KPURCELL@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK (07/07/90)
Are people using these in anger? Anybody used both? I have heard that the code is smaller and nicer out of AppMaker, but the UI and demo facilities in Prototyper are better (why is it always this way :-) I'd like to hear your opinions -- I'll summerise an post if there is interest. Kevin Purcell ...........................Comments? Questions? Flames? Applause? \ Surface Science \ Computer users should be aware of the metamathmatical \ Liverpool University \ bugs lurking around God's programing of the integers. \ Liverpool L69 3BX \ Arithmetic 1.0.1 is expected to be released soon.
ech@cbnewsk.att.com (ned.horvath) (07/11/90)
From article <90187.184716KPURCELL@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK>, by KPURCELL@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK: > Are people using these in anger? Anybody used both? I have heard that the > code is smaller and nicer out of AppMaker, but the UI and demo facilities in > Prototyper are better (why is it always this way :-) I've used both. Prototyper is a good prototyping tool - you can get a "mock up" going pretty quickly. The code it generates isn't real swell, and once you start coding you pretty well have to abandon Prototyper: you DON'T want to change the prototype, regen the code, and have to re-merge all the changes you've already done. AppMaker is weaker at faking up connections between menu commands/window buttons and bringing up other windows. In my opinion -- and I posted a long review here a couple months back, say April -- this is overwhelmed by several very useful characteristics: - you can generate Think Class Library code. AppMaker does this very intelligently, creating classes with reasonable "default" behavior, and override classes where you can put your stuff. The former are regenerated upon demand, the latter are only created the first time, so your code is preserved. This makes AppMaker useful as the project proceeds, not just at the prototyping phase. - The code is generated from "templates" held as resources in AppMaker. I've hacked these a fair bit, mostly to change the default classes used by AppMaker (e.g. CEditText) to something I prefer (e.g. CDialogEdit). - Several new classes come with AppMaker to extend the class library. In short, AppMaker 1.1 is the superior product for serious work. On the other hand, a close friend has used ProtoTyper a fair bit for putting a minimal Mac interface on several applications he's ported from Unix, and has been quite successful despite never cracking Inside Macintosh. So I recommend both. I'm using AppMaker... =Ned Horvath=
sobiloff@agnes.acc.stolaf.edu (Chrome Cboy) (07/16/90)
In article <90187.184716KPURCELL@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK> KPURCELL@LIVERPOOL.AC.UK writes: >[...] Anybody used both? I have heard that the >code is smaller and nicer out of AppMaker, but the UI and demo facilities in >Prototyper are better (why is it always this way :-) > >I'd like to hear your opinions -- I'll summerise an post if >there is interest. I haven't used AppMaker, but I am currently using Prototyper to work on my first "real" Mac program, so this is from a novice's POV. Prototyper is fairly nice to work with when you are mocking-up a program's interface--the construction is like a nice blend of MacDraw and HyperCard. The program, though, does seem to be a bit rough around the edges--just look at the README file that comes with it and you'll understand what I mean. It admits to several small (albeit slightly annoying) bugs (like losing the names of fields and buttons). I hear that version 3 is supposedly almost gold, so I'll have to wait and see what gets fixed. The code that is generated has helped me get a handle on Mac programming, but it sure isn't very high-quality stuff. No utilization of objects for THINK C programmers, either, but then again I guess v.2 came out before TC4. :-) Any- way, the code works, which is most important, and is certainly readable enough (esp. with the verbose option on) that a novice like me can figure it out fairly easily. An earlier poster remarked on what a pain it was to go back and make modifications to the prototype--YES! I guess AppMaker is better in this respect... One funky error I had when using the program (#include novice_error) was that I forgot to delete the default "Static Text" from inside a couple of edit text fields before running the code generator. When I tried using ResEdit to edit the resource directly the darned words wouldn't go away! According to ResEdit the words were vapor, but every time I ran the program they still appeared... I finally had to re-generate the code all over to get rid of 'em. I guess the words were stored somewhere in the code???? Anyway, I'd give the product a "B/B+" rating: a good aid for novices, even if it's a little rough around the edges. :-) -CCb -- Sig file? I don't know what to put in my .sig file! I could bitch about the bozo who hit my car and left without a trace, but that wouldn't be interesting. I could offer some nugget of wisdom! "You win, you lose. You lose, you lose. You break even, you lose. You just plain lose." There. Happy now? So what... :-)
wlj1@cunixb.cc.columbia.edu (Wayne L Jebian) (07/24/90)
I'm posting this for a friend, whose account has been killed by the University, so this is positively not my responsibility.... from Rens Troost (formerly rt2@cunixb.columbia.edu) I've been using appmaker, and am very pleased with it. There were a few bugs in the generated code (Think C with TCL) but they were easily fixed; you can modify the templates with resedit, and customize the output to your heart's delight. I wish they would clean a few things up, perhaps allow you to bring objects to the front and rear, but it's a damn good product. For those hacks out there, Bowers (the manufacturer) will provide documantation for their template language, so the program can be <<<easily>>> modified to produce code in real C++, ADA, lisp, or whatever you speak. This is not advertised, but I like it a lot... I'm modifying the program now to work with my own query language. If you want to get this, wait a few months: a new release is scheduled and it seems they will be charging for the upgrade.... have fun! I am in no way connected to bowers development or AppMaker, aside from being a satisfied customer. -Rens Troost.