ari@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Ari Halberstadt) (09/17/89)
I was on vacation, so I may be a little behind the times. After reading this debate on the standard alert, I just have to throw in my own opinion. Note: after writing this article, I realized it was quite long; so, to help you decide if you want to read the whole thing, I stuck the summary up at the beginning. I certainly hope you read the whole article! ***Summary: the standard save alert is far too important to mess with, since any mistakes a user makes at this stage will be very costly. I have yet to see a really convincing reason to change it, and until then, I shall remain faithful to Apple's guidelines. In article <1374@speedy.mcnc.org> kk@mcnc.org.UUCP (Krzysztof Kozminski) writes: >In article <8508@hoptoad.uucp> tim@hoptoad.UUCP (Tim Maroney) writes: >>In article <1370@speedy.mcnc.org> kk@mcnc.org.UUCP (Kris Kozminski) writes: >>>BTW, I find it useful to include one more button: 'save as', for those >>>occasions whent quitting is done in panic and the user doesn't really want >>>to overwrite an existing file but would like to save the results anyway. >> >>Um, a good idea, but again, what's really important in the standardization >>is that the buttons be in the proper relative positions (...) If you start >Anyway, I moved the 'Cancel' button a couple pixels down wrt the recommended >layout and have this: > > Save Save as > > Discard Cancel Ok, I strongly disagree with any attempt to modify the standard save alert from its use of three buttons. Changes of the form Save Discard Cancel which occur in some programs are somewhat ok, since I don't think they're very confusing [but I'd never do this!]. So, why am I against these modifications? 1. One of the strongest points of the Mac interface is its consistency: all applications behave just about the same way. Modifying something as basic as the save alert really offsets a lot of the advantages. 2. Users [including myself, and I'm a programmer] don't read things, we push buttons (I believe someone else said this on the net). If someone moves the button, and puts a different one in its place, then many users will hit the wrong button, at least the first few times. Also, remember that users generally quit applications when it's time to go home, and they are therefore very tired, and that is when they are least alert, their eyes have been fried, and their hands are tired; so please, don't confuse our weary minds! 3. People rely on visual cues, especially in a Macintosh environment. So, if a familiar alert is changed, then I have to stop and think "wait, what's this thing? gee, looks kinda like the other thingy..." I once used a computer which had an excellent word processor. When you'd quit, it would display a little box somewhat like the standard save alert; the selections, if I remember correctly, were "Return" to quit, "Cancel" to go back to editing, and "Execute" to save changes before quitting. At least it was something like that. The point is, they managed to change, ever so slightly, the intuitive meanings of two of the keys; despite months of use, every once in a while I would quit, read the screen, and consistently make the WRONG CHOICE!!! UGH! Then, one could hear me rant and rave over lost work... And all this, due to very slight inconsistency in a very important place. 4. As to the suggestion to add things like a "Save as" button: yes, this is a good idea, and sometimes I've wondered why it wasn't there. But the fact is it wasn't put there by Apple, and should not be put there now. If a user clicks the wrong button and looses several hours of work, just because you fiddled with the alert, that user may be very angry at the stupid programmer who "made" him/her click the wrong button. This anger and the loss of work will be far worse than any minor inconvenience caused by clicking cancel and then selecting "Save As...". In summary: see beginning. -- -- Ari Halberstadt '91, "Long live succinct signatures" E-mail: ari@eleazar.dartmouth.edu Tel: (603) 640-5687 Disclaimer: "Live Free or Die"
oster@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu (David Phillip Oster) (09/17/89)
One last two cents on this subject: Under multifinder, when you choose the
finder's shutdown command, it quits each application in turn. I like to
put the application's document icon on the Save changes box, in the upper
left, so the user will at least get a quick hint what he is being asked
about.
--- David Phillip Oster 7 line signature follows
Keith Sproul, head of microcomputer support at Union Carbide, NJ, complained
about the poorly digitized fellatio on an IBM porno program. "Mac is better
on everything, and this is no execption." -- "Computer Porn at the Office"
by Reese Erlich, _This_World_, S.F. Chronicle, p.8, Aug 13, 1989
Arpa: oster@dewey.soe.berkeley.edu
Uucp: {uwvax,decvax}!ucbvax!oster%dewey.soe.berkeley.edu