henry@chinet.chi.il.us (Henry C. Schmitt) (04/28/89)
I know that MacDTS is not at fault and APDA doesn't read USENET, but
I'm going to keep complaining through every available channel until
I get some Tech Notes!!
I paid $40 last year for Tech Notes on disk and only got April and
August Tech Notes. Now Apple has taken over APDA and when I asked
them they said "It won't happen again!" So I forked over another
$40 for this year's TNs - Nothing!!
It is now nearly 3 months since the February Tech Notes were issued
and APDA has _still_ not gotten them to us! When I call them, they
complain about the long time it takes to duplicate the disks. I
could duplicate them faster by hand on my Mac Plus (well, almost).
Can something be done?!? I was told that last year's missing TNs
would ship April 15th - Where are they?!? This has gone too far!!!
I'm getting close to the point where I will take further action
(i.e. legal) to get the Tech Notes!
Everyone who hasn't gotten Tech Notes post here on USENET and call
APDA _and_ write a letter! Maybe if we flood their mailbox they'll
do something!
Henry C. Schmitt
APDA Member #41134
P.S. to Mark Johnson: don't take this personally - I think you're
doing wonders to repesent MacDTS here on USENET! Thanx!
--
H3nry C. Schmitt | CompuServe: 72275,1456 (Rarely)
| GEnie: H.Schmitt (Occasionally)
Royal Inn of Yoruba | UUCP: Henry@chinet.chi.il.us (Best Bet)mjohnson@Apple.COM (Mark B. Johnson) (04/29/89)
In article <8319@chinet.chi.il.us> henry@chinet.chi.il.us (Henry C. Schmitt) writes: >I know that MacDTS is not at fault and APDA doesn't read USENET, but >I'm going to keep complaining through every available channel until >I get some Tech Notes!! > >I paid $40 last year for Tech Notes on disk and only got April and >August Tech Notes. Now Apple has taken over APDA and when I asked >them they said "It won't happen again!" So I forked over another >$40 for this year's TNs - Nothing!! > As the others, this one has been passed to the APDA representatives... Sorry, but you are doing the right thing. Complain in writing and on the telephone (it is toll free)... Mark B. Johnson AppleLink: mjohnson Developer Technical Support domain: mjohnson@Apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. UUCP: {amdahl,decwrl,sun,unisoft}!apple!mjohnson "You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it?" - Richard Bach, _One_
henry@chinet.chi.il.us (Henry C. Schmitt) (05/01/89)
It figures! About a half hour after I send my message Federal
Express shows up at my door with last year's missing Tech Notes.
No, don't faint, APDA didn't get it 100% correct, I got printed
copies not on disk like I ordered.
Well, tomorrow I'm calling and writing a letter to let them know how
I feel. Also, I saw someone mention a new APDAlog; has anyone else
gotten one, I haven't! (Knowing the way Murphy works, the Post
Office will deliver it today [Sunday] just to make me wrong! :-)
--
H3nry C. Schmitt | CompuServe: 72275,1456 (Rarely)
| GEnie: H.Schmitt (Occasionally)
Royal Inn of Yoruba | UUCP: Henry@chinet.chi.il.us (Best Bet)dplatt@coherent.com (Dave Platt) (05/02/89)
In article <8326@chinet.chi.il.us> henry@chinet.chi.il.us (Henry C. Schmitt) writes: > It figures! About a half hour after I send my message Federal > Express shows up at my door with last year's missing Tech Notes. Yup. Just like washing your car or going on a picnic... rain is certain to follow. > No, don't faint, APDA didn't get it 100% correct, I got printed > copies not on disk like I ordered. > > Well, tomorrow I'm calling and writing a letter to let them know how > I feel. Also, I saw someone mention a new APDAlog; has anyone else > gotten one, I haven't! (Knowing the way Murphy works, the Post > Office will deliver it today [Sunday] just to make me wrong! :-) My copy of the new APDAlog arrived last week. Interesting reading, to say the least. It's pretty clear (to me, at least) that APDA has _definitely_ been hearing some of the howls of dismay re their prices, service, etc. that have been represented in this newsgroup. Specifically: - APDA acknowledges that they have been rather tardy in getting all of the Old APDA membership information transferred over into their new files, and in handling new membership applications. The sidebar that discusses this problem is rather apologetic. - APDA has cut the prices on the Macintosh and Apple II Tech Notes, thanks to a "streamlining" of the production process. [Henry... maybe your set of 3.5" floppy disks were streamlined into paper ;-]. Y'all may recall that the New APDA was charging roughly twice as much for the Tech Notes as the Old APDA did... apparently, this was a real sore point for many developers. They leave the door open to the possibility of similar price reductions on other high-volume items. - APDA now offers standard UPS delivery (ground service) in addition to its FedEx Second Day Air service. Delivery is slower, of course, but the cost is rather lower as well. Apparently, not everybody was thrilled at the idea of spending $25 to get second-day-air shipment of a software order that APDA took weeks to fulfill... - APDA has cut some of its prices on third-party software. They also state, specifically, that they're pricing third-party software at "suggested list" (or a bit below) and well above the prices offered by high-volume discounters such as ComputerWare and MacConnection. They don't want to be in competition with independents, it seems, but are offering third-party software as a convenience to developers. The marketing manager says that APDA isn't trying to increase its profits at the expense of its developers. That's the good news. The disappointing news is that the marketing manager's article confirms what I'd suspected... the New APDA has been set up with a charter that requires that it "break even" financially. This suggests to me that the New APDA's prices will always be higher than the Old APDAs, for any specified level of service, because operating and overhead costs in the Cupertino area are almost certainly a good deal higher than similar costs up in Renton, Washington. The other disappointing news is what I hear in this newsgroup... that APDA clearly has not gotten their act together yet, and are not yet able to offer the high-quality service that was Apple's stated reason for reabsorbing APDA. I can make a couple of suggestions as to how we can help assist APDA in meeting the needs of the market (that is, our own needs ;-). First off... when you're unhappy with their service (or lack thereof), write them a letter, in your best professional style. Make it clear what you're unhappy about; cite names, places, times, and so forth. To all of you who have already taken the time to write, phone, FAX, email, or otherwise inform APDA of your dissatisfaction: Thank You! The new APDAlog shows clear evidence that your words are being heard. Although I never got a personal response to the letter I FAXed to APDA a few months ago, the new APDAlog addresses almost all of the issues that I raised in my letter. I'm sure I wasn't the only person to raise these issues... keep up the good work, folks. Second point... in thinking over this whole issue during the past week or so, I've realized that many of us _do_ have a "Horn of Persuasion" that we can blow in APDA's ear. It's legal, effective, and quite simple. It's simply this: if we order stuff from APDA by mail (rather than by telephone or FAX), then APDA is legally obligated to comply with the FTC regulations that concern mail-order sales. As I recall (I don't have the regs here with me), APDA _must_ do the following: 1) They must deliver the product within 30 days of receiving the order, unless the catalog states that the product will not be available until a later date. 2) If they cannot deliver within 30 days, they must send you a postcard telling you that they can't deliver within 30 days; they must tell you how long delivery is actually expected to take, and give you the opportunity to cancel the order with no penalty. 3) If you don't cancel the order, and they are unable to deliver the order within another 90(??), then they must send you _another_ postcard telling you of the delay. They must give you another opportunity to cancel your order... in fact, I believe that they are required to cancel unless you send back a postcard (that *they* must provide and stamp!) telling them that you wish the order to remain pending. Now... I agree that most of us don't want our orders cancelled because APDA can't deliver in a timely fashion... we want our materials delivered! However, we can probably put pressure on APDA by gently reminding them that prolonged shipping delays, without proper notification and an offer-to-cancel, are a violation of FTC regulations and could subject them to substantial legal penalties! So... if you ordered something from them by mail, and they haven't delivered within 30 days or dropped you a note to confirm the delay, then you may have a significant leverage to apply some pressure. Check the mail-order pages of any good audio, video, or photo magazine... most of these magazines describe a purchaser's legal rights in detail. Then, drop APDA a note and remind them! -- Dave Platt FIDONET: Dave Platt on 1:204/444 VOICE: (415) 493-8805 UUCP: ...!{ames,sun,uunet}!coherent!dplatt DOMAIN: dplatt@coherent.com INTERNET: coherent!dplatt@ames.arpa, ...@uunet.uu.net USNAIL: Coherent Thought Inc. 3350 West Bayshore #205 Palo Alto CA 94303
ra_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu (05/02/89)
>My copy of the new APDAlog arrived last week. Interesting reading, to >say the least. It's pretty clear (to me, at least) that APDA has >_definitely_ been hearing some of the howls of dismay re their prices, >service, etc. that have been represented in this newsgroup. Specifically: [...] Yeah, I was pretty impressed that APDA seemed to be taking note of our complaints. I really liked the whole attitude of the new APDAlog a lot more. It seemed to me a lot less "full of itself" and a lot more service-oriented. I think that they heard what their market said, and have responded well. I think that "break-even" stuff sounds kinda dumb though. Sure, it sounds great in some MBA class (and I know about that stuff :->), but it seems a bit short sighted: even if you lose some bucks on APDA, the more you help developers, the more and better software they will write, and the more Macs you'll sell. Long term, it might make more sense to lose money on APDA, if in fact that will gain the company money in the long run. Anyway, I like the "New New APDA" a lot better. Not quite where they should be yet, but quite improved. Robert ------ ra_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu ------ generic disclaimer: all my opinions are mine
chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (05/02/89)
>I think that "break-even" stuff sounds kinda dumb though.
Let me ask a stupid question here -- if APDA doesn't break even, where will
the money come from? It has to come from somewhere....
The way I see it, you have two choices: the people who use the service
pay for it, or the people who don't use the service subsidize those who
do. Now, if you're using APDA, I can see where you'd like someone else
to pay for it -- but how do you think all those folks who aren't using
APDA would feel about it? Sure -- Apple *could* run APDA at a loss and fund
it by padding the price of a Mac or an Apple II to cover the difference. But
is that really fair to all those machine buyers that aren't using APDA and
don't care (or know) about it?
Chuq Von Rospach =|= Editor,OtherRealms =|= Member SFWA/ASFA
chuq@apple.com =|= CI$: 73317,635 =|= AppleLink: CHUQ
[This is myself speaking. No company can control my thoughts.]
Bookends. What a wonderful thought.ra_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu (05/02/89)
In article <29938@apple.Apple.COM>, chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes... >>I think that "break-even" stuff sounds kinda dumb though. > >Let me ask a stupid question here -- if APDA doesn't break even, where will >the money come from? It has to come from somewhere.... > >The way I see it, you have two choices: the people who use the service >pay for it, or the people who don't use the service subsidize those who >do. Now, if you're using APDA, I can see where you'd like someone else >to pay for it -- but how do you think all those folks who aren't using >APDA would feel about it? Sure -- Apple *could* run APDA at a loss and fund >it by padding the price of a Mac or an Apple II to cover the difference. But >is that really fair to all those machine buyers that aren't using APDA and >don't care (or know) about it? In one way I did misstate what I meant. I didn't mean to say that operating APDA as a self-funding unit it _necessarily_ a bad idea, but that the "profit center" scheme _might_ be misapplied here. I'm not interested in Apple funding APDA from other revenue sources so that _my_ costs as a user of APDA are lower (though lower costs would indeed be appealing). Rather, I think it's in _Apple's_ best interest to encourage development on the Mac, and making APDA materials more accessible might be one way to do that. All purchasers of Macs and Apple II's fund all of Apple's activities. If funding APDA with funds from other sources (such as sales profits) were _in the long run_ to encourage more and better Apple development and thus increase Mac sales, then it would be in Apple's interest to do so. (Would that be the case? I dunno, but it should be considered). Hey, I know that Apple has DONATED mucho equipment to the GSB here, and somebody else who bought Apple equipment payed for that in the long run. Why did Apple give away free stuff (and I mean _a lot_ of free stuff)? I reckon they looked on it as an investment. I doubt that R&D is a break-even operation. All I'm saying is that APDA might be looked on in the same way: as an investment. I'm not saying that this must be the case, but I know that the notion of "profit centers" is really hot in business schools these days, and in some cases it can be misapplied. I don't think APDA's prices make _that_ much of a difference, but on the margin, they might. Robert ------ ra_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu ------ generic disclaimer: all my opinions are mine
wilkins@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Mark Wilkins) (05/02/89)
Quoting Sue Espinoza, Director of Developer Channels at Apple Computer,
from May 1st's Apple Viewpoints, the weekly Developer Services newsletter.
"...Bringing APDA into Apple meant taking a big bite, bigger than we
imagined. Consequently, it's taking longer to chew and swallow than we ever
expected.
"You know the garage you've been meaning to reorganize? The small rust
spot on your car you've intended to fix before it becomes a gaping hole?
The code you've been meaning to clean up before the beta release? We've
been going through our own version of that...
"You said 'Get our orders faster.' That's a fair enough request, and
it's the one that has presented our biggest challenge to date. I must say,
we responded by solving the wrong problem and unintentionally created what
some of you have called 'the great freight ripoff.' ...
"I'll close by telling you that at this time last month I looked at
what remained 'to do APDA right,' and decided I was going to change my name,
sell my belongings, and flee someplace where there were no Apple computers.
But things are looking up; so I cancelled the garage sale, put the suitcases
back in the attic, and kept on keeping on.
"Seriously, I do want to leave you with the optimistic feeling about
APDA that I have. We hear you, and we're making progress toward our goal of
serving you better. Thanks for your continuing support and patience."
Comments?
-- Mark Wilkins