negandh@watcsc.waterloo.edu (Neil Negandhi) (11/09/90)
I am thinking of purchasing Think C V4.0 but before I do, a few questions: I plan to run it on a 1 meg Mac+. Is this sufficient for the programming environment? How complete is the documentation that comes with it? I looked in my local bookstore and purchasing IM Vol 1-5 would set me back another ~$175. Is there an alternative to purchasing the whole set? I just want to develop some single-user applications and I am familiar with ANSI C. Are there any programming tools that I should buy with Think C? Thank you for your time. Neil Negandhi nnegandh@watcsc.waterloo.edu
cheshire@Neon.Stanford.EDU (Stuart David Cheshire) (11/09/90)
In article <1990Nov8.161941.8062@watcsc.waterloo.edu> negandh@watcsc.waterloo.edu (Neil Negandhi) writes: >I am thinking of purchasing Think C V4.0 but before I do, a few questions: > >I plan to run it on a 1 meg Mac+. Is this sufficient for the programming >environment? > >How complete is the documentation that comes with it? I looked in my local >bookstore and purchasing IM Vol 1-5 would set me back another ~$175. >Is there an alternative to purchasing the whole set? I just want to develop >some single-user applications and I am familiar with ANSI C. > >Are there any programming tools that I should buy with Think C? > >Thank you for your time. > >Neil Negandhi >nnegandh@watcsc.waterloo.edu Think C 4.02 is great. It just about runs on a 1Mb Mac+, but not the source debugger which needs to run under Multifinder. Anyway you have little choice - I'd recommend it as your best option. The documentation is fine for writing simple UNIX-style command line programs. If you want to write Native Mac style programs you ALWAYS need IM 1-5. No way round it. They're so complete (and definitive - ie. from Apple) that no one has ever tried to write an alternative. However, Macintosh Revealed may be useful as a suppliment. IM can be a bit cryptic. Think C has all you need. Built in assembler. Even comes with Macsbug (I think) Stuart Cheshire (cheshire@cs.stanford.edu)
paul@u02.svl.cdc.com (Paul Kohlmiller) (11/10/90)
cheshire@Neon.Stanford.EDU (Stuart David Cheshire) writes: >In article <1990Nov8.161941.8062@watcsc.waterloo.edu> negandh@watcsc.waterloo.edu (Neil Negandhi) writes: >>I am thinking of purchasing Think C V4.0 but before I do, a few questions: >> >>I plan to run it on a 1 meg Mac+. Is this sufficient for the programming >>environment? >> [ Questions about documentation ... ] >Think C 4.02 is great. It just about runs on a 1Mb Mac+, but not the source >debugger which needs to run under Multifinder. Anyway you have little choice - >I'd recommend it as your best option. Lightspeed C worked with 1 MB but Think C 4.0 would not run "Hello World" unless I got rid of all of my INITs. So 1MB is a very tight fit. >The documentation is fine for writing simple UNIX-style command line programs. >If you want to write Native Mac style programs you ALWAYS need IM 1-5. No way >round it. They're so complete (and definitive - ie. from Apple) that no one >has ever tried to write an alternative. However, Macintosh Revealed may be >useful as a suppliment. IM can be a bit cryptic. When I got Think C it came with some special deal that included a book by Cartwright and Reed (sp?). The book is a help but it is not IM and it did not fit with Think C 4.0 but the earlier version instead. Good Luck. Paul K. -- // Paul H. Kohlmiller // "Cybers, Macs and Mips" // // Control Data Corporation // Internet: paul@u02.svl.cdc.com // // All comments are strictly // America Online: Paul CDC // // my own. // Compuserve: 71170,2064 //
rmh@apple.com (Rick Holzgrafe) (11/10/90)
In article <1990Nov9.101313.25766@Neon.Stanford.EDU> cheshire@Neon.Stanford.EDU (Stuart David Cheshire) writes: > If you want to write Native Mac style programs you ALWAYS need IM 1-5. You can skip volume 5. While it's nice to have, its main use is for programming color and styled text. The Plus won't do color, so you shouldn't need that. Styled text is nice but it's not simple and almost no-one bothers with it. Volume 5 also covers some fancy menu stuff, fancy sound stuff, fancy font stuff, and other subtle enhancements that most straight-forward apps will not need. You could even try getting along without volume 4. It's mainly for programming HFS, but apps with simple standard file IO don't need that. It also covers the List Manager which is neat but not to die for. The rest, like the rest of volume 5, is subtle stuff that most apps don't need. Start with Volumes 1-3, which really are essential, and get the rest when you need them and can afford them. Also look for a copy of the Tech Notes, available free from several sources; they're a tremendous help. ========================================================================== Rick Holzgrafe | {sun,voder,nsc,mtxinu,dual}!apple!rmh Software Engineer | AppleLink HOLZGRAFE1 rmh@apple.com Apple Computer, Inc. | "All opinions expressed are mine, and do 20525 Mariani Ave. MS: 3-PK | not necessarily represent those of my Cupertino, CA 95014 | employer, Apple Computer Inc."
oster@well.sf.ca.us (David Phillip Oster) (11/10/90)
In article <1990Nov8.161941.8062@watcsc.waterloo.edu> negandh@watcsc.waterloo.edu (Neil Negandhi) writes:
_>I am thinking of purchasing Think C V4.0 but before I do, a few questions:
_>I plan to run it on a 1 meg Mac+. Is this sufficient for the programming
_>environment?
_>How complete is the documentation that comes with it? I looked in my local
_>bookstore and purchasing IM Vol 1-5 would set me back another ~$175.
_>Is there an alternative to purchasing the whole set? I just want to develop
_>some single-user applications and I am familiar with ANSI C.
_>Are there any programming tools that I should buy with Think C?
You can run THINK C in 1 Meg., but you'll want to keep your source files
shorter than 32k each. You won't be able to use the source level debugger,
very well, because it requires multifinder and your program, THINK C, finder,
the C debugger, the assembly language debugger (macsbug) that comes with
the package, all in memory at once is a tight squeeze for 1Meg, but quite
comfortable at 2.5 meg. The documentation for the compiler is complete, and
for the huge subroutine library that is included is quite good (the source
for a fairly complete MacPaint style paint program is included.)
You will also need:
Inside Mac 1 & 2.
You'll need IM4 if you do anything sophisticated with the file system,
since all the calls that manipulate directories are defined here. Also
List Manager.
You'll need IM5 if you do anything with multi-font text edit. Although,
single font text edit is documented in IM 1. PopUp menus and hierarchical
menus are documented here, although normal menus are in IM1. CDEVs, INITs,
and Chooser devices are documented here. Most of the rest of the book is
about color quickdraw or the sound manager that does not run very well on
a MacPlus.
You'll need Scott Knaster's book: "How to Write Macintosh Software", which
is full of great debugging tips, and a terrific intro to the memory manager.
A 68000 assembly language manual is also a good debugging tool.
I wrote commercial software for years on a 1Meg MacPlus with just
IM1&2, and Knaster, but that was all there was in those long-ago days.
You can certainly get started with that.
Next, buy some memory. At $40.00 a Meg, $80 will give you a 2.5 meg
machine. Multifinder, and the THINK C source level debugger makes
writing code a whole new ball game.
Next, get IM4&5. Then the tech notes, available from APDA or from many on-line
services. Then the Developer's group CD-ROMs, and subscriptions to "develop"
and "MacTutor".
--
-- David Phillip Oster - Note new signature. Old one has gone Bye Bye.
-- oster@well.sf.ca.us = {backbone}!well!osterJim.Lynch@f444.n161.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Lynch) (11/15/90)
Absolutely get Think C!! Check the mail order houses...I think $165 was the
last number I read. As far as docs, I haven't checked them out a tenth as
much as inside mac...Suggestion: Get IM Vol. 1 and "Macintosh C Programming
Primer" by Dave Mark. _Do not_ get the disk of source; type it in yourself
and thereby touch it all! Next month get more IMs; start with Vol. V then
get II, IV and III. Once you have IM Vol I, read chapter 2. Hope this
helps...Let me know how you fare.
-Jim
--
Jim Lynch - via FidoNet node 1:125/777
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INTERNET: Jim.Lynch@f444.n161.z1.FIDONET.ORGJim.Lynch@f444.n161.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Jim Lynch) (11/15/90)
Hi again, I almost forgot the most important part: Get 3 more megs for your
plus ASAP (1.5 more is enuf for now but you will want 4 eventually since you
will mostly be running under multifinder); get MacsBug and use its stack
crawl feature to figure out where you are in your code; while 2 800k floppys
will probably be enuf at first, you will want a fast hard disk soon (or at
least when you get out of the learning curve and start developing your own
stuff. I recently bought the book 'Macintosh Revealed' (which comes in
several volumes), I'll get back to ya when I determine how useful it is in
comparison to Inside Mac.
-Jim
--
Jim Lynch - via FidoNet node 1:125/777
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INTERNET: Jim.Lynch@f444.n161.z1.FIDONET.ORG