atrevorr@spam.ua.oz (Andrew Trevorrow) (05/19/89)
I've just finished OzTeX 1.0, a public domain version of TeX for the Mac. The OzTeX distribution includes the entire source code (about 35,000 lines). I used TML Modula-2 which runs as a tool under MPW. A few months ago I got a letter from TML Systems saying they've stopped supporting Modula-2, so I got in touch with the compiler's author, Bob Campbell, who assured me he planned to continue developing the compiler and was negotiating with a new distributor. Well, many weeks later, I'm starting to feel a little worried. A contact in the USA has heard that Bob is now working for Apple. Does anybody out there know anything about the future of Bob Campbell's Modula-2 compiler? Are you listening Bob? Can anybody recommend another Modula-2 compiler that runs under MPW? Thanks, Andrew Trevorrow (ACSnet: atrevorrow@g.ua.oz)
lyman@eos.UUCP (Lyman Taylor) (05/20/89)
In article <128@spam.ua.oz> atrevorr@spam.ua.oz (Andrew Trevorrow) writes: > >Can anybody recommend another Modula-2 compiler that runs under MPW? > Additionally, does anyone have any comments on TML vs. SempSoft vs. MetCom modula 2 compilers. Thanks in advance Lyman S. Taylor lyman@eos.arc.nasa.gov NASA Ames Research Center or more verbose ...{uunet,hplabs,decwrl}!ames!eos!lyman
BOBC@AppleLink.Apple.Com (Bob Campbell) (05/23/89)
It is not clear at this time what if any future TML Modula-2 was. It is clear that it is not "TML" Modula-2. This project has gotten out of hand in the last 12 months. The reason is that I tend to do programming and not marketing. The project started originally from my desires 1st to work on a compiler, and 2nd to experment with Modula-2. It was marketed via TML Systems because I felt that it was a good system and provided a needed alterative to C or Pascal, and I had people who at that time where handling the marketing side of things. The agreement with TML Systems failed for a number of reasons. The essence of which was that the product as Marketed by them was not viable as it was not selling in the volumes required to justify it's low price. About the other Modula-2 compilers available for the Macintosh (I am biased of course), and perhaps someone like Dennis Cohen could better speak to the issues. There are three compilers that I know about. Semper Software: This is a good MPW based compiler, for the most part SemperSoft(TM) has been the compiler that I try to be better them. He does have several features with I have not released like 68881 support and direct support for pascal strings. I don't use this system mostly because of the way that his macintosh interfaces are organized (three modules called InsideMac, VolIV, and VolumeV or something like that). SemperSoft does have the nice feature of having a Import list generator. Semper Software is working on making their compiler support SADE, for more details call or write (it might be wise to check this address look in MacTutor): Semper Software (312) 790-1253 P.O. Box 225 Glen Ellyn, IL 60138 Metcom Modula-2: This is a standalone compiler, it supports conditional compilation. These people have done a reasonable good job of making the MacMETH compiler a really product. It seems that this would be a good educational compiler. I only have a few complants about the way it's interfaces are orginized. (All of the record types are defined in three modules I forget the names but they go something like Structures, MoreStructures, and EvenMoreStructures, with no relation to what managers the structures are used in). This system support a source level debugger (it is very slow at stepping, but has a nice graphic interface for browsing variables). I had the address for this people but it is not close at hand. P1 Modula-2: I don't know what the status of this compiler is currently, I know that they were looking for an America Dist. They are based in Germany (I think). They have a reasonable good compiler MPW based compiler with the most notable feature being support for MacApp(tm). They did have some debugger support (variable browsing etc). I have heard that they support MacApp 2.0 but I have no direct contact with them. Lastly I will speak to my product: I have been working on it, and it does support such things like SADE (if I get the one currenly outstanding bug fixed) and conditional compilation. (Those are the only two big things that come to mind, there are a bunch of smaller changes that need to be made). What is currently lacking for my product is a pricing scheme and a distrubution method. To people that have used my product in the past, I am sorry for the delays and I would like to have them resolved in the near future, (once my new job settles down). Bob Campbell 555 E. El Camino Real #703 Sunnyvale CA, 94087 USA Applelink: BOBC CONNECT (aka MacNet): BOBC BOBC@AppleLink.Apple.Com The comments in this message do not reflect the opinions of Apple Computer Inc. and only reflect what I know about these products. I do not endorse any of these products and they each have features that make them useful.
drc@claris.com (Dennis Cohen) (05/23/89)
In article <1994@internal.Apple.COM> BOBC@AppleLink.Apple.Com (Bob Campbell) writes: > > [ various deleted comments concerning history of product ] > >About the other Modula-2 compilers available for the Macintosh (I am >biased of course), and perhaps someone like Dennis Cohen could better >speak to the issues. There are three compilers that I know about. > Well, since you asked :-} I tend to use both Bob's compiler and the Semper compiler. It is much easier to move code from Bob's compiler to Semper's than the other way around because of the import list generator and so forth. I have a slight preference for the SemperSoft interface organization approach since it doesn't require that as many files need to be opened and closed during the compilation process, thus speeding things up. Ideally, one or both of the compilers would have something like $LOAD to make this part even faster. The support for Pascal strings in the Semper compiler is very handy when working on Macintosh software--just ask the C compiler people. I'm sure from his comment that Bob intends to offer this as well. Both products are excellent, and each has minor merits when compared with the other -- I find it difficult to say that either is noticeably superior to the other. MetCom Modula-2 is from Metropolis Computing in Mooers, NY (really Montreal, PQ). It is a good educational product as it runs, with the source level debugging, comfortably on a 1MB, two-floppy Plus or SE. In its current release, it is not something I would use for the development of a commercial product for the following reasons: 1) The code generation is not as good as that of either Bob's or Semper's 2) The Linker is incredibly stupid -- nothing gets left out 3) You can only create applications -- DAs, INITs, XCMDs, etc need not apply. On the other hand, for small jobs that aren't going out of house or for "vanilla" Modula-2 programming, it is a very useful product to have. In short, I think that it has a different target market than either SemperSoft or Bob's compiler in its current implementation. I haven't seen the P1 compiler, so I can't comment on it. However, from Bob's comment about MacApp support I would really like to find out how to acquire a copy. -- Dennis Cohen Claris Corp. ------------ Disclaimer: Any opinions expressed above are _MINE_!