DFJOHN01@ULKYVX.BITNET (GMAIL_FLAG_PERSONAL_NAME) (05/26/89)
I have been looking for a good commercial BBS to subscribe to but would like some feedback from Mac programmers who have found valuable tools, utilities, advice and programming examples from their favorite board before dipping into my wallet. I am fairly familiar with CompuServe, but know very little about GEnie or MacNet. Information about cost/hour and rate changes during a 24-hour period would be much appreciated. Also, is AppleLink worth subscribing to? Much thanks to all who respond. David F. Johnson BITNET : DFJOHN01@ULKYVX INTERNET : dfjohn01%ulkyvx.bitnet@cunyvm.edu UUCP : ...psuvax!ulkyvx.bitnet!dfjohn01
chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) (05/26/89)
>I have been looking for a good commercial BBS to subscribe to but would >like some feedback from Mac programmers who have found valuable tools, >utilities, advice and programming examples from their favorite board before >dipping into my wallet. >I am fairly familiar with CompuServe, but know very little about GEnie or >MacNet. Information about cost/hour and rate changes during a 24-hour period >would be much appreciated. Also, is AppleLink worth subscribing to? I wrote about this for Mac Horizons a while back. You might want to check for that issue in a library for details, but here's a quick summary: o CompuServe: the biggest, almost to excess. Expensive, but if it exists for the Mac, it's up there. With compuserve Navigator and some restraint, you can definitely keep to a budget. Unless budget is your primary requirement, I'd go with CI$. o GEnie: the next to biggest. It's not nearly as complete as CIS, especially vendor support. It doesn't have as much software in the libraries, although it's pretty complete. It's about half as expensive as CI$, but the interface is horrible and a pain to use. Ugly. Offends the senses. o Delphi: the smallest of the services. Not terribly complete, but very little noise, either. Many of the developers are there, and it is possible sit and chat with them without a lot of hassle or interruption. The Sysop has recently resigned over differences with Delphi, so it's all a little murky now. o Applelink: the official voice of Apple. Most of the stuff that is interesting here generally gets to CI$ or Genie sooner or later. Unless you sign up as an Apple Partner and want to get on AppleLink for support, I'd probably spend my money on CI$ first. Recommendations: If you have the budget, you can live on CI$ for $75 a month. You can live reasonably for $100, and if you want to budget $150, you can do a lot of downloading and watch most of the forums with Navigator (you can spend a *lot* more if you're a downloading freak. I'm usually between $80 and $110, so I know these numbers can be done). If $75/month gives you hives, sign up for Genie. As to the rest, it all depends on how much time and money you want to spend. Either CI$ or Genie will serve most of your needs most of your time, and anything else you do depends entirely on how many systems you want to play with. Chuq Von Rospach =|= Editor,OtherRealms =|= Member SFWA/ASFA chuq@apple.com =|= CI$: 73317,635 =|= AppleLink: CHUQ [This is myself speaking. No company can control my thoughts.] This is....The Voice....of USENET....in special English. 1300UTC on 11525.
ra_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu (05/26/89)
Well, it's not a commercial board, the interface is line-oriented, but you might want to check out "The MouseHole", MacTutor's BBS. It's free (downloading may or may not cost, I'm not sure). The number's in MacTutor. Robert ------ ra_robert@gsbacd.uchicago.edu ------ generic disclaimer: all my opinions are mine ------ MOFO knows!
ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM (Norman Goodger) (05/31/89)
In article <31670@apple.Apple.COM> chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: > >o CompuServe: the biggest, almost to excess. Expensive, but if it exists for > the Mac, it's up there. With compuserve Navigator and some restraint, you > can definitely keep to a budget. Unless budget is your primary > requirement, I'd go with CI$. > >o GEnie: the next to biggest. It's not nearly as complete as CIS, especially > vendor support. It doesn't have as much software in the libraries, > although it's pretty complete. It's about half as expensive as CI$, but > the interface is horrible and a pain to use. Ugly. Offends the senses. > I have a tendancy to disagree with some of the above observations. While I co-sysop on Genie and have a good familiarity with the system, I do not agree with the assesment that Genie has an ugly interface when compared with the significantly overpriced CI$. Trying to use CI$ without the benefit of Navigator is a effort in frustration just like using any new service where you are not familiar with the commands or the interface. Genie is just as easy to use or navigate if you take the time to learn the system. GEnie's software Libraries in my opinion are just as complete if not better than CI$, you can at least initiate a search for something in all libraries, something that cannot be done on CI$ without going to another area to see if its there somewhere. CI$ has perpetual message scroll whats posted today can be gone tomorrow unless the sysops decide that its a thread that they want to save for a while. Whereas Genie can save complete threads for quite sometime..There are advantages and disadvantages to both these methods...neither is perfect, but I feel that the Genie method is better than CI$ is as much as your question and possible answers do not disappear in a couple days time if the message traffic is high that week. As far as vendor support, CI$ probably has an edge here, only due to being around longer, currently Genie has support from Microsoft,SuperMac,Borland,Letraset, and probably many others who support products on individual basis in the Mac RT. The Bottom line however is, if you do not take the time to learn the system, anything can be ugly no matter how simple it is... -- Norm Goodger SysOp - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862 3Com Corp. Co-SysOp FreeSoft RT - GEnie. Enterprise Systems Division (I disclaim anything and everything) UUCP: {3comvax,auspex,sun}!bridge2!ngg Internet: ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM
newman@ut-emx.UUCP (Dave Newman) (06/01/89)
I started on CIS and GEnie at almost exactly the same time. After
a little while, I found that I was using CIS lots more because I
could find things there without cursing at the software. While any
system is ok once you have learned enough about it, the question is
which system is earier to learn. I vote for CIS - even without the
Navigator. With the Navigator, CIS is obscenely easy.
The main disadvantage to CIS is the cost. They just instituted a
monthly charge for all users regardless of how much you use the
system. It is not high, but it is annoying nontheless.
Also, the coverage of the two systems is about the same except
for commercial support. When I was using both systems, anything
that showed up on one would appear on the other within a few days.
Commercial support on CIS is big and getting bigger. I haven't
used GEnie is a while, so I can't judge the situation there.
>>Dave
ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) (06/01/89)
I agree with Chuq on this one. CIS has a nicer interface than GEnie. The problem with GEnie is that there is too much! With CIS, I can log in, do a "quick scan" of the forums I am interested in, while capturing the text, log out, look at my scan, note which articles I want to read, log back in, use the "read individual" command to grab the articles that looked interesting, and then log out. GEnie seems to me to be much more inflexible. It would be fine if I wanted to read all new things that have appeared since I last was on, but I don't. I want to be more selective. Someone once described this to me as the "news vs. notes" issue, and having used both news and notes, I think they were accurate. The bottom line is that I have found that GEnie gives me more information that I don't want. CIS is easier to weed out the junk on. If I'm looking for something to download, however, GEnie is the place to go first. ( Well, actually, Portal is the place to go first ). Tim Smith
brecher@well.UUCP (Steve Brecher) (06/08/89)
In article <31670@apple.Apple.COM> chuq@Apple.COM (Chuq Von Rospach) writes: > [GEnie] is about half as expensive as CI$ ... Here are the actual hourly rates: CIS GEnie 1200 baud: business day $12.80 $18.00 eve./night/weekend 12.80 6.00 2400 baud: business day 12.80 18.00 eve./night/weekend 12.80 10.00 On CIS there is an additional $1.50 per month fee per account. "Business day" denotes 8 AM to 7 PM on CIS, and 8 AM to 6 PM on GEnie on weekdays; local time at network connection point. Rates above are for the respective services' primary communication networks in the continental U.S. and are applicable in most U.S. cities. Access from some suburban and rural areas will incur a surcharge (typically $2.00/hr for eve/night/weekend access). -- brecher@well.UUCP (Steve Brecher)
ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM (Norman Goodger) (06/08/89)
In article <19029@cup.portal.com> ts@cup.portal.com (Tim W Smith) writes: >I agree with Chuq on this one. CIS has a nicer interface than GEnie. >The problem with GEnie is that there is too much! With CIS, I can >log in, do a "quick scan" of the forums I am interested in, while >capturing the text, log out, look at my scan, note which articles >I want to read, log back in, use the "read individual" command >to grab the articles that looked interesting, and then log out. >GEnie seems to me to be much more inflexible. It would be fine >if I wanted to read all new things that have appeared since I >last was on, but I don't. I want to be more selective. >Someone once described this to me as the "news vs. notes" issue, >and having used both news and notes, I think they were accurate. >The bottom line is that I have found that GEnie gives me more >information that I don't want. CIS is easier to weed out the >junk on. >If I'm looking for something to download, however, GEnie is the >place to go first. ( Well, actually, Portal is the place to >go first ). Actually if you take the time to learn the commands, Genie is probably more flexiable, since you can easily ignore the areas you are not interested in reading and collect messages by date from the areas that you do, and more ways to selectively read if you wish. If you want to learn how to make effective use of Genie, all you have to do is either ask, or check out the online help. Granted Nav makes CI$ seem easier, but you take that away and CI$ can become a real pain to use. Like anything, it takes time to get used to GEnie, but once you do, you can see that its just as flexable, if not more than CI$. not to mention cheaper since GEnie is now $10 hour/2400 baud with no surcharges. The biggest problem of all is not asking or taking the time to learn how to make effective use of the service you are on. If you give up after one or two tries and never ask any questions, you will always be frustrated and perhaps spending $$ for online time that could be spent doing something if people took the time up front to make effective use of the system. -- Norm Goodger SysOp - MacInfo BBS @415-795-8862 3Com Corp. Co-SysOp FreeSoft RT - GEnie. Enterprise Systems Division (I disclaim anything and everything) UUCP: {3comvax,auspex,sun}!bridge2!ngg Internet: ngg@bridge2.ESD.3Com.COM