[comp.sys.mac.programmer] Script Manager

lance@hermix.UUCP (Lance Ellinghouse) (02/23/90)

Hello,
   Does anyone have any examples of code using the Script manager?
I cannot find anything anywhere.

Please help if you can...

Thanks,
Lance Ellinghouse
Mark V Systems
Internet: hermix!lance@anes.ucla.edu
UUCP: hermix!lance

ggiergiel@vmsa.oac.uci.edu (02/28/90)

In article <33@hermix.UUCP>, lance@hermix.UUCP (Lance Ellinghouse) writes...

>Hello,
>   Does anyone have any examples of code using the Script manager?
>I cannot find anything anywhere.

Script Manager is poorly documented, incompletely implemented
set of routines that you should avoid at any cost.
Hopefully they (Apple) will clean it up one day.
J.G

han@apple.COM (Byron Han, Project Scapegoat) (03/01/90)

In article <25EAF617.21750@orion.oac.uci.edu> ggiergiel@vmsa.oac.uci.edu 
writes:
> Script Manager is poorly documented, incompletely implemented
> set of routines that you should avoid at any cost.

There is an excellent document available from APDA - Worldwide 
Development: Guide to System Software.

To give you a taste of the document, I will synopsize the table of 
contents.

1. introduction to scripts and the script management system
this includes overviews of scriptfeatures, components (char encoding, 
input, composition, sorting, date/time/calendar/money/number formats)
2. Script Systems
a bit more detail about Asian and Middle Eastern script syetems as well as 
simple script sytems
3. Overview and Concepts
discussion of architecture and overview of data structures variables and 
routines
4. techniques of using the script manager
examples are included here
5. script manager constants and data structures
6. script manager routines
There is even more stuff to be included in later drafts...
A. testing your applications for script manager compatibility
B. International Resources
C. Constructing Word break tables
D. Keyboard handling
E. PACK 6 sorting
 and more stuff

+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Disclaimer: Apple has no connection with my postings.                   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Byron Han, CommToolbox Scapegoat  "Working 100 hours a week and loving it!"
Apple Computer, Inc.              --------------------------------
20525 Mariani Ave, MS 69L         Internet: han@apple.COM
Cupertino, CA 95014               UUCP:{sun,voder,nsc,decwrl}!apple!han
--------------------------------  GENIE:BYRONHAN   CompuServe:72167,1664
ATTnet: 408-974-6450              Applelink:HAN1   HAN1@applelink.apple.COM
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

ggiergiel@vmsa.oac.uci.edu (03/02/90)

>> Script Manager is poorly documented, incompletely implemented
>> set of routines that you should avoid at any cost.
> 
>There is an excellent document available from APDA - Worldwide 
>Development: Guide to System Software.

How do you get it and for how much? It is not in my last issue of
APDAlog. Plus, I am getting sick and tired of paying inflated
APD prices for preliminary documentation that gets totally rewritten
way too often.
Why dont you guys stop charging for preliminary  blurbs.
Some decency would not hurt.

J.G.

bc@modernlvr.sgi.com (Bill Coderre) (03/03/90)

ggiergiel@vmsa.oac.uci.edu writes:
|>> Script Manager is poorly documented, incompletely implemented
|>> set of routines that you should avoid at any cost.

|>There is an excellent document available from APDA - Worldwide 
|>Development: Guide to System Software.

|How do you get it and for how much? It is not in my last issue of
|APDAlog. Plus, I am getting sick and tired of paying inflated
|APD prices for preliminary documentation that gets totally rewritten
|way too often.

The best match I found is "Software Development for International
Markets," Apple Computer. No date. It is classified as "Class 1B" -- a
beta draft. It is 300pp and costs $35. Order number A7G0016. 

I should note that the product blurb (on p C-85 of the Fall 89
APDAlog) does not mention the Script Manager outright, but says that
the manual concentrates on "tools and techniques to localize software
products." I've never seen the manual, so I cannot tell just how
"Beta" this manual is.

I am heartened by the fact that Apple has been filling in a lot of
gaps in its documentation recently. Also, recent manuals seem to be of
high technical quality. 

I had a chance to play with SpInside Mac, and it is indeed an okay
stopgap solution -- for those that can get it. Although almost no
revisions have been made to Inside Mac, there are now built-in
pointers to germane Tech Notes and DTS Q&A stacks. (I didn't figure
out how to look up a particular trap or variable, is there a method?)

My only gripes with APDA of late have been:
	that "Programmers' Guide to Multifinder" is out-of-date,
	covering version 1.0 of Multifinder (although this is only a
	guess since NO version information is provided, other than the
	copyright year), and therefore rather overpriced at $20 for 97
	pages (including a sample program listing but NO disk (but
	that sample program is now outdated, anyway, and is found in
	the DTS Sample Code));

	that of the five items I've ordered, three were delayed,
	averaging a week to come back into stock;

	and that their disk storage pages are designed for 5 1/4"
	disks, so Macintosh (3 1/2") disks fall right out.

Obviously, I am a fairly satisfied customer. I just hope that Inside
Mac gets rewritten someday.

bc

Jim.Spencer@p5.f22.n282.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Spencer) (03/04/90)

 >My only gripes with APDA of late have been:
 >   that "Programmers' Guide to Multifinder" is out-of-date,
 >   covering version 1.0 of Multifinder (although this is only a
 >   guess since NO version information is provided, other than the
 >   copyright year), and therefore rather overpriced at $20 for 97
 >   pages (including a sample program listing but NO disk (but
 >   that sample program is now outdated, anyway, and is found in
 >   the DTS Sample Code));
 >
 >   that of the five items I've ordered, three were delayed,
 >   averaging a week to come back into stock;
 >
 >   and that their disk storage pages are designed for 5 1/4"
 >   disks, so Macintosh (3 1/2") disks fall right out.
 >
 >Obviously, I am a fairly satisfied customer. I just hope that Inside
 >Mac gets rewritten someday.

Well I'm glad someone is satisfied.  In my case they billed me last Fall for 
my annual membership which wasn't due until now.  When I called them, they 
said to ignore the bill, they had a foulup that effected several customers. 
Nevertheless, in November, they failed to send me the Fall APDALog.  In 
January I called them and they told me that according to their records, my 
membership had lapsed last January (it wouldn't have run until March even if I 
hadn't paid the bill which I did).  Now, like clockwork, my bill for the next 
year arrives but interestingly, they haven't published a catalog in 6 months. 
I got much better service when APDA was handled by the outsiders in 
Washington.

--  
Jim Spencer - via FidoNet node 1:282/33
UUCP: ...!uunet!imagery!22.5!Jim.Spencer
ARPA: Jim.Spencer@p5.f22.n282.z1.FIDONET.ORG

Eric.Larson@f22.n282.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Eric Larson) (03/05/90)

 BC>         that of the five items I've ordered, three were
 BC> delayed  averaging a week to come back into stock;


You have had far better success with APDA than I have. The last time I 
placed an order with APDA I had the following occur:

  1) My credit card was overcharged $550
  2) The two items I ordered were both out of stock,
   the second took two months to be delivered.
  3) I received a double  shipment of the first item I ordered.

It took four months for Apple to get around removing the credit card charge 
from my bill, during which time my credit card company was harassing me. 

I also notice that APDA is skipping publishing an issue of APDAlog.

I will _never_ order anything not absolutely necessary from APDA again; it 
wouldn't be as bad if you didn't have to give them a credit card number to 
place an order, but they won't accept checks.

Despite the problems with APDA before it was taken over by Apple, this is 
far worse.  
 

--  
Eric Larson - via FidoNet node 1:282/33
UUCP: ...!uunet!imagery!22!Eric.Larson
ARPA: Eric.Larson@f22.n282.z1.FIDONET.ORG

baumgart@esquire.dpw.com (Steve Baumgarten) (03/08/90)

In article <22.25F25578@imagery.FIDONET.ORG>, Jim.Spencer@p5 (Jim Spencer) writes:
>Well I'm glad someone is satisfied.  In my case they billed me last
>Fall for my annual membership which wasn't due until now.  When I
>called them, they said to ignore the bill, they had a foulup that
>effected several customers.  Nevertheless, in November, they failed
>to send me the Fall APDALog.  In January I called them and they told
>me that according to their records, my membership had lapsed last
>January (it wouldn't have run until March even if I hadn't paid the
>bill which I did).  Now, like clockwork, my bill for the next year
>arrives but interestingly, they haven't published a catalog in 6
>months.  I got much better service when APDA was handled by the
>outsiders in Washington.

I thought it was just me.  They still owe me the rest of last year's
tech notes -- I would have been better off finding some who could FTP
them for me and then just printing them out myself.  I've more or less
written the organization off, and it bothers me that I have to pay a
"membership fee" to get such consistently shoddy service.

Why on earth is everything a problem with these people?  They're not a
young startup anymore, so they can't use that excuse.  Hell, I'm not
even griping about the somewhat inflated prices and bizarre shipping
and handling fees -- if they could just send me what I order in a
reasonable amount of time, and send me my APDAlog once in a while I'd
be happy.

--
   Steve Baumgarten             | "New York... when civilization falls apart,
   Davis Polk & Wardwell        |  remember, we were way ahead of you."
   baumgart@esquire.dpw.com     | 
   cmcl2!esquire!baumgart       |                           - David Letterman

viking@silver.ucs.indiana.edu (Jon W. Backstrom) (03/09/90)

In article <25F25575> Eric.Larson@f22.n282.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Eric Larson) writes:
>
>I will _never_ order anything not absolutely necessary from APDA again; it 
>wouldn't be as bad if you didn't have to give them a credit card number to 
>place an order, but they won't accept checks.
>
>Eric Larson - via FidoNet node 1:282/33
>UUCP: ...!uunet!imagery!22!Eric.Larson
>ARPA: Eric.Larson@f22.n282.z1.FIDONET.ORG

They accepted *my* check for $293 just last week, so I don't think
you're correct about this.  I'm sorry to hear about your problems,
however.

I have found the APDA personnel to be *very* friendly and helpful, but
it did take two shots to get my latest order right.  I think this is
more a problem with Cupertino getting the right information to the
shipping department in Santa Clara.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Jon W. Backstrom                 "Yah sure...we gonna have fun, you bet!"
 Institute for Digital Arts
 P.O. Box 176                     Internet: viking@silver.ucs.indiana.edu
 Bloomington, IN  47402-0176      UUCP: {ames,rutgers,att}!iuvax!silver!viking
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

henry@chinet.chi.il.us (Henry C. Schmitt) (03/09/90)

In article <1839@esquire.UUCP> baumgart@esquire.dpw.com (Steve Baumgarten) writes:
>In article <22.25F25578@imagery.FIDONET.ORG>, Jim.Spencer@p5 (Jim Spencer) writes:
>>Well I'm glad someone is satisfied.  In my case they billed me last
>>Fall for my annual membership which wasn't due until now.  When I
>>called them, they said to ignore the bill, they had a foulup that
>>effected several customers.  Nevertheless, in November, they failed
>>to send me the Fall APDALog.  In January I called them and they told
>>me that according to their records, my membership had lapsed last
>>January (it wouldn't have run until March even if I hadn't paid the
>>bill which I did).  Now, like clockwork, my bill for the next year
>>arrives but interestingly, they haven't published a catalog in 6
>>months.  I got much better service when APDA was handled by the
>>outsiders in Washington.
>
>I thought it was just me.  They still owe me the rest of last year's
>tech notes -- I would have been better off finding some who could FTP
>them for me and then just printing them out myself.  I've more or less
>written the organization off, and it bothers me that I have to pay a
>"membership fee" to get such consistently shoddy service.
>
>Why on earth is everything a problem with these people?  They're not a
>young startup anymore, so they can't use that excuse.  Hell, I'm not
>even griping about the somewhat inflated prices and bizarre shipping
>and handling fees -- if they could just send me what I order in a
>reasonable amount of time, and send me my APDAlog once in a while I'd
>be happy.
>

I haven't received any APDAlogs since last summer's issue either!  I
gave up on trying to get any tech notes from them as they're always
3-4 months late!

Every time I call them about this, I get promises that "I'll put the
catalog in the mail myself" but nothing happens!

I think we should break up their monopoloy, if they had to compete,
they'd have gone out of business long ago.

Please, everyone who's having problems, send them email at
APDA@applelink.apple.com!
-- 
  H3nry C. Schmitt     | CompuServe: 72275,1456  (Rarely)
                       | GEnie: H.Schmitt  (Occasionally)
 Royal Inn of Yoruba   | UUCP: Henry@chinet.chi.il.us  (Best Bet)

baumgart@esquire.dpw.com (Steve Baumgarten) (03/14/90)

In article <1990Mar9.055910.1559@chinet.chi.il.us>, henry@chinet (Henry C. Schmitt) writes:
>I haven't received any APDAlogs since last summer's issue either!  I
>gave up on trying to get any tech notes from them as they're always
>3-4 months late!
>
>Every time I call them about this, I get promises that "I'll put the
>catalog in the mail myself" but nothing happens!
>
>I think we should break up their monopoloy, if they had to compete,
>they'd have gone out of business long ago.
>
>Please, everyone who's having problems, send them email at
>APDA@applelink.apple.com!
>-- 
>  H3nry C. Schmitt     | CompuServe: 72275,1456  (Rarely)
>                       | GEnie: H.Schmitt  (Occasionally)
> Royal Inn of Yoruba   | UUCP: Henry@chinet.chi.il.us  (Best Bet)

Well, sometimes griping in public gets results.  Over the weekend I
got some mail from Phil Ostrom (OSTROM1@applelink.apple.com), the APDA
operations manager.  He seemed quite sympathetic and concerned, and
promised to send me the latest APDAlog and the 1989 tech notes that I
paid for but never received.

For everyone's information, the last issue of APDAlog was the fall '89
issue, so that's why no one's gotten one since.  They're supposed to
be mailing the new issue by the end of the month.

It was also interesting to find out that APDA has no record of my tech
note order -- even though I ordered the notes in July and they did in
fact ship the tech notes from the beginning of the year.  Fortunately
I saved my receipt.  You'd think a computer company would be able to
just put all this in a database, but what do I know?

I'll let everyone know how this comes out.  APDA sure has a lot of
problems, but it's good to know that someone cares about the
situation. 

--
   Steve Baumgarten             | "New York... when civilization falls apart,
   Davis Polk & Wardwell        |  remember, we were way ahead of you."
   baumgart@esquire.dpw.com     | 
   cmcl2!esquire!baumgart       |                           - David Letterman

henry@chinet.chi.il.us (Henry C. Schmitt) (03/15/90)

In article <1848@esquire.UUCP> baumgart@esquire.dpw.com (Steve Baumgarten) writes:
>In article <1990Mar9.055910.1559@chinet.chi.il.us>, henry@chinet (Henry C. Schmitt) writes:
>> [I gripe about problems with APDA]
>
>Well, sometimes griping in public gets results.  Over the weekend I
>got some mail from Phil Ostrom (OSTROM1@applelink.apple.com), the APDA
>operations manager.  He seemed quite sympathetic and concerned, and
>promised to send me the latest APDAlog and the 1989 tech notes that I
>paid for but never received.
>

I also got mail from Phil Ostrom with the same promise.  It's nice
to know that they're now watching the USENet News.  I sent mail to
APDA@applelink.apple.com and got a reply from Karen Walker (?) at
the same time.  However because my signature file didn't get
included in my message, she didn't have my name so she sent me mail
to ask what it was.

So if you've been having problems with APDA, send them a message (or
gripe about it here) and you get a reply.  I'll be sure to post when
the stuff arrives.
-- 
  H3nry C. Schmitt     | CompuServe: 72275,1456  (Rarely)
                       | GEnie: H.Schmitt  (Occasionally)
 Royal Inn of Yoruba   | UUCP: Henry@chinet.chi.il.us  (Best Bet)

baumgart@esquire.dpw.com (Steve Baumgarten) (03/21/90)

In article <1848@esquire.UUCP>, baumgart@esquire (Steve Baumgarten) writes:
>I'll let everyone know how this comes out.  APDA sure has a lot of
>problems, but it's good to know that someone cares about the
>situation. 

The promised 1989 tech notes arrived last week.  With the exception of
June (which was backordered), they were all there.  I didn't get the
copy of APDAlog that Phil promised to send, but since I already have
it that's just as well.

So there may be some hope for APDA yet.  Now let's just see if they
remember to send me a renewal notice...

--
   Steve Baumgarten             | "New York... when civilization falls apart,
   Davis Polk & Wardwell        |  remember, we were way ahead of you."
   baumgart@esquire.dpw.com     | 
   cmcl2!esquire!baumgart       |                           - David Letterman

philip@Kermit.Stanford.EDU (Philip Machanick) (03/22/90)

Another item: I joined APDA a few weeks ago, mainly to get an upgraded
Allegro Common Lisp (which I bought before Apple bought the company).

All I received from Apple was the product itself, which turns out to be
defective. If I hadn't been reading the net, I would have had to contact
APDA myself to discover that a free replacement was due to me. Also, I did
not receive APDALog, or any other documentation (e.g., how to order APDA
products, or an invoice confirming that the cheque I sent was for the
right amount).

I wonder: could this kind of thing could put some people off?

Philip Machanick
philip@pescadero.stanford.edu