milo@ndmath.UUCP (Greg Corson) (05/17/89)
I recently got a newsletter from Apple that talked about a couple of
developer-oriented CD's that will soon be available from Apple. The
descriptions were pretty brief but one of the CD's was said to be full
of "development tools" and "sample code" that would be updated every few
months.
This sounds like a smart move to me...particularly if MPW and all the INSIDE
MAC chapters and technotes are on the CD. Does anybody out there know
what is ACTUALLY on these CD's and how much they will cost?
Personally, I think it would save Apple a ton of money to just send out all
the technotes, Inside Mac chapters, samples...etc on a CD every other month.
They would save a ton of money on postage and printing, I'l wager the average
pack of Technotes costs MUCH more to produce on paper than the $3 it would
cost to make a CD.
Sure...I would have to by a CD-reader...but heck, by the time I buy all the
volumes of Inside Macintosh, the technotes and other materials, I've spent
close to the price of a CD-reader anyway! Particularly when you count all
the wasted time hunting through the volumes of IM and the technotes.
Please Apple...get with it! You've been telling us for years how hypertext,
CD's, multimedia...etc are going to make our lives easier...how about a
sample? The Mac remains one of the easiest computers to USE, but it is one
of the HARDEST to program...and not having consolidated programmers
documentation is one of the biggest reasons for this.
Greg Corson
19141 Summers Drive
South Bend, IN 46637
(219) 277-5306
{pur-ee,rutgers,uunet}!iuvax!ndmath!milo
blob@apple.com (Brian Bechtel) (05/18/89)
In article <1384@ndmath.UUCP> milo@ndmath.UUCP (Greg Corson) writes: > I recently got a newsletter from Apple that talked about a couple of > developer-oriented CD's that will soon be available from Apple. The > descriptions were pretty brief but one of the CD's was said to be full > of "development tools" and "sample code" that would be updated every few > months. You're talking about Developer Helper(tm) Volume 1: Phil and Dave's Excellent CD. I posted a brief description before; it's got 170 Mbytes of Mac files, 10 Mbtypes of Apple II files, and 28 minutes of audio. It includes all our system software back to the 128K mac, almost all our foreign language software, all our peripherals software, a nice scattering of utilities such as ResEdit, all the DTS samples sources, and so on. The audio isn't so hot; it was mastered from a cassette tape. I think someone's still looking for the original master tapes... > This sounds like a smart move to me...particularly if MPW and all the > INSIDE MAC chapters and technotes are on the CD. Neither MPW nor Inside Macintosh are on the CD. > Does anybody out there know > what is ACTUALLY on these CD's and how much they will cost? This CD will be updated roughly quarterly and will be sent out to everyone who receives our developer mailings. I understand that they will make it available via APDA as well. (I don't work for Developer Technical Support, so I can't say definitely.) As soon as I find a price for non-certified developers, I'll post it. > Personally, I think it would save Apple a ton of money to just send out > all the technotes, Inside Mac chapters, samples...etc on a CD every other > month. They would save a ton of money on postage and printing, I'l wager > the average pack of Technotes costs MUCH more to produce on paper than the > $3 it would cost to make a CD. Actually, the costs of pressing a CD are $1500 premastering charge plus $2.00 per CD. This price seems to be pretty widely available; I know of at least six companies with this price structure (E-mail me if you want names). At 9000 discs per pressing (we have 9000 certified developers) that's $2.17 per CD. Yes, it costs considerably less to press the CD than any other distribution media, especially when you consider that you can put 660 Mbytes on a CD. > Sure...I would have to by a CD-reader...but heck, by the time I buy all > the volumes of Inside Macintosh, the technotes and other materials, I've > spent close to the price of a CD-reader anyway! Particularly when you > count all the wasted time hunting through the volumes of IM and the > technotes. Certified developers will receive a coupon in the next mailing with a one-time offer of a VERY low price for the AppleCD SC drive. > Please Apple...get with it! You've been telling us for years how > hypertext, CD's, multimedia...etc are going to make our lives easier... > how about a sample? Of course, we already provide a sample CD with our drive. We're using CD-ROM inside Apple for many projects, and trying to get you folks out in the "real" world to consider it as well. We've also handed out example CDs at several forums, such as the third Microsoft CD-ROM conference and our recent World Wide Developer Conference. --Brian Bechtel blob@apple.com "My opinion, not Apple's" "I'll listen to reason when it comes out on compact disc."
alibaba@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Alexander M. Rosenberg) (05/18/89)
In article <1927@internal.Apple.COM> blob@apple.com (Brian Bechtel) writes: >In article <1384@ndmath.UUCP> milo@ndmath.UUCP (Greg Corson) writes: >> I recently got a newsletter from Apple that talked about a couple of >> developer-oriented CD's that will soon be available from Apple. The >> descriptions were pretty brief but one of the CD's was said to be full >> of "development tools" and "sample code" that would be updated every few >> months. > >You're talking about Developer Helper(tm) Volume 1: Phil and Dave's >Excellent CD. I posted a brief description before; it's got 170 Mbytes of >Mac files, 10 Mbtypes of Apple II files, and 28 minutes of audio. It >includes all our system software back to the 128K mac, almost all our >foreign language software, all our peripherals software, a nice scattering >of utilities such as ResEdit, all the DTS samples sources, and so on. > ... >Neither MPW nor Inside Macintosh are on the CD. This bothers me. It would be really nice to have IM on the CD in a database format. Then a program similar to Steve Capps's On-Line Companion could bring up the wording of things to clarify that passing POINTER(-1) does one thing and nil does another. Unless it doesn't fit on the disk, I see no reason not to (unless Addison-Wesley has an objection). >> Does anybody out there know >> what is ACTUALLY on these CD's and how much they will cost? ... >Actually, the costs of pressing a CD are $1500 premastering charge plus >$2.00 per CD. This price seems to be pretty widely available; I know of >at least six companies with this price structure (E-mail me if you want >names). At 9000 discs per pressing (we have 9000 certified developers) >that's $2.17 per CD. Yes, it costs considerably less to press the CD than >any other distribution media, especially when you consider that you can >put 660 Mbytes on a CD. It was this discovery that led to The Boston Computer Society to press an updated CD for (almost) every MacWorld expo. In addition, because there is so much stuff on a CD (typically), people are willing to spend at least $50 for one. (BCS charges $99 to spread out the mastering charge.) ... >Certified developers will receive a coupon in the next mailing with a >one-time offer of a VERY low price for the AppleCD SC drive. I haven't read this coupon personally, but is there a limitation on the number of drives each developer can buy, and if so, how many? Seeing as how it has all system releases on it, does it also have all the fonts that Apple has ever published (including the large sizes for the LQ, AppleFax, and IIsc?) If so, then I could dump less gunk in my System Folder and use Suitcase II to load all the Fonts and DAs off the CD (Saving space on the more expensive writable media.) Also, can somebody please explain why it's Phil and Dave's? Who are Phil and Dave? (oops, sorry, trashed the .signature... It was Brian "blob" Bechtel.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Alexander M. Rosenberg - INTERNET: alibaba@ucscb.ucsc.edu - Yoyodyne - - Crown College, UCSC - UUCP:...!ucbvax!ucscc!ucscb!alibaba- Propulsion - - Santa Cruz, CA 95064 - BITNET:alibaba%ucscb@ucscc.BITNET - Systems - - (408) 426-8869 - Disclaimer: Nobody is my employer - :-) - - - so nobody cares what I say. - -
blob@apple.com (Brian Bechtel) (05/19/89)
In article <7543@saturn.ucsc.edu> alibaba@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (Alexander M. Rosenberg) writes: > Seeing as how it has all system releases on it, does it also have all > the fonts that Apple has ever published (including the large sizes > for the LQ, AppleFax, and IIsc?) If so, then I could dump less gunk > in my System Folder and use Suitcase II to load all the Fonts and > DAs off the CD (Saving space on the more expensive writable media.) Good idea. I'll pass it along. > Also, can somebody please explain why it's Phil and Dave's? Who are > Phil and Dave? Phil Williams, manager of Developer Technical Support, and Dave Szetela, manager of Developer Services. Two excellent dudes. --Brian Bechtel blob@apple.com "My opinion, not Apple's"
tim@hoptoad.uucp (Tim Maroney) (05/21/89)
In accordance with the request in the liner notes on the CD, I'd like
to say that in my opinion, the packaging is very appropriate, far more
appropriate for a developer audience than would be the alternative suit
and tie approach. It's fun and properly irreverent. Phil and Dave
should not be fired, disemboweled, defenestrated, decapaitated, or
otherwise rendered less effective. Instead, they should be given,
like, tickets to the Bahamas for vacations and other excellent stuff
(but bring 'em back soon!)
I hope that this will be passed on through proper channels....
--
Tim Maroney, Consultant, Eclectic Software, sun!hoptoad!tim
"Everything that gives us pleasure gives us pain to measure it by."
-- The Residents, GOD IN THREE PERSONSkeith@Apple.COM (Keith Rollin) (05/21/89)
In article <7384@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes: >In accordance with the request in the liner notes on the CD, I'd like >to say that in my opinion, the packaging is very appropriate, far more >appropriate for a developer audience than would be the alternative suit >and tie approach. It's fun and properly irreverent. Phil and Dave >should not be fired, disemboweled, defenestrated, decapaitated, or >otherwise rendered less effective. Instead, they should be given, >like, tickets to the Bahamas for vacations and other excellent stuff >(but bring 'em back soon!) > >I hope that this will be passed on through proper channels.... Consider it passed on (because it has been). If anyone else out there has anything to say about the merits or shortcomings of Phil & Dave's Excellent CD, please let us know! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Keith Rollin --- Apple Computer, Inc. --- Developer Technical Support INTERNET: keith@apple.com UUCP: {decwrl, hoptoad, nsc, sun, amdahl}!apple!keith "Argue for your Apple, and sure enough, it's yours" - Keith Rollin, Contusions
cbm@well.UUCP (Chris Muir) (05/22/89)
One complaint that I have about the Phil & Dave extravaganza is that
that "computer data" song sure is LOUD. <smirk>
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Chris Muir | "There is no language in our lungs
{hplabs,pacbell,ucbvax,apple} | to tell the world just how we feel"
!well!cbm | - A. Partridgemjohnson@Apple.COM (Mark B. Johnson) (05/23/89)
In article <7384@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes: >In accordance with the request in the liner notes on the CD, I'd like >to say that in my opinion, the packaging is very appropriate, far more >appropriate for a developer audience than would be the alternative suit >and tie approach. It's fun and properly irreverent. Phil and Dave >should not be fired, disemboweled, defenestrated, decapaitated, or >otherwise rendered less effective. Instead, they should be given, >like, tickets to the Bahamas for vacations and other excellent stuff >(but bring 'em back soon!) > >I hope that this will be passed on through proper channels.... >-- >Tim Maroney, Consultant, Eclectic Software, sun!hoptoad!tim >"Everything that gives us pleasure gives us pain to measure it by." > -- The Residents, GOD IN THREE PERSONS It has been. Thanks for the positive feedback. Mark B. Johnson AppleLink: mjohnson Developer Technical Support domain: mjohnson@Apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. UUCP: {amdahl,decwrl,sun,unisoft}!apple!mjohnson "You gave your life to become the person you are right now. Was it worth it?" - Richard Bach, _One_
danking@nunki.usc.edu (Dan King) (05/24/89)
Phil and Dave's is great! The packaging provided a funny and (often) needed break from debugging sloppy code. My only complaint is that Tech Note 31 isn't included on the disk (or at least is not included where I have found it). Dan King (213) 745-2049
blob@apple.com (Brian Bechtel) (05/24/89)
In article <3875@merlin.usc.edu> danking@nunki.usc.edu (Dan King) writes: > Phil and Dave's is great! The packaging provided a funny and (often) > needed break from debugging sloppy code. My only complaint is that > Tech Note 31 isn't included on the disk (or at least is not included > where I have found it). Au contraire. It's in the tech note stack. You just have to find it... Moof. --Brian Bechtel blob@apple.com "My opinion, not the dogcow's"
wilkins@jarthur.Claremont.EDU (Mark Wilkins) (05/26/89)
In article <11772@well.UUCP> cbm@well.UUCP (Chris Muir) writes: >One complaint that I have about the Phil & Dave extravaganza is that >that "computer data" song sure is LOUD. <smirk> Hey! Don't laugh! I almost blew my speakers with that! -- M. Wilkins
holland@m2.csc.ti.com (Fred Hollander) (06/03/89)
In article <2049@internal.Apple.COM> blob@apple.com (Brian Bechtel) writes: >In article <3875@merlin.usc.edu> danking@nunki.usc.edu (Dan King) writes: >> Phil and Dave's is great! The packaging provided a funny and (often) >> needed break from debugging sloppy code. My only complaint is that >> Tech Note 31 isn't included on the disk (or at least is not included >> where I have found it). > >Au contraire. It's in the tech note stack. You just have to find it... > >Moof. He must not be grazing in the right place :) Fred Hollander Computer Science Center Texas Instruments, Inc. hollander@ti.com The above statements are my own and not representative of Texas Instruments.