zebolskyd@byuvax.bitnet (01/29/89)
In his message <1989Jan27.144857.1809@cs.rochester.edu>, Brad Miller asks: >The question is, why should apple have to keep the prices of their hardware >artificaily high to support developers... Apple's prices *are* _artificially_ high, not high because of overhead costs caused by a massive hemorrhage of profits due to discounts to developers. These discounts are similar to those which allow thousands of university students to afford Macs, and I doubt Apple _loses_ money in either case. The artificially high prices are a way of getting funding for their own R&D, etc., and perhaps reducing demand to levels closer to their ability to produce. >Seems to me this fee structure moves things in the >right direction: let those that benefit, pay. Do you honestly think it costs Apple $600 a year to send out a few photocopies and disks? Sure, they include AppleLink and APDA, so that might bring the effective price down to $550 or so. I don't think the fee is meant to pay for the benefits, but to weed out small developers like me. Perhaps Apple feels that the Microsofts of the world (to whom the fee is infinitesimal) are all the developers they need. The fact is, the $600 fee they won't pass up is much less than the profits they would make if even one person who has to have my product's services could buy the Mac he wants, instead of the MS-DOS machine he now would need: a product similar to mine (but with less functionality) is now available for MS-DOS machines. Microsoft, et. al., are not going to produce a speciallized program which would be bought by only a few hundred users. Heck, they haven't the necessary expertise in my field, anyway. I agree with Fred Hollander! A one-time fee (_much_ less than $600!) might serve as a hurdle for idle discount-seekers and help pay for a closer review of applications. But $600 a year is far beyond my means. I think my situation is typical of new developers: what profits there have been so far have gone into equipment and subsistance. And new developers need the technical help and equipment discounts more than anybody. The news of the high fees left me feeling a bit ill, as if a good friend had slapped me in the face. I hope Apple changes their fee policy. Or at least apologizes. Lyle D. Gunderson (zebolskyd@byuvax.bitnet) Minimal Weasel Words: Nobody's opinion but mine.
malczews@castor.usc.edu (Frank Malczewski) (01/30/89)
Apple's APDA has also become quite expensive, with the exception of MPW, which is about same price, and the new tech notes (for any given year); every thing else that they normally carry (as per when they were semi-autonomous in Washington) is either selling at list price (3rd party items) or has been pretty much doubled (and then some) in price. The TechAlliance still carries the 3rd party items at reasonable prices, so at least we weren't completely shut off from discounts. Now if APDA would get it together with Apple so that I could get my official mailing of the October&December Tech Notes from them, I wouldn't have so many things to gripe about (re: APDA). -- Frank Malczewski
tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) (01/31/89)
On this developer program foofaraw, I have a question for other software consultants. I work as an independent consultant writing software; I don't do user training, network configuration, purchase recommendations, or any other non-development consulting. I also don't particularly want to get involved in direct resale of my own products for a number of reasons, among which are a most unbusinesslike mindset. Apple refuses to give me an equipment discount because, even though all I do is develop software, I don't resell it, or so they claim. Have other consultants had this problem? Does this make even the slightest bit of sense in terms of the stated goal of the Apple developer prgram, which is to encourage software devlopment? Am I going to have to start direct resale of some trivial product just to get a discount that it seems I should have already? Any information greatly appreciated; please post to the net as it is likely of general interest. (Why don't I just discuss this with Apple? I tried at the developer program booth at MacWorld; the person I spoke with was extremely rude and obviously took it for granted I was trying to rip them off.) -- Tim Maroney, Consultant, Eclectic Software, sun!hoptoad!tim "This signature is not to be quoted." -- Erland Sommarskog
oster@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu (David Phillip Oster) (01/31/89)
I develop products for sale by marketeers. It makes no sense for the
marketeers to get the technical support: I'm the one doing the techical
end. It does make sense for them to get marketing support. I've never
been in the top tier of apple developers, with the fancy support, but my
questions have always been answered courteously and promptly.
Since I do sell a product, I had no trouble filling in Apple's paper work,
and getting the discount.
I will get annoyed about the $600.00 charge if it is required to get my
current level of support. I haven't had a chance to study the new mailing.
Hope this helps.
--- David Phillip Oster --"When we replace the mouse with a pen,
Arpa: oster@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu --3 button mouse fans will need saxophone
Uucp: {uwvax,decvax}!ucbvax!oster%dewey.soe.berkeley.edu --lessons." - Gaseewrs@Apple.COM (Walter Smith) (02/01/89)
In article <27835@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU> oster (David Phillip Oster) writes: >I will get annoyed about the $600.00 charge if it is required to get my >current level of support. I haven't had a chance to study the new mailing. >Hope this helps. In order to avoid confusion of the sort that often drags the S/N ratio of this newsgroup even lower than usual, here is a highly condensed version of the "New Developer Programs Announcement" from APDA. As of January 20, 1989, the Certified Developer Program no longer exists. It has been replaced by two new programs, the Apple Partners Program and the Apple Associates Program. The Apple Partners Program is an expanded version of the Certified Developer Program. Apple Partners are defined as "independent U.S. developers, VARs, publishers, systems integrators, and OEMs who intend to resell their products". Current Certified Developers must re-register as Apple Partners when they apply for recertification. The Apple Associates Program is intended to support corporate, higher- education, and government customers doing in-house development. Apple Associates are defined as "developers who don't intend to resell their products, but significantly influence or support development of Apple products". Those specifically mentioned are "MIS professionals, educators, scientists and researchers, computer consultants, and training providers", as well as "key industry analysts, distributors, and members of the trade press". Services both programs include: - one year AppleLink subscription with minimum monthly fees prepaid (Associates get only one month of fees) - System Software Upgrade program - optional Developer Library, a set of basic reference manuals needed for programming the appropriate platform (Apple II or Macintosh) - monthly Tech Note mailings - various newsletters, magazines, and guidebooks - access to developer training classes - APDA membership Services included only in the Apple Partners Program: - consultative tech support via E-mail - equipment discounts and service options In order to join the Apple Partners Program, you must fill out an application and submit a business plan. You must fit the above definition, of course. To join the Apple Associates Program, you must fill out an application which asks for a brief description of your development plans. After the second year of membership, Apple Partners must be able to provide a copy of a final-version, Apple-compatible product to retain their status. Fees: Partners Associates Initial sign-up fee with documentation $750 $500 without documentation $600 $350 Annual renewal fee $600 $350 For more information, write DEVSERVICES on AppleLink, or call 408-974-4897. - Walt -- Walter Smith wrs@apple.com, apple!wrs Apple Computer, Inc. (408) 974-5892 My corporation disavows any knowledge of my activities on the network.
wrs@Apple.COM (Walter Smith) (02/01/89)
AAK! I would like to emphatically DENY any connection whatsoever with Apple Developer Channels. If you don't like the new APDA, please don't flame an innocent engineer like myself. Write a letter to Sue Espinosa, Director, Apple Developer Channels. I just type the stuff in, I don't write it! - Walt -- Walter Smith wrs@apple.com, apple!wrs Apple Computer, Inc. (408) 974-5892 My corporation disavows any knowledge of my activities on the network.
zebolskyd@byuvax.bitnet (02/02/89)
Walt- Would you consider yourself terribly disloyal if you were to post Sue Espinosa's e-mail address? If I write, I will assume that, like every other Sue I know, she is basically a nice person and deserves not to be flamed at. -Lyle D. Gunderson
kevin@gtisqr.UUCP (Kevin Bagley) (02/04/89)
I was a certified developer for apple for several years. My main objective in software development was writing the software and then letting others market the product under a royaty basis. I never made a lot of money and as such, never bought a lot of products through the developer program. My total purchases through Apple totaled less than $5000.00. Was I trying to rip off Apple? I don't think so. Personnaly, I feel that now it's the other way around. I can no longer afford to pay the $600 certified developer fee. I can no longer afford to upgrade to better and more current systems. This means I will most likely not be able to continue my meager, part-time development efforts. This means others like me will be in the same boat. Finally, this means * YOU * will not get the variety or abundance of software available prior to this bad decision. If you feel jilted, like me, let Apple know. It seems that the leaders at this company have come up with a new philosophy for let's screw the little guys. Let's here it for Applenomics! -- _____ Kevin Bagley Global Tech. Int'l Inc., Mukilteo WA 98275 206-742-9111 )___) __ _ _ UUCP:uw-beaver!uw-nsr!uw-warp!gtisqr!kevin _/___) (__(__(_)_/_)_ ARPA:uw-nsr!uw-warp!gtisqr!kevin@beaver.cs.washington.edu _______________/ Disclaimer... "I did not say this. I am not here."