ranson@cnetlu.UUCP (Ranson) (04/26/89)
When a hard disk is initialized with Apple HD SC Setup using the default
partitionning, this program does not seem to use the whole disk! If you
look at the detailed description of the partitions, you will find that an
extra ("Apple_free") partition is created, that uses about 5% of the disk.
Why is it so? One can easily use custom partitionning to get this space
back, but are there good reasons not to do it? The lost space is 665K on
a 20Mb disk, and probably more on larger disks. I guess most users would find
a use for that.
Daniel Ranson
...!mcvax!inria!cnetlu!ranson (ranson@cnetlu.fr)dean@venus.Berkeley.EDU (R. Drew Dean) (04/28/89)
In article <892@cnetlu.UUCP> ranson@cnetlu.UUCP (Ranson) writes:
.
.When a hard disk is initialized with Apple HD SC Setup using the default
.partitionning, this program does not seem to use the whole disk! If you
.look at the detailed description of the partitions, you will find that an
.extra ("Apple_free") partition is created, that uses about 5% of the disk.
.
.Why is it so? One can easily use custom partitionning to get this space
.back, but are there good reasons not to do it? The lost space is 665K on
.a 20Mb disk, and probably more on larger disks. I guess most users would find
.a use for that.
.
. Daniel Ranson
. ...!mcvax!inria!cnetlu!ranson (ranson@cnetlu.fr)
In my case, my HD20Sc (internal on my SE) had a 917K free partition ! Apple
was robbing me of almost a megabyte. I found though, that I had to remove
my Mac partition and make a new one to expand it....I then reformatted the
drive, and lo! Apple's formatter had reinstalled the 917K free partition !
So, to get more space on your drive, use the custom partition, and do _not_
follow by reformatting....Also, the second time I left a 53K free partition,
as that was the smallest I could get, figuring that maybe Apple's software
requires a free partition for some strange reason, so I only gained 800+Kb,
but that's still > 1 floppy (not high-density)
Drew Dean
Internet: dean@xcssun.berkeley.edu
UUCP: ...!ucbvax!xcssun!dean
FROM Disclaimers IMPORT StandardDisclaimer;dplatt@coherent.com (Dave Platt) (04/28/89)
In article <12994@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> dean@venus.Berkeley.EDU writes: > In article <892@cnetlu.UUCP> ranson@cnetlu.UUCP (Ranson) writes: > . > .When a hard disk is initialized with Apple HD SC Setup using the default > .partitionning, this program does not seem to use the whole disk! If you > .look at the detailed description of the partitions, you will find that an > .extra ("Apple_free") partition is created, that uses about 5% of the disk. > . > .Why is it so? One can easily use custom partitionning to get this space > .back, but are there good reasons not to do it? The lost space is 665K on > .a 20Mb disk, and probably more on larger disks.... > > In my case, my HD20Sc (internal on my SE) had a 917K free partition ! Apple > was robbing me of almost a megabyte. Herein lies the clue! Apple buys disk-drive modules from multiple vendors; the disks vary in size somewhat. Apple's default Mac partition is set to a size that can fit on all of the "20 meg" drives that Apple purchases. The "free" partition fills up the excess space. There is a real, sane reason behind this apparent madness... Apple is not doing it to deliberately rook you out of space. If your disk drive goes kerBLOOie one of these days, and you take your Mac back to an Apple dealer for service, the dealer will drop in another Apple "20 meg" drive. However, there's no guarantee that this replacement drive will be made by the same vendor; its raw capacity may be more than your original disk's, less, or just the same. If you have used a backup utility that performs an "image mode" backup/dump of your Mac file-system, you *MUST* restore it into a partition of at least equal size. If you've dumped 21 megs of stuff to a DC-2000 streaming tape, and then try to restore it into a partition that's only 20.9 megs in size... well, sorry, Charlie. You may be unable to restore the partition (if your backup software sanity-checks the partition sizes), or you may lose the last part of your last file. This could be annoying, if you're transporting an image-mode backup of your public-domain software library to a friend's spare Mac disk; it could be disastrous, if you're restoring your only backup copy of vital corporate data. You _might_ be lucky, and be able to perform a file-by-file restore of a dump-tape that was written in image-dump mode. Then again, you might not. So... Apple's software is set up to guarantee compatibility between all Apple-labelled disks of a specific nominal size. If you happen to be fortunate enough to have one of the models that has a somewhat higher total capacity, then you can repartition your drive and make use of the extra space. You may, however, be unable to move all of such a partition's contents into the corresponding partition on another Apple-labelled disk of the same nominal size. The choice is yours. -- Dave Platt FIDONET: Dave Platt on 1:204/444 VOICE: (415) 493-8805 UUCP: ...!{ames,sun,uunet}!coherent!dplatt DOMAIN: dplatt@coherent.com INTERNET: coherent!dplatt@ames.arpa, ...@uunet.uu.net USNAIL: Coherent Thought Inc. 3350 West Bayshore #205 Palo Alto CA 94303
alan@Apple.COM (Alan Mimms) (04/29/89)
In article <24232@coherent.com> dplatt@coherent.com (Dave Platt) writes: >In article <12994@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> dean@venus.Berkeley.EDU writes: >> In article <892@cnetlu.UUCP> ranson@cnetlu.UUCP (Ranson) writes: >> . >> .When a hard disk is initialized with Apple HD SC Setup using the default >> .partitionning, this program does not seem to use the whole disk! If you >> .look at the detailed description of the partitions, you will find that an >> .extra ("Apple_free") partition is created, that uses about 5% of the disk. >> . >> In my case, my HD20Sc (internal on my SE) had a 917K free partition ! Apple >> was robbing me of almost a megabyte. Apple is NOT FULL OF BAD GUYS WHO WANT TO ROB YOU! We're just a company in business to change the world and make some money while we're at it. >If you have used a backup utility that performs an "image mode" >backup/dump of your Mac file-system, you *MUST* restore it into a >partition of at least equal size. If you've dumped 21 megs of stuff to ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >a DC-2000 streaming tape, and then try to restore it into a partition >that's only 20.9 megs in size... well, sorry, Charlie. Actually -- you MUST restore to a partition which EXACTLY the same size. The file system really needs this to be true. -- Alan Mimms My opinions are generally Communications Product Development Group pretty worthless, but Apple Computer they *are* my own... "The company has new jobs and Jobs has a new company" -- Harry Anderson
alexis@ccnysci.UUCP (Alexis Rosen) (05/03/89)
The reason for the Apple_Free partition is to accomodate the differences in
formatted size between different HD20s. The argument goes, if your drive has
no defects, and then it dies, if it's very very full you won't be able to
restore the backups onto another drive which does have some defects.
I don't agree, but I'm not making Apple's decisions...
Do you all realize that on the original Apple 40MB disks, you were actually
getting 50MB disks formatted down to 40MB? Don't ask me why. They even burned
a special ROM so you couldn't get back the ten megs. Stupid...
---
Alexis Rosen
alexis@ccnysci.{uucp,bitnet}
alexis@rascal.ics.utexas.edu (last resort)kaufman@polya.Stanford.EDU (Marc T. Kaufman) (05/08/89)
In article <1580@internal.Apple.COM> alan@Apple.COM (Alan Mimms) writes: >In article <24232@coherent.com> dplatt@coherent.com (Dave Platt) writes: ->If you have used a backup utility that performs an "image mode" ->backup/dump of your Mac file-system, you *MUST* restore it into a ->partition of at least equal size. If you've dumped 21 megs of stuff to ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ->a DC-2000 streaming tape, and then try to restore it into a partition ->that's only 20.9 megs in size... well, sorry, Charlie. >Actually -- you MUST restore to a partition which EXACTLY the same >size. The file system really needs this to be true. No, it doesn't. The file system doesn't know anything about partition sizes. The file system looks in its own header blocks. A Mac file system can be restored to any partition AT LEAST as big as the file system needs. Of course, all the area at the end of the partition will be unused, and unusable, since a Mac file system cannot change sizes once formed. It is possible that Apple's Tape Backup/Restore program enforces the size requirement -- I haven't checked -- but I have restored file systems from image copies into larger partitions with no problem. Marc Kaufman (kaufman@polya.stanford.edu)
phil@Apple.COM (Phil Ronzone) (05/17/89)
In article <1847@ccnysci.UUCP> alexis@ccnysci.UUCP (Alexis Rosen) writes: > >The reason for the Apple_Free partition is to accomodate the differences in >formatted size between different HD20s. The argument goes, if your drive has >no defects, and then it dies, if it's very very full you won't be able to >restore the backups onto another drive which does have some defects. > >I don't agree, but I'm not making Apple's decisions... No, that it not what that was designed for (I'm one of the designers). It was to have unallocated partitions. >Do you all realize that on the original Apple 40MB disks, you were actually >getting 50MB disks formatted down to 40MB? Don't ask me why. They even burned >a special ROM so you couldn't get back the ten megs. Stupid... Just seems that way. We actually like to have more than one supplier for things like disk drives. The supplier in question, who was qualified by Apple (NOT a simple thing to do) had only a 50 MB drive. If it wasn't cut down, then Apple would be selling a mixture of 40 MB drives -- one 40MB, one 50MB. It would take you guys on the net, say, 50 milliseconds to discover this. Then every dealer would find his 50MB drives sold, and 40MB drives unsold. The only options would be to sell Apple 40MB and 50MB drives -- and THAT would be stupid. No?? +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Philip K. Ronzone, Apple Computer, 10440 Bubb Rd, MS 58A, Cupertino, CA 95014| |{amdahl,decwrl,sun,voder,nsc,mtxinu,dual,unisoft,...}!apple!phil | +-----------------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ | All "IMHOs" disclaimed and copyrighted. | Self defense is a human right ... | +-----------------------------------------+-----------------------------------+
kk@mcnc.org (Krzysztof Kozminski) (05/17/89)
In article <30867@apple.Apple.COM> phil@Apple.COM (Phil Ronzone) writes: >In article <1847@ccnysci.UUCP> alexis@ccnysci.UUCP (Alexis Rosen) writes: >>[apple 40MB disks were actually 50MB] > >[some 40 were 40, others were 50 cut down to 40 to avoid confusion] > >It would take you guys on the net, say, 50 milliseconds to discover this. Then >every dealer would find his 50MB drives sold, and 40MB drives unsold. The only >options would be to sell Apple 40MB and 50MB drives -- and THAT would be >stupid. No?? Say, isn't that stupid to sell both 20 and 40 MB drives? I guess all 40 MB are sold out and there is a big surplus of 20 MB, no? Oh, they sell at different prices !? Say, now THAT is smart - to sell different capacity drives at different prices ... (exit sarcasm mode) Before I get the response that there is a 50% difference between 40 and 20, but only 20% between 50 and 40, let me point out that there is at least one company that makes 100 MB and 110 MB drives priced (a wonder of wonders) $999 and $1099 respectively. KK
alexis@ccnysci.UUCP (Alexis Rosen) (05/24/89)
In article <30867@apple.Apple.COM> phil@Apple.COM (Phil Ronzone) writes: >In article <1847@ccnysci.UUCP> alexis@ccnysci.UUCP (Alexis Rosen) writes: >>The reason for the Apple_Free partition is to accomodate the differences in >>formatted size between different HD20s. The argument goes, if your drive has >>no defects, and then it dies, if it's very very full you won't be able to >>restore the backups onto another drive which does have some defects. > >No, that it not what that was designed for (I'm one of the designers). It >was to have unallocated partitions. Someone else from Apple has already said that this was basically correct (it had to do with different manufacturers' drive sizes, not defects, though). But I suppose one thing can fulfill two needs. The question now is, why is there a need to have unallocated partitions? Thanks... --- Alexis Rosen alexis@ccnysci.{uucp,bitnet} alexis@rascal.ics.utexas.edu (last resort)
phil@Apple.COM (Phil Ronzone) (05/25/89)
In article <2084@ccnysci.UUCP> alexis@ccnysci.UUCP (Alexis Rosen) writes: >Someone else from Apple has already said that this was basically correct >(it had to do with different manufacturers' drive sizes, not defects, though). >But I suppose one thing can fulfill two needs. The question now is, why is >there a need to have unallocated partitions? I'm one of the designers of the partitioning scheme. Unallocated partitions are just that. In disk management, we were allowing for multiple OS's to use the disk. You could start out with 40MB for the Mac OS, later take another 80MB for A/UX, and later more for an MS/DOS card's disk space. Of course, you could also use it to handle "slop" of slightly different drive capacities. Unallocated partitions were specifically design with the thought of multiple operatings systems and/or multiple logocal volumes on a disk drive. Never even thought of handle drive capacity "slop" at the time. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |Philip K. Ronzone, Apple Computer, 10440 Bubb Rd, MS 58A, Cupertino, CA 95014| |{amdahl,decwrl,sun,voder,nsc,mtxinu,dual,unisoft,...}!apple!phil | +-----------------------------------------+-----------------------------------+ | All "IMHOs" disclaimed and copyrighted. | Self defense is a human right ... | +-----------------------------------------+-----------------------------------+