ews00461@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (07/12/90)
/* Written 2:24 pm Jul 11, 1990 by ews00461@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu in uxa.cso.uiuc.edu:comp.os.mach */ /* ---------- "Mac Mach ???" ---------- */ I have heard that Mach has been ported to the Macintosh, in its totally free (no ATT code) form. It was running under the Finder, and multiple finders were running, without knowledge of each other. Does anyone know anything about this ? When will it be released to the public ? Is this a viable possibility for use by the average user to attain pre-emptive multitasking ? Is this a viable possibility for the user wanting to hack the innards of an OS for learning purposes ? Eric W Sink /* End of text from uxa.cso.uiuc.edu:comp.os.mach */
tjc@castle.ed.ac.uk (A J Cunningham) (07/12/90)
The MACH newsgroup did list the Mac as a machine which had had the kernel ported to it. This was Macs with a 68030 though (I can't remember if machines with an 020 and a MMU were also able to run MACH). The code was listed as being unavailable to the public due to some kind of negotiations with Apple. This was a while back though so I'd be interested in hearing if anyone has more recent news of the software. Tony -- Tony Cunningham, Edinburgh University Computing Service. tjc@castle.ed.ac.uk If a man among you has no sin upon his hand Let him throw a stone at me for playing in the band.
philip@pescadero.Stanford.EDU (Philip Machanick) (07/13/90)
In article <5126@castle.ed.ac.uk>, tjc@castle.ed.ac.uk (A J Cunningham) writes: > > The MACH newsgroup did list the Mac as a machine which had had > the kernel ported to it. This was Macs with a 68030 though (I can't > remember if machines with an 020 and a MMU were also able to run MACH). > The code was listed as being unavailable to the public due to some kind > of negotiations with Apple. This was a while back though so I'd be > interested in hearing if anyone has more recent news of the software. I seem to recall someone who went to a USENIX conference recently mentioned seeing a demo on video. That's all I know about it... Philip Machanick philip@pescadero.stanford.edu
ml10+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael A. Libes) (07/13/90)
MacMach exists and is being further developed at Carnegie Mellon
University. Mach replaces the MacOS when it is running, it is not run
from inside Finder. The Mac is booted in MacOS, but a cdev/INIT allows
you to choose whether to continue booting on MacOS or to boot up the
Mach kernel.
MacMach supports X11r4, AFS (Andrew Filing System), and the Berkeley
4.3Tahoe extensions. It runs on the SE/30, II (w/PMMU), IIx, and IIcx,
and will soon run on IIci's and IIfx's. We are also working on a Mac
emulator, i.e. running MacOS within a mach task. Unlike AUX, there is
no noticable speed decline when running Mac applications in the emulator.
MacMach is not currently being distributed. There are some users
here at CMU, but the distribution rights are owned by Apple. I don't
know what their plans are for the product.
If you have any other questions, feel free to send me email.
- Michael Libes (Luni)
MacMach Project
Carnegie Mellon Universityews00461@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (07/13/90)
Apple owns the rights to it !?? Why do I get the feeling that *whatever* they decide to do with it, it will be exactly what the users do not want ? Eric
tjc@castle.ed.ac.uk (A J Cunningham) (07/13/90)
In article <IabDUi200UzxI2MYpS@andrew.cmu.edu> ml10+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael A. Libes) writes: > [Description of MacMach's capabilities deleted] > MacMach is not currently being distributed. There are some users >here at CMU, but the distribution rights are owned by Apple. I don't >know what their plans are for the product. Well I can guess. They'll bury it. They'll sit on it. Maybe use some of it to enhance AUX but continue to screw the users for a fortune to get that. What else can you expect from an enemy of free software. Or maybe I'm just a cynic. I guess our only hope is to find out who in Apple is responsible for the software and campaign to get Apple to release it to users. Tony -- Tony Cunningham, Edinburgh University Computing Service. tjc@castle.ed.ac.uk If a man among you has no sin upon his hand Let him throw a stone at me for playing in the band.
beard@ux5.lbl.gov (Patrick C Beard) (07/17/90)
In article <5148@castle.ed.ac.uk> tjc@castle.ed.ac.uk (A J Cunningham) writes: #In article <IabDUi200UzxI2MYpS@andrew.cmu.edu> ml10+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael A. Libes) writes: #> MacMach is not currently being distributed. There are some users #>here at CMU, but the distribution rights are owned by Apple. I don't #>know what their plans are for the product. # # Well I can guess. They'll bury it. They'll sit on it. Maybe use some #of it to enhance AUX but continue to screw the users for a fortune to get that. #What else can you expect from an enemy of free software. Or maybe I'm just a #cynic. # I guess our only hope is to find out who in Apple is responsible #for the software and campaign to get Apple to release it to users. # Tony Hear ye, hear ye! We want Mach! I agree wholeheartedly with most of the above comments. This sounds like some serious development. What are the downsides to Mac Mach? It sounds like a better product than A/UX from previous article's descriptions. Give us more information! -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Patrick Beard, Macintosh Programmer (beard@lbl.gov) - - Berkeley Systems, Inc. ".......<dead air>.......Good day!" - Paul Harvey - -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
chewy@apple.com (Paul Snively) (07/19/90)
In article <6189@helios.ee.lbl.gov> beard@ux5.lbl.gov (Patrick C Beard) writes: > In article <5148@castle.ed.ac.uk> tjc@castle.ed.ac.uk (A J Cunningham) writes: > #In article <IabDUi200UzxI2MYpS@andrew.cmu.edu> ml10+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael A. Libes) writes: > #> MacMach is not currently being distributed. There are some users > #>here at CMU, but the distribution rights are owned by Apple. I don't > #>know what their plans are for the product. > # > # Well I can guess. They'll bury it. They'll sit on it. I doubt both of these very much--we don't generally throw money at projects only to "bury" or "sit on" them. My understanding with respect to MacMACH is that the IIci and IIfx ports are not yet done. > #Maybe use some of it to enhance AUX but continue to screw the users for a > #fortune to get that. You'll have to excuse me if I have difficulty accepting the idea that $800 for A/UX is "screwing the users for a fortune" when stacked up against other UNIX pricing structures. > #What else can you expect from an enemy of free software. Well, some of us make our living at writing software and can't afford to be ivory-tower pedants. Little things like feeding a family, etc. rear their ugly heads. Can I take your comment to mean that you give away everything that you (A J Cunningham) write? > #Or maybe I'm just a cynic. Clearly. > Hear ye, hear ye! We want Mach! So do I! > I agree wholeheartedly with most of the above comments. Which just goes to show how unjustifiably paranoid some folks can be. We're not "holding anything back;" two major ports of MacMACH are not yet complete from what I understand. Also incomplete is the software to allow Macintosh applications to run under MACH. In other words, there seems to still be a lot of work to be done. __________________________________________________________________________ Paul Snively Macintosh Developer Technical Support Apple Computer, Inc. chewy@apple.com Just because I work for Apple Computer, Inc. doesn't mean that I believe what they believe, or vice-versa. __________________________________________________________________________
ml10+@andrew.cmu.edu (Michael A. Libes) (07/20/90)
By popular demand, a brief account of the status of MacMach:
- The kernel runs on the following models: II, IIx, IIcx, and SE/30.
- It does not yet run on IIci's and IIfx's.
- It is a full unix implimentation with Berkeley 4.3 and CMU extentions.
- The Mac Emulator is still under development. It is not as integrated with
MacOS as A/UX. Within the emulator, programs can use most of the ROMs
plus make unix system calls.
- The Emulator runs as a virtual Macintosh. The MacOS runs in user mode. Most
of supervisor mode is simulated by the Emulator program.
- MacMach is not a large project. There are currently only 4 programmers on
the project, two of which are undergrads (one of them being myself).
I hope this quells the rumors...
-----------------------------------------
Michael Libes
MacMach Project
Carnegie Mellon University
ml10@andrew.cmu.edu
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This is not an official statement of
any type. It is just some information
provided by a programmer on the team.
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