fostel@ncsu.UUCP (08/03/83)
All this vile critcism of DEC! Blasphemy if you ask me. (Yeah no one
did.) If you look at history, DEC is simply acting as they always have.
Did the PDP-11 originally come with lots of neat software and a stunning
OS? The PDP-10? Even VAX, (apologies to VMS lovers) did not come complete
with what we now use on it. By and large, DEC builds iron, and it is
usually a good high carbon variety and we buy it and then do something
with it. Can you name another micro manufacturer who released their new
machine complete with enviable software existing? Have DEC machines ever
had the same zzzzzip as others? E.g. PDP-10 vs S/370, or VAX/780 vs
almost any other "super-mini". Well, were we just stupid all those years
getting stuff from DEC?
Someone said it was ludicrous that DEC had O-N-L-Y 10 megs of hard disk.
Wish I had that on my own system -- of recent vintage. What does seem
a bit silly to me is that they did not use the 11/70 chips I keep hereing
about. But maybe they are not up to snuff yet. Also seems strange that
all the PDP-11 software is not on the machine. Maybe it will be soon.
Recall, that DEC has never been an eager beaver as far as trying to
capture and corner markets. They just keep on keeping on with modest
goals and enviable stability. Do you really want to see them dragged
the hurley-burley with all the others? (And by the way, seems a lot of
folks are willing to buy new micros that until a lot of recent effort
had ZERO software.) Your expectations are too high too soon.
----GaryFostel----mjl@ritcv.UUCP (Mike Lutz) (08/06/83)
There a couple of problems with Gary Fostel's comparison of the software
(un)developed for the DEC PRO 350 and previous DEC systems. Gary says DEC
makes machines and lets the software come after, some done internally, but
mainly from the outside. (If I've misstated this, I'm sorry.) However, this
is apparently NOT the strategy for the PRO, because DEC won't let anyone see
what's under the hood. It is nigh on impossible to get any decent hardware
documentation that, say, a systems programmer would need to port UN*X to the
PRO. You're pretty well stuck with P/OS, and if you want to do any REAL
development for the PC, you'd better have a VAX with DEC's Toolkit to back you
up. What is more, the new proprietary bus makes the development of a second
source peripherals market impossible. Contrast this to IBM, whose PC inter-
nals are openly documented, and where a flourishing market has already
developed for add-on products. We've had lo-o-ong discussions with DEC on
this topic, and, quite frankly, I was not satisfied with the outcome.
The second problem is one of market. Whereas gurus, hackers, and other "pro-
fessionals" can live with a stripped down machine, the buyer's in the PC mark-
etplace see the computer as a tool. They are as unhappy with the ineffective-
ness or inappropriateness of this tool as they'd be with a car that had no en-
gine. Even BIG BLUE had to adopt markedly different strategies when it en-
tered the personal computer market. Given the relative market penetrations of
the IBM PC and the DEC PRO/350 within one year of introduction, it's obvious
to me which organization did its homework.
Mike Lutz
{allegra,seismo}!rochester!ritcv!mjl