erics@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Eric Schlegel) (10/14/89)
In article <4710@internal.Apple.COM> chewy@apple.com (Paul Snively) writes: > >Your primary point, I think--that to get MPW support you have to go >through the iffy process of becoming an Apple Partner--is dead on, but I >don't see that as NOT fitting our target market for MPW (professional >developers who have a product or a business plan and can therefore rest >reasonably assured that they'll become "Partnerized.") (A lone voice crying out in the wilderness...) I understand that this is MPW's target market. Whether I agree with that doesn't really matter... I just want to point out that THERE DO EXIST some people (such as me) who are lowly college students, who run MPW 3.0 on a Mac Plus, who have no intention of ever marketing a product or becoming "Partnerized." >Let's also not forget that some of us (like Keith Rollin, Andrew Shebanow, >and myself) do our level best to answer questions on many forums--like >here, for example. For which I am very, very grateful. Thanks very much, guys! Keep up the good work! Eric Schlegel eric.schlegel@dartmouth.edu
chewy@apple.com (Paul Snively) (10/14/89)
In article <16124@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> erics@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Eric Schlegel) writes: > THERE DO EXIST some people (such as me) who > are lowly college students, who run MPW 3.0 on a Mac Plus... You have my DEEPEST sympathy! How much memory is on your Plus?? If it's one megabyte, how do you COMPILE anything??? __________________________________________________________________________ Just because I work for Apple Computer, Inc. doesn't mean that they believe what I believe or vice-versa. __________________________________________________________________________
erics@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Eric Schlegel) (10/15/89)
In article <4743@internal.Apple.COM> chewy@apple.com (Paul Snively) writes: >In article <16124@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> erics@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Eric >Schlegel) writes: >> THERE DO EXIST some people (such as me) who >> are lowly college students, who run MPW 3.0 on a Mac Plus... > >You have my DEEPEST sympathy! How much memory is on your Plus?? If it's >one megabyte, how do you COMPILE anything??? My Plus has 2.5 meg in it - I'm looking forward to upgrading it 4 sometime soon, hopefully by Christmas. Small compiles actually aren't that bad, maybe 30 seconds to a minute. Running MacApp 2.0b9 is pretty ridiculous, though. MABuild itself takes something like 30 secs - a minute to generate the build script. To wait 3 or 4 minutes for the compiler to find a simple syntax error is somewhat annoying. Nonetheless, I do put up with it - it's the only system that has the power I want. Not fun, and I wish very much that it was faster - but I live with it. Don't bother running SADE, though. It's worthless, much too slow to be useful on the Plus. Sure was nice using it on Microsoft's Mac II over the summer, though... Informal poll idea: I'd be interested in hearing from people on the net who use MPW. How many of you _are_ using in on Pluses/SEs? How many on II-class machines? Eric Schlegel eric.schlegel@dartmouth.edu
jnh@ecemwl.ncsu.edu (Joseph N. Hall) (10/16/89)
In article <16153@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> erics@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Eric Schlegel) writes: >In article <4743@internal.Apple.COM> chewy@apple.com (Paul Snively) writes: >>In article <16124@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> erics@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Eric >>Schlegel) writes: >>> THERE DO EXIST some people (such as me) who >>> are lowly college students, who run MPW 3.0 on a Mac Plus... >> >>You have my DEEPEST sympathy! How much memory is on your Plus?? If it's >>one megabyte, how do you COMPILE anything??? > >My Plus has 2.5 meg in it - I'm looking forward to upgrading it 4 sometime >soon, hopefully by Christmas. Small compiles actually aren't that bad, maybe >30 seconds to a minute. Running MacApp 2.0b9 is pretty ridiculous, though. >MABuild itself takes something like 30 secs - a minute to generate the build >script. To wait 3 or 4 minutes for the compiler to find a simple syntax error >is somewhat annoying. > Well, I consider it quite a good performance when my VAXstation II/GPX compiles at as much as 3000 lines/minute. Typically it is 1/2-2/3 that fast. The linker is not what I would call speedy, either. MPW on my wife's Plus seems about as fast (somewhat faster with #pragma load/dumps); on the IIcx it zips along quite nicely. I think THINK C is pretty much I/O bound by the time it gets to one of the faster platforms; there is not all that much difference between the speed on a Plus and a IIcx, especially when you use a really large pre-compiled header (I normally include all of the normal class headers in addition to the standard Mac headers) -- might be a factor of 2 or something, but not the percentage speedup evidenced by MPW as it goes to a faster machine. >Nonetheless, I do put up with it - it's the only system that has the power >I want. Not fun, and I wish very much that it was faster - but I live with it. > Well, my experience with 30-minute builds of <50,000 line programs on my VAXstation has imbued me with a considerable sense of patience. I would kill (well, almost) to compile on my VAXstation at the same speed I compile on a Mac Plus with THINK C. MPW? Ehh -- it's slower, but I think it's tolerable. >Informal poll idea: I'd be interested in hearing from people on the net who >use MPW. How many of you _are_ using in on Pluses/SEs? How many on II-class >machines? I use both; what I'd like to know is why the execution of shell commands is SO much slower on a Plus or SE than on a II-something. v v sssss|| joseph hall || 4116 Brewster Drive v v s s || jnh@ecemwl.ncsu.edu (Internet) || Raleigh, NC 27606 v sss || SP Software/CAD Tool Developer, Mac Hacker and Keyboardist -----------|| Disclaimer: NCSU may not share my views, but is welcome to.
johnte@microsoft.UUCP (John Terranova) (10/16/89)
In article <16153@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> erics@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Eric Schlegel) writes: >In article <4743@internal.Apple.COM> chewy@apple.com (Paul Snively) writes: >>In article <16124@dartvax.Dartmouth.EDU> erics@eleazar.dartmouth.edu (Eric >>Schlegel) writes: >>> THERE DO EXIST some people (such as me) who >>> are lowly college students, who run MPW 3.0 on a Mac Plus... >> >>You have my DEEPEST sympathy! How much memory is on your Plus?? If it's >>one megabyte, how do you COMPILE anything??? I started with TML Pascal way back in the old days when it was it's own development system. I upgraded a couple of times, then it became integrated with MPW. I upgraded again knowing full well that my poor Mac+ had only 1Meg of mem (and still does!). BTW: I upgraded to my current development system while I was still in college (i.e. poor). I have no problem compiling and linking my programs. But then the one I'm mainly working on is only ~1000 lines (but growing). Time from initiation of the build process to the "Save files..." dialog before launching my program is on the order of 2 minutes. It's not Lightspeed, but then Lightspeed isn't Lightspeed, anymore. :-) (It's Think) >My Plus has 2.5 meg in it - I'm looking forward to upgrading it 4 sometime >soon, hopefully by Christmas. Small compiles actually aren't that bad, maybe Small compiles in 1Meg aren't too bad, either. Though I would like 2.5. >Informal poll idea: I'd be interested in hearing from people on the net who >use MPW. How many of you _are_ using in on Pluses/SEs? How many on II-class >machines? I don't use MPW for much serious work, but I do have a pet project at home that I use it for. BTW I use the TML Pascal compiler not the MPW Pascal compiler, if that makes any difference to your informal poll. >Eric Schlegel >eric.schlegel@dartmouth.edu -----------------------+----------------------------+------------------------- John Terranova | What the Hell do I know? | I speak/type for me johnte@microsoft.uucp | I come from Waunakee! | and no one else. -----------------------+----------------------------+------------------------- "You look so good; you feel good, too. When they see you shake it, baby everybody's gonna pay attention to you and you and you." --Gerard, Shake It