[comp.sys.mac.programmer] SADE docs VERY disappointing!

shite@unf7.UUCP (Stephen Hite) (06/28/90)

  Subject says it all.  I outlay this kinda cash (I have MPW C 3.1 bundle
and beta MPW C++) and I get the bare minimum in documentation for SADE with
no recourse such as buying a user's guide from APDA or a bookstore.

  I can't honestly say that SADE is a powerful debugging environment 
(although I suspect from what *is* there suggests that it can be)
because it's development team did not take the time and effort to 
express it in words on paper in a well-organized and detailed manner. 

-----------------------------
Steve Hite                         
...gatech!uflorida!unf7!shite

cory@three.MV.COM (Cory Kempf) (07/01/90)

shite@unf7.UUCP (Stephen Hite) writes:

>  Subject says it all.  I outlay this kinda cash (I have MPW C 3.1 bundle
>and beta MPW C++) and I get the bare minimum in documentation for SADE with
>no recourse such as buying a user's guide from APDA or a bookstore.

>  I can't honestly say that SADE is a powerful debugging environment 
>(although I suspect from what *is* there suggests that it can be)
>because it's development team did not take the time and effort to 
>express it in words on paper in a well-organized and detailed manner. 

I have to agree.  I was all excited when I first heard about SADE.  I was
expecting something with at least as much power/usability as the Think C
debugger.  Currently, SADE is last on my list of tools to use when I am
trying to debug code.  About the only thing that I can get it to do is 
allow me to single step through my C++ code.  And what few variables it
does allow me to look at seem to insist on coming up in pascal format (yes,
it is a nit, but it IS an annoyance).

I wonder if the folks at Think have though of enhancing their debugger 
to handle the SADE symbol output?  and C++?  If they do, (and are willing
to make it a stand alone product) I'ld buy it.  As it is, I am very
disappointed with SADE, to the extent of considering shifting to the 
THINK environment if they ever get C++ (and accepting the loss of 
functionality that MPW provides).  Unfortunately, since SADE is bundled
in with MPW, I will probably be forced to purchase a worthless upgrade when
I upgrade C++.  Sigh.

+C
-- 
Cory Kempf				I do speak for the company (sometimes).
Three Letter Company						603 883 2474
email: cory@three.mv.com, harvard!zinn!three!cory

keith@Apple.COM (Keith Rollin) (07/03/90)

In article <386@three.MV.COM> cory@three.MV.COM (Cory Kempf) writes:
>shite@unf7.UUCP (Stephen Hite) writes:
>
>>  Subject says it all.  I outlay this kinda cash (I have MPW C 3.1 bundle
>>and beta MPW C++) and I get the bare minimum in documentation for SADE with
>>no recourse such as buying a user's guide from APDA or a bookstore.
>
>>  I can't honestly say that SADE is a powerful debugging environment 
>>(although I suspect from what *is* there suggests that it can be)
>>because it's development team did not take the time and effort to 
>>express it in words on paper in a well-organized and detailed manner. 
>
>I have to agree.  I was all excited when I first heard about SADE.  I was
>expecting something with at least as much power/usability as the Think C
>debugger.  Currently, SADE is last on my list of tools to use when I am
>trying to debug code.  About the only thing that I can get it to do is 
>allow me to single step through my C++ code.  And what few variables it
>does allow me to look at seem to insist on coming up in pascal format (yes,
>it is a nit, but it IS an annoyance).
>
>I wonder if the folks at Think have though of enhancing their debugger 
>to handle the SADE symbol output?  and C++?  If they do, (and are willing
>to make it a stand alone product) I'ld buy it.  As it is, I am very
>disappointed with SADE, to the extent of considering shifting to the 
>THINK environment if they ever get C++ (and accepting the loss of 
>functionality that MPW provides).  Unfortunately, since SADE is bundled
>in with MPW, I will probably be forced to purchase a worthless upgrade when
>I upgrade C++.  Sigh.

I just wanted to let y'all know that we're working on a new SADE
manual. There was just a review draft released internally, and it's
very encouraging. There were even 2 Tutorial chapters: one for C and a
similar one for Pascal. I find that I'm using SADE more and more, now
that I know more about it.

SADE is not bundled with MPW. Or rather, it is, but MPW and SADE can also
be purchased separately from each other.

I don't know when the manual will be out.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keith Rollin  ---  Apple Computer, Inc.  ---  Developer Technical Support
INTERNET: keith@apple.com
    UUCP: {decwrl, hoptoad, nsc, sun, amdahl}!apple!keith
"Argue for your Apple, and sure enough, it's yours" - Keith Rollin, Contusions

cory@three.MV.COM (Cory Kempf) (07/07/90)

keith@Apple.COM (Keith Rollin) writes:

>I just wanted to let y'all know that we're working on a new SADE
>manual. There was just a review draft released internally, and it's
>very encouraging. There were even 2 Tutorial chapters: one for C and a
>similar one for Pascal. I find that I'm using SADE more and more, now
>that I know more about it.

But What About C++??!!!!  I can get SADE to work OK with C (and
I can live with the Pascal format output), but I have yet to be
able to poke around inside the members of the classes that I create.

Since I am programming in C++, this is critical.  As it is, the only
way I can do this (other than write some special code) is via Macsbug.

Which is why I am very disapointed.  SADE is supposed to work with the
entire MPW language suite (at least that is how it was introduced to me)

>SADE is not bundled with MPW. Or rather, it is, but MPW and SADE can also
>be purchased separately from each other.

Yes, I am aware that I can pay more to get MPW, C, C++, Asm., Et Al, 
seperately.

>I don't know when the manual will be out.
If a new manual can fix this, I will be glad to take back all of the
bad things that I have said about SADE (even the things that I said 
while debugging C++ with it).  I'm skeptical though.  Is there some
secret switch that allows me to work in C++?  

+C
-- 
Cory Kempf				I do speak for the company (sometimes).
Three Letter Company						603 883 2474
email: cory@three.mv.com, harvard!zinn!three!cory

kaufman@Neon.Stanford.EDU (Marc T. Kaufman) (07/08/90)

In article <389@three.MV.COM> cory@three.MV.COM (Cory Kempf) writes:

>But What About C++??!!!!  I can get SADE to work OK with C (and
>I can live with the Pascal format output), but I have yet to be
>able to poke around inside the members of the classes that I create.

I think that "The Debugger" by Steve Jasik will let you do this.

Marc Kaufman (kaufman@Neon.stanford.edu)