tedj@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Ted Johnson) (07/17/88)
Is anyone besides me getting frustrated at the lack of LSC (or at least MPW C) examples in MacTutor? The last 2 (or was it 3?) issue haven't had any C articles!!! Isn't C the language of the 80's, as well as the most popular Mac programming language? iHowever, they *do* consistently have Forth (gee, how many of us use that?), Basic, asm, and Pascal articles. Pascal I can cope with, but Basic and Forth are pretty useless, as far as I'm concerned. Sure, I can usually pick out the algorithm that the author is explaining, but this is a lot less useful than just typing in the code verbatim and using it in my LSC application. If others agree with me, why don't you let MacTutor know? I'm writing a letter to David Smith (the publisher/editor), at: MacTutor P.O. Box 400 Placentia, CA 92670 -Ted
dtani@bbn.com (Dan Tani) (07/18/88)
From article <730043@hpcilzb.HP.COM>, by tedj@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Ted Johnson): > > Is anyone besides me getting frustrated at the lack of LSC (or at least > MPW C) examples in MacTutor? > > The last 2 (or was it 3?) issue haven't had any C articles!!! > Isn't C the language of the 80's, as well as the most popular > Mac programming language? > I agree completely!!! I was thinking just this thought this weekend when I got my latest copy. Yea, if I were a MAC guru, I'd be able to extract handy tips from the FORTH, ASM and BASIC examples, but I thought I was using the "standard" programming language - LSC!!!!. I'm writing to MacTutor today! I'm Mad as Hell and I'm not going to read FORTH Code any more!!!!! Dan Tani DTANI@BBN.COM
shane@chianti.cc.umich.edu (Shane Looker) (07/18/88)
In article <730043@hpcilzb.HP.COM> tedj@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Ted Johnson) writes: > >Is anyone besides me getting frustrated at the lack of LSC (or at least >MPW C) examples in MacTutor? > >The last 2 (or was it 3?) issue haven't had any C articles!!! >Isn't C the language of the 80's, as well as the most popular >Mac programming language? > >iHowever, they *do* consistently have Forth (gee, how many of us use that?), >Basic, asm, and Pascal articles. Pascal I can cope with, but Basic and >Forth are pretty useless, as far as I'm concerned. Sure, I can usually > >-Ted You may consider the articles useless, but many people may not. (This isn't the thrust of this posint.) I suspect that the reason that there are not enough C articles is that not enough good quality articles are being submitted for publication. An editor can only publish what is offered. If you want some more articles, write them and try to sell them. Ask for the submission guidelines for articles. Don't just complain, help fix the problem. (And I am hoping to get an article or two written by the end of the year on some really esoteric hacking I've been working on.) Shane Looker Looker@um.cc.umich.edu
palevich@Apple.COM (Jack Palevich) (07/18/88)
I suspect that there are two reasons why MacTutor has so many articles on Basic and Forth: 1) These languages are compact enough that a four-page article can include listings that actually do something. 2) These languages have core groups of enthusiastic supporters who are willing to write articles and submit them to MacTutor. Why not write an article on the latest nifty XCMD you've written in LSC and submit it to MacTutor -- I'm sure they'd be delighted to receive more C and Pascal articles. Jack Palevich, Apple Computer, Inc. Disclaimer: I buy MacTutor, but have no other connection with the magazine. The opinions in this message are my own.
mnkonar@srcsip.UUCP (Murat N. Konar) (07/19/88)
Expires: References: <730043@hpcilzb.HP.COM> <27096@bbn.COM> Sender: Reply-To: mnkonar@ely.UUCP (Murat N. Konar) Followup-To: Distribution: Organization: Honeywell Systems & Research Center, Camden, MN Keywords: >> Is anyone besides me getting frustrated at the lack of LSC (or at least >> MPW C) examples in MacTutor? >> >> The last 2 (or was it 3?) issue haven't had any C articles!!! >> Isn't C the language of the 80's, as well as the most popular >> Mac programming language? >> >I agree completely!!! I was thinking just this thought this weekend when I >got my latest copy. Yea, if I were a MAC guru, I'd be able to extract handy >tips from the FORTH, ASM and BASIC examples, but I thought I was using the >"standard" programming language - LSC!!!!. I'm writing to MacTutor today! >I'm Mad as Hell and I'm not going to read FORTH Code any more!!!!! Whoa, there! There was a really nice article a couple of issues back on implementing floating palettes (ala Hypercard, MacPaint 2. 0) that was ENTIRELY IN C! (Available on MacTutor Source Code Disk #31.) It showed how to float your windows and also how to code WDEF's within your source code without smashing the heap. I was frustrated because I am an LSP person myself, but I managed to tran slate the WDEF into Pascal without too much difficulty. The point is, if you can figure out what some one is doing in another langu age, the same tricks can usually be used in your fave language too. BTW, QuickDraw and much of the ROM was originally written in Pa scal, you know, so the argument could be made (but i won't make it here) that Pascal is really the Mac's native language. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- The above thoughts are my own. We are not paid to think. MNK
dxjsb@dcatla.UUCP (Jack S. Brindle) (07/19/88)
Ted Johnson writes: > Is anyone besides me getting frustrated at the lack of LSC (or at least > MPW C) examples in MacTutor? Now that you mention it... > The last 2 (or was it 3?) issue haven't had any C articles!!! > Isn't C the language of the 80's, as well as the most popular > Mac programming language? Well, at least I have been using it almost exclusively for several years now. Most of my programming-type friends are using it, too. > However, they *do* consistently have Forth (gee, how many of us use that?), > Basic, asm, and Pascal articles. Pascal I can cope with, but Basic and > Forth are pretty useless, as far as I'm concerned. Sure, I can usually > pick out the algorithm that the author is explaining, but this is a lot > less useful than just typing in the code verbatim and using it in my > LSC application. I'm not sure I can go along with that. Yes, I generally skip the BASIC articles. They generally cover end-user topics and how-to-do-it-in-BASIC type of things. I do find it absolutely amazing the things that these guys are able to do on the Mac in BASIC. Kind of makes one wonder if maybe we crusty C types should re-evaluate BASIC. But, Although I don't program in FORTH, I DO read Jorg's articles. He writes pretty well. Well enough that I understand what is going on. His disk driver articles were a lot of help. In fact, he has written a lot of stuff that many readers have found both interesting and useful. He programs in FORTH for the same reason I program in C; BECAUSE HE WANTS TO. There is another point. He contributes to the magazine! > If others agree with me, why don't you let MacTutor know? I'm writing a > letter to David Smith (the publisher/editor), at: > > MacTutor > P.O. Box 400 > Placentia, CA 92670 Yes, please do write. Only first write a program and article so that you will have something meaningful to put in the magazine instead of a flame about the lack of whatever you might want to see published. I bet someone would actually like to see some MS-DOS articles put in the mag (well, using an AST card...) The point is, David can only publish what he has. If he gets only Pascal/BASIC/Forth/... articles, then that is what he publishes. Writing letters won't help out if he has no articles. The best thing to do, then is to write an article using the techniques or topics that you wish to see. I'm sure that David will accept the articles if you mail them to the above MacTutor address. He might even pay you for them. But unless they get written, he certainly can't publish them! There is one small problem with writing articles for a magazine. The issue they are published in is both exciting and a letdown for the writer. On the one hand, your article is finally in print! Thousands of others will read the info you worked hard to write. (This is actually quite neat. I recommend everyone writing an article to experience this). The letdown? Well, you have already read the article. So that is one less thing for you to read from the magazine... i So rather than gripe about the lack of your favorite article, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! How about it... > -Ted Jack Brindle
tedj@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Ted Johnson) (07/19/88)
>If you want some more articles, write them and try to sell them. Ask for the >submission guidelines for articles. Don't just complain, help fix the >problem. I did! 4 months ago! It took MacTutor that long to acknowledge receiving it. It was sent return receipt requested, so I know it got delivered 4 months ago. After 6 weeks with no word, I sent a followup letter. After they ignored that, I just forgot all about it. Imagine my surprise when I got a form letter from them saying "we just got your article, and are in the process of reviewing it". I just got e-mail from someone who submitted an article 12 months ago, and is still getting the runaround. And David Philip Oster, who wrote that wierd staircase program a while back (with the continually-increasing tone) said that the reason he wasn't posting the LSC source code to the net was because he was submitting it to MacTutor. Since MacTutor's author's guidelines offer pretty healthy compensation (to the tune of $300/article, if I remember correctly), I think that he probably *did* submit the article. >(And I am hoping to get an article or two written by the end of the year on >some really esoteric hacking I've been working on.) Good luck getting it published, if it's written in C! 1/2 :-) -Ted
drc@claris.UUCP (Dennis Cohen) (07/19/88)
In article <730043@hpcilzb.HP.COM> tedj@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Ted Johnson) writes: > >Is anyone besides me getting frustrated at the lack of LSC (or at least >MPW C) examples in MacTutor? > >The last 2 (or was it 3?) issue haven't had any C articles!!! >Isn't C the language of the 80's, as well as the most popular >Mac programming language? > >iHowever, they *do* consistently have Forth (gee, how many of us use that?), >Basic, asm, and Pascal articles. Pascal I can cope with, but Basic and >Forth are pretty useless, as far as I'm concerned. Sure, I can usually >pick out the algorithm that the author is explaining, but this is a lot >less useful than just typing in the code verbatim and using it in my >LSC application. I'm sure that David Smith is well aware of the interest in C and would be very happy to publish such articles. Has it occurred to you that it is possible that noone is submitting articles written in C at the moment? He can only publish that which is submitted -- perhaps Dave Kelly (BASIC) and Jorg Langkowski (Threaded langs) are more conscientious about getting their submissions to the magazine for publication. MacTutor has frequently put statements soliciting submissions into the magazine, but I believe that there is a tendency for people to "not get around to" polishing up a submission (I know that is the case for myself, with three semi-complete MacTutor articles on my disk). Writing for magazines is a sideline for me and has to be done on a time-available basis, I'd guess that it is the same for the majority of the other people who might submit an article in C to MacTutor. Dennis Cohen Claris ------------ Disclaimer: Any opinions expressed above are _MINE_!
thecloud@pnet06.cts.com (Ken Mcleod) (07/20/88)
[people complaining about lack of C articles in MacTutor]...
Well, there was a heated round of flaming on the Mousehole following
the publication of the last major C article (TearOff Palettes, Apr. 88).
Seems that the palette WDEF was inadvertently left out of the article,
and the source that *was* printed had several errors. Of the posts this
generated, one made it into "Mousehole Report" (see July issue).
If you're the eager hacker type, you probably try to take the source
code as published and attempt to actually make it do something. And
much of the time, you suddenly realize that part of the code is missing,
or has some subtle typo that sends your Mac to the flaming pits of hell.
I've been personally burned (more than once...it was becoming a habit)
and have learned my lesson about reading the articles, not the source
code.
Working versions of the example programs are available on disk for $8,
if you need them. But I suspect there are a lot of MacTutor readers
who would rather refer to hardcopy (and besides, they've paid for the
magazine anyway--), and if they're trying to understand some nuance of
toolbox code with a typo in it, a lot of frustration is generated.
Yes, MacTutor needs more article submissions of quality in Pascal, C,
and [insert your favorite obscure language here], but that only addresses
half the problem. I want to see MacTutor grow and prosper, not lose its
reputation as a reliable source of programming info. Sorry...didn't intend
for this to be a flame, but once I get started..... :-<
Ken McLeod ========================= ....... ======================
UUCP: {crash uunet}!pnet06!thecloud :. .: Chief Weapons of UNIX:
ARPA: crash!pnet06!thecloud@nosc.mil :::.. ..::: "Fear, surprise, and
INET: thecloud@pnet06.cts.com //// ruthless efficiency."oster@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu (David Phillip Oster) (07/21/88)
In article <730044@hpcilzb.HP.COM> tedj@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Ted Johnson) writes: >And David Phillip Oster, who wrote that wierd staircase program a while back >(with the continually-increasing tone) said that the reason he wasn't posting >the LSC source code to the net was because he was submitting it to MacTutor. Thanks for the reminder. I'll get that article in in early August. (by the way, someone at Mactutor probably reads this newsgroup: I just got an acknowledgment yesterday for the article I sent them 17 months ago, on 3-D splines using LightSpeed C and Graf3d. Let me quote from the letter I got yesterday: "P.S. Please forgive the formality of this reply, but we want to acknowledge your submission as quickly as possible." Oh well, I want to revise the part of the article where I discuss the definition of splines anyway. I've got another article ready for them on antialiased-text. Ed Falk at Sun just posted a nifty program in comp.graphics under the name: Subject: Re: Yes, it's another STUPID QUESTION... ALGORITHM POSTING He talks about combining dithering and raytracing to do arbitarily complex scenes that do animated shadow motion using color table animation. This means you can show the user a complex landscape, and as you animate the sun arcing across the sky, all the shadows are moving just the way they should. I'm very excited about this, because it tells in detail how to do it. I came up with this idea indpendently, and only as a bit of interesting technical detail for the novel: "The Paradise Tree" by Diana L. Paxson. (I was Diana's technical consultant.) Now there's a meaty three-part article for Mactutor: Part 1: Ray Tracing Part 2: Dithering Part 3: Put it all together with color table animation. --- David Phillip Oster --When you asked me to live in sin with you Arpa: oster@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu --I didn't know you meant sloth. Uucp: {uwvax,decvax,ihnp4}!ucbvax!oster%dewey.soe.berkeley.edu
erics@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Eric Schlegel) (07/21/88)
In article <730044@hpcilzb.HP.COM> tedj@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Ted Johnson) writes: >I did! 4 months ago! It took MacTutor that long to acknowledge receiving >it. It was sent return receipt requested, so I know it got delivered 4 months >ago. After 6 weeks with no word, I sent a followup letter. After they ignored >that, I just forgot all about it. Imagine my surprise when I got a form >letter from them saying "we just got your article, and are in the process of >reviewing it". > >I just got e-mail from someone who submitted an article 12 months ago, >and is still getting the runaround. I sent in an article in late December '87. After hearing nothing for several months, I sent a followup letter in May. I still haven't heard anything about either the original submission or the letter. This is especially bothersome because I have another article in the works which I'd like to send in; but I'm not going to bother until I hear something about my first submission. Eric eric.schlegel@dartmouth.edu ------ Eric Schlegel | DISCLAIMER: I'm just a poor college student, eric.schlegel@dartmouth.edu | which means I'm not responsible for what I eric.schlegel@dartvax.uucp | say and I can't pay you if you sue me anyway.
bayes@hpfcdc.HP.COM (Scott Bayes) (07/22/88)
To counter some of the flaming, I mention the very well written and coded article in the latest MacTutor, dealing with an Assembly (gasp!!) language implementation of a font-selection dialog box. I'm not yet into coding for the Mac anything but HyperTalk, but I found this article to be excellent, and the code to be meticulously written. I'd like to congratulate both the author and MacTutor (pending discovery of typos in the rather large listing) on a job well done. Scott Bayes 68K hacker
matthews@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Jim Matthews) (07/22/88)
To add another data point: I sent MacTutor an article in February. I received the standard reply letter with a cryptic comment in the corner. I waited a few months and finally called their offices. David Smith was in a conference but the guy who answered the phone explained that there was a big backlog of articles and that Smith was trying to clear it out by the August issue. He also said that authors whose articles were not printed by then would be sent a letter to update them on their status. He said that it was a good idea to submit a printed copy of the article text, since that is easier to scan than the copy on disk. About a month later I received another form letter, this time with an annotation by the assistant editor. He promised to show the article to Smith -- so maybe there's hope. My advice to waiting authors would be to call MacTutor and find out what's up. If MacTutor is holding these articles because they aren't good enough then the authors should be told. If there are just too many good articles, then either the magazine should grow or the MacTutor people should be less enthusiastic about soliciting submissions. Jim Matthews jim.matthews@dartmouth.edu
jmunkki@santra.HUT.FI (Juri Munkki) (07/22/88)
From article <730043@hpcilzb.HP.COM>, by tedj@hpcilzb.HP.COM (Ted Johnson): > Is anyone besides me getting frustrated at the lack of LSC (or at least > MPW C) examples in MacTutor? No, not really. I guess C programmers do not wish to document their code well enough for publication... or maybe C programmers are just lazy :-). In article <27096@bbn.COM> dtani@bbn.com (Dan Tani) writes: >got my latest copy. Yea, if I were a MAC guru, I'd be able to extract handy >tips from the FORTH, ASM and BASIC examples, but I thought I was using the >"standard" programming language - LSC!!!!. I think the listings are not there so that you could blindly type the code into your Mac and use it. The most important material should be in the text part of the article. The listings should be there only to prove that the principles, techniques and algorithms presented in the text really work. >I'm Mad as Hell and I'm not going to read FORTH Code any more!!!!! The problem with Forth and Basic is that you have to fight the compiler/ interpreter to get to the real Macintosh that is hidden behind tons and tons of glue. A large portion of the text is dedicated to explaining how to create wierd code. "Programming" reminds me of the "synthetic programming" that can be done a HP41C calculator. C, Pascal and Assembler are best suited for magazine articles, because the techniques can be easily adapted to other languages. Forth is not a bad language... the implementations are just too limiting. > I'm writing to MacTutor today! Good! It is surprisingly easy to get something published in MacTutor. I think that everyone who has something to say should try it... Juri Munkki jmunkki@santra.hut.fi jmunkki@fingate.bitnet Disclaimer: On a 1 to 10 scale (10=very good), this article rates a low 1.
awd@dbase.UUCP (Alastair Dallas) (07/23/88)
Yeah, but two issues ago they did Tear-Off Palettes! You're right and I agree with you that MacTutor would be better with a strong LSC orientation. I was pretty disappointed in this month's issue for its lack of LSC code. But Tear-Off Palettes was worth a few months of slim-pickings to me. On the other hand, a LightspeedC/MPW C Journal would probably be very popular... /alastair/
mikem@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu (Mike Morton) (07/23/88)
MacTutor is indeed pretty awful about acknowledging, accepting, and publishing
articles. I never submit an article until my previous one has been printed.
If it helps, other magazines aren't always a whole lot better. I've had both
BYTE and Dr. Dobb's Journal accept articles, then change their minds. At
least BYTE pays when they do this; DDJ has yet to do so, but says they will.
On the lighter side, I was pressing Dave Smith at MacTutor about a particular
article last fall. He finally admitted I didn't have to worry about whether
my article was accepted; he says in all his years of publishing MacTutor,
he's only rejected ONE article. Everything else just takes its time.
Think of it as a hard-copy newsgroup, moderated very slowly but very loosely.
-- Mike Morton // P.O. Box 11378, Honolulu, HI 96828, (808) 456-8455 HST
Internet: msm@ceta.ics.hawaii.edu
(anagrams): Mr. Machine Tool; Ethical Mormon; Chosen Immortal; etc.