible programs. They are huge, slow, complicated, and buggy. The >>>Resource Manager is a bit better. > >>Ha! Ha! Ha! I just love to see pompous jerks (the 4th D people) get flamed!!!! >Yeah, so do I. But I'll leave the flaming to someone else. I didn't mean to slander 4D. I have used it a little and I like it. I was trying to state that the DB in question (the one that used the patched resource manager) provided database capabilities comparable to 4D. I have also played around with dBaseMac and it seems a pretty good DB as well. If you want to slader a trashy DB, why not go after the mainframe DBs, like IBMs SQL (which I have the great misfortune to have to write an application using). 4D has a much broader set of database access and setup functions not to mention its superior search capabilities. I think it is very nice to have a better database on a small machine like the mac than on a large machine like an IBM mainframe. Just comes to show you. Regarding that other DB (the unnamed one that uses the Rscs Manager), I wish I could provide some specifics, it was nice. -- Yossie Silverman What did the Caspian sea? National Semiconductor Ltd. (Israel) - Saki UUCP: taux01!yossie@nsc.UUCP NSA LSD FBI KGB PCP CIA MOSAD NUCLEAR MI5 SPY ASSASSINATE SDI -- OOCLAY ITAY