alexis@dasys1.UUCP (Alexis Rosen) (07/15/88)
Recently I purchased Symantec's Utilities for the Macintosh ("SUM"). It has
been getting good word-of-mouth, and my previous experience with MacZAP,
its progenitor, has been good.
Besides a new MacZAP, there are some other utilities in SUM. One, called
guardian, keeps a duplicate copy of your directory. This makes recovery
easy if you delete a file or initialize your hard disk. Another is a file
optimizer somewhat like DiskExpress or PowerOP. So far, so good.
There is also a combination INIT and DA which allows you to create parti-
tions on your hard disk (not SCSI partitions, but invisible HFS files which
the DA mounts as individual hard disks). The INIT presumably installs the
drivers to read partitions, and auto-mounts partitions. The DA mounts,
creates, and deletes partitions.
***** DO NOT USE THIS DA AND INIT!!!!! EVER!!!!! *****
On a Mac II with a clean system 4.2, unifinder, and three inits (Suitcase,
PramFix, and the Partition INIT in question), this DA destroyed partitions
which I had created only moments after I threw out the other copies of my
files. This is a 100% reproducible error: After mounting any partition,
ANY FURTHER ATTEMPTS TO MOUNT ANY PARTITION WILL DESTROY THAT PARTITION
IMMEDIATELY, WITHOUT ANY NOTICE. For those of you who have files in a SUM
partition, you can get them out safely by NEVER mounting more than one
partition in one invocation of the DA.
To add insult to injury, there is a feature of the new MacZAP HFS Recover
program which makes it easy to restore damaged partitions... but... when
run it only recovers a few of the lost files!
>>>>>>>>>> FLAME ON!!!!! <<<<<<<<<
This is the most inexcusable, irresponsible, idiotic, egregious blunder I
have ever seen from a "reputable" software company. Even worse, I can't
just say "never buy from Symantec," because they have also produced some
of the best software ever written for the Macintosh. Lightspeed Pascal
and Lightspeed C, for example. Q&A for PMS-DOS is a wonderful program (if
you must use MS-DOS...)
I can only conclude that this bug is a fluke, and that the programmer
responsible for this is utterly irresponsible, incompetent, or both. I
hope that the programmer gets another job in another industry soon, because
if he (or she) ever works again, it will endanger more people!
While I'm at it I'd also like to roast Symantec's testing and QA people.
They really fell down on the job this time!
(flame off)
I wonder who wrote the guardian program- the author of MacZAP or the author
of the partition software? If the latter, I wouldn't put too much faith in
that guardian, at least until a LOT of testing is done. What about the file
de-fragmenter? That could also do a lot of damage.
(Now if I find out that the author of MacZAP IS the author of the partition
software, I will really be worried. MacZAP has always worked wonders before.
I hope they are different people...)
Symantec- Consider this a bug report. I urge you to immediately recall this
product until a fix is provided. It will cost me hours to recreate what I
lost. The cost to others may be far worse.
--
Alexis Rosen {allegra,philabs,cmcl2}!phri\
Writing from {bellcore,harpo,cmcl2}!cucard!dasys1!alexis
The Big Electric Cat {portal,well,sun}!hoptoad/
Public UNIX if mail fails: ...cmcl2!cucard!cunixc!abr1moriarty@tc.fluke.COM (Jeff Meyer) (07/17/88)
In article <5579@dasys1.UUCP> alexis@dasys1.UUCP (Alexis Rosen) writes: >On a Mac II with a clean system 4.2, unifinder, and three inits (Suitcase, >PramFix, and the Partition INIT in question), this DA destroyed partitions >which I had created only moments after I threw out the other copies of my >files. This is a 100% reproducible error: After mounting any partition, >ANY FURTHER ATTEMPTS TO MOUNT ANY PARTITION WILL DESTROY THAT PARTITION >IMMEDIATELY, WITHOUT ANY NOTICE. For those of you who have files in a SUM >partition, you can get them out safely by NEVER mounting more than one >partition in one invocation of the DA. >[...] >>>>>>>>>>> FLAME ON!!!!! <<<<<<<<< > >This is the most inexcusable, irresponsible, idiotic, egregious blunder I >have ever seen from a "reputable" software company. Even worse, I can't >just say "never buy from Symantec," because they have also produced some >of the best software ever written for the Macintosh. Lightspeed Pascal >and Lightspeed C, for example. Q&A for PMS-DOS is a wonderful program (if >you must use MS-DOS...) > >I can only conclude that this bug is a fluke, and that the programmer >responsible for this is utterly irresponsible, incompetent, or both. I >hope that the programmer gets another job in another industry soon, because >if he (or she) ever works again, it will endanger more people! > >While I'm at it I'd also like to roast Symantec's testing and QA people. >They really fell down on the job this time! Two things: 1) Why couldn't it be some interaction with Pramfix or Suitcase? Sound like more testing needs to be done, especially since it worked fine on my hard disk (Mac Plus, 2.5 Megs, lots of INITs). How about *asking others* whether they've seen this problem before accusing people of being incompetents? 2) If this is the most "idiotic, egregious blunder" you've ever seen from a computer company, you're forgetting your complaint a few days ago about HyperCard compaction, which was "inexcusable". How about a little less beating of the chest and hyperbole, and a little more accuate information, eh? "When people are least sure, they are often most dogmatic." -- John Kenneth Galbraith "I have discovered that all human evil comes from this, man's being unable to sit still in a room." -- Blaise Pascal --- Moriarty, aka Jeff Meyer INTERNET: moriarty@tc.fluke.COM Manual UUCP: {uw-beaver, sun, microsoft}!fluke!moriarty CREDO: You gotta be Cruel to be Kind... <*> DISCLAIMER: Do what you want with me, but leave my employers alone! <*>
werner@utastro.UUCP (Werner Uhrig) (07/17/88)
In article <5579@dasys1.UUCP> alexis@dasys1.UUCP (Alexis Rosen) writes: > On a Mac II with a clean system 4.2, unifinder, and three inits (Suitcase, > PramFix, and the Partition INIT in question), this DA destroyed partitions > which I had created only moments after I threw out the other copies of my > files. This is a 100% reproducible error: After mounting any partition, > ANY FURTHER ATTEMPTS TO MOUNT ANY PARTITION WILL DESTROY THAT PARTITION > IMMEDIATELY, WITHOUT ANY NOTICE. while I sympathize with the anguish induced by losing a hard-disk, this article is so full of "bad vibes" and so incomplete in information (no version INFO of INITs), and so invalid a test (why didn't you try with a plain Apple system, i.e. no additional INITs), that the combination of this did not make me feel even like responding - much less to bring it to the attention of the author(s) of SUM (with whom I'd like to stay friends after all). With the attitude Alexis displays here, I'd not even give him the phone number to try his luck himself. I just thought, that Alexis should know that YOU CAN SHOOT YOURSELF IN THE FOOT - even here on the net ..... > the programmer > responsible for this is utterly irresponsible, incompetent, or both. I > hope that the programmer gets another job in another industry soon, because > if he (or she) ever works again, it will endanger more people! I'd defend your freedom of speech to say that - but YOU deserve to suffer the consequences of a lawsuit for "defamation"... as far as I am concerned, the reputation that just got destroyed here is the one of the poster of such irresponsible public utterings, Mr. Alexis Rosen, who with such an article, not only tarnishes SUM and all people and companies associated with it, but also the site (dasys1.uucp) he himself is associated with by virtue of posting from it. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ send Email to: werner@rascal.ics.utexas.edu (Internet: 128.83.144.1) .....!cs.utexas.edu!rascal.ics.utexas.edu!werner alternative: werner@astro.as.utexas.edu or werner@utastro.UUCP
singer@endor.harvard.edu (Rich Siegel) (07/18/88)
In article <5579@dasys1.UUCP> alexis@dasys1.UUCP (Alexis Rosen) writes: [Warns of problems with Partitioning software] > >To add insult to injury, there is a feature of the new MacZAP HFS Recover >program which makes it easy to restore damaged partitions... but... when >run it only recovers a few of the lost files! Do you realize that there can be cases in which a volume is so badly munged that no recovery utility can resurrect it? In your particular, the fact that only a few filess were recovered is due to the fact that the partitioning software trashed the partition, NOT THAT THE RECOVERY UTILITY IS DEFECTIVE. If you're going to bitch, at least bitch at the right software. >>>>>>>>>>> FLAME ON!!!!! <<<<<<<<< And I'll turn my own flamethrower on as well. >This is the most inexcusable, irresponsible, idiotic, egregious blunder I >have ever seen from a "reputable" software company. Even worse, I can't Have you every hear dof Microsoft Word version 3.0? >I can only conclude that this bug is a fluke, and that the programmer >responsible for this is utterly irresponsible, incompetent, or both. I You're half right (and therefore, half wrong. I don't know the exact circumstances, but I understand that the defective partition DA *was* a fluke, and that it's already fixed. (I'll see if I can post it to comp.binaries.mac, because in spite of your idiotic comments, there iis something to be said for good software support. >hope that the programmer gets another job in another industry soon, because >if he (or she) ever works again, it will endanger more people! If Les Herbst quits programming, there will never be another version of SUM, EVER. How would you like that? >While I'm at it I'd also like to roast Symantec's testing and QA people. >They really fell down on the job this time! Not as I understand it. Like I said, this particular problem was a fluke that made it in between final QA and production. You can't place blame anywhere. >(flame off) > >I wonder who wrote the guardian program- the author of MacZAP or the author >of the partition software? If the latter, I wouldn't put too much faith in >that guardian, at least until a LOT of testing is done. What about the file >de-fragmenter? That could also do a lot of damage. ANY disk utility can do damage. The QA testing ensures that IF CORRECTLY USED, the product will not damage your disk. If it's any comfort, I've used HD TuneUp (the defragmenter), and have not had any problems. (I still use it now...) >(Now if I find out that the author of MacZAP IS the author of the partition >software, I will really be worried. MacZAP has always worked wonders before. >I hope they are different people...) Why are you so worried?? Because you've found a bug, you'll instantly assume that the whole package is bugridden and unusable? If this is the way you think, then I urge you NOT to buy any more software. >Symantec- Consider this a bug report. I urge you to immediately recall this >product until a fix is provided. It will cost me hours to recreate what I >lost. The cost to others may be far worse. I don't yet know what the fix will be; I suspect a mailing to registered owners and a posting to the info services, but since I don't make the policies, don't hold me to that. (FLAME OFF) I apologize for the tone of my posting, but sometimes.... --Rich Rich Siegel Symantec (THINK Division, if anyone cares)
dxjsb@dcatla.UUCP (Jack S. Brindle) (07/18/88)
Rich Seigel Writes: > Not as I understand it. Like I said, this particular problem was a > fluke that made it in between final QA and production. You can't place > blame anywhere. Come on Rich... It made it in between final QA & production? Sounds like y'all were rushing things more than just a bit. An addition to the package should have caused a return to QA for more testing. It appears that in the rush to get the package out y'all bypassed the proper procedures so that it wouldn't be late. Of course, the end user suffers. Perhaps someone at Symmantec SHOULD be transferred, or at least made to answer the tech support lines. Of course, Symmantec is not the only company to do this. But that does not make it right, either. Jack Brindle