Fat.Tag@SU-SIERRA.ARPA (11/05/83)
From: Tim Gonsalves <Fat.Tag@SU-SIERRA.ARPA> I am going through a rather unpleasant experience dealing with a discount/mail-order software retailer, Software-To-Go (aka Programmers International) of Palo Alto, CA. This message has two purposes: to warn others who are considering dealing with this firm what they may be subjected to, and to learn from others if there are honest, reputable, well-run discount/mail-order retailers in the PC field. On to the details. On Aug. 20, I ordered a version of The Final Word (a wordprocessor) from Software-To-Go. They told me that they did not have it in stock but would be able to get it in 2 weeks, and they wanted full payment in advance. Sounded good, so I paid the $225 + tax (list $300, advertised prices in Byte range from $200 - $300). After the 2 weeks had passed and I had heard nothing from them, I called and was told that it was expected in in a few days. A few days later, I called again and it was due the next day. This went on for the next 7-8 weeks. Everytime I called I was assured that it would be in "tomorrow", or "soon", or "early next week" and so on. At one point the manager gave me a specific date on which it had been shipped from "a distributor in the East" via UPS. A few days later, when it became obvious that nothing had been shipped, they dropped that story. About 10 weeks after I had placed the order, my patience was wearing thin. I asked them for a specific deadline by which they would be able to deliver the goods without further resort to their usual dilatory tactics. After some time they came back with the answer - "in 2 weeks"! I cancelled my order and was assured that my refund would be mailed to me. It normally takes the USPS 1-2 days to deliver a letter from Palo Alto to Stanford, a distance of 2-3 miles. Nine days later, yesterday, the refund had not yet appeared. Wearily, I picked up the phone and dialed the familiar number... This time I was told that not only could they not tell me why I had not got a refund or when I would get it, but that it could be several days before they even deigned to look into the matter. Several things about this outfit irritate me. Firstly, they make commitments that they cannot honour. If it does take 2 months or more to deliver a product at a discount, fine - if they tell me, so that I can decide whether the wait is worth the money to me. I also have a strong aversion to dealing with people to whom truth is apparently a complete stranger. There is a limit to the lies I can stomach before I get indigestion. Next, whilst I do not normally expect much in the way of service from a discount retailer, I do expect some when they are nearly two months behind their schedule. Besides the glib talk outlined above, on at least half a dozen occasions they promised to call me later in the day or the next day. (A local call; they volunteered, I did not ask them to call me, I was quite ready to call them). Only once, the time I cancelled the order, did they have the courtesy to actually call me. Well, I could go on at much greater length, but do not want to intrude on disk quotas or tie up 300 baud modems. Comments are invited, especially recommendations for good, cheap retailers (not, I hope, a contradiction in terms). Tim Gonsalves Gonsalves@SU-Sierra.Arpa -------
LIN%mit-ml@sri-unix.UUCP (11/06/83)
From: Herb Lin <LIN@mit-ml> my experience is that I never pay by check, always by credit card. in those cases, I can then withhold payment if/when I don't get the merchandise. It might also be worth noting some legal provisions: 1. If you don't get the merchandise, you can usually withhold payment on your credit card; most banks in my experience are pretty good about this. 2. the merchant is local (100 miles of your mailing address), you have the legal right to withhold payment if the merchandise proves defective. 3. If you do mail order business, and you submit your order by mail (NOT by phone), there are legal guidelines concerning refunds which must be followed if your merchandise is not available in a timely manner. For example, you are entitled to a refund if the goods aren't shipped in 60 days, they must notify you if they take more than 10 days. more precise details from the FTC office (on #2) or the Post Office (on mail order)
LCAMPBELL%dec-marlboro@sri-unix.UUCP (11/07/83)
From: Larry Campbell <LCAMPBELL@dec-marlboro> I have a much happier experience to relate. I've been dealing with a local mailorder house known as The Programmer's Shop (they specialize in software for programmers, rather than games, recipe files, etc.) Since they're located only a mile from my house I've actually dealt with them in person, although their not a "retail" outlet and are really basically mail-order. I've found them to be prompt, cheerful, knowledgeable, and trustworthy; refreshingly pleasant to deal with. They offer a moneyback guarantee on their products that I can vouch for. (I bought a product which, it turned out, would not run on my PC due to a misunderstanding on my part. They cheerfully refunded my money, even though I presumably could already have copied the program.) Coincidentally, my one majore purchase from them was also The Final Word. (Same price - $225). It took them two days to get it for me. Not bad. They are also very knowledgeable and have given me very good recommendations on products I've asked about. They're busy, so they don't want to yak all day, but if you have a specific technical product-related question they will give you a concise (and accurate) answer. These people are located in Maynard, Mass. (home of you-know-who, remember?) They have an 800 number but I don't have it handy; since they're a local call for me I call their regular number, (617) 897-4750. Sorry for the length of this, but I really can't say enough good things about these folks (and no, I'm not them, and I don't own stock inthem, etc. etc.) - Larry Campbell --------
ags@pucc-k (Seaman) (11/15/83)
Tim Gonsalves has related some unpleasant experiences with Software-To-Go
(Programming International) and asked for info on other mail-order firms.
I have not dealt with Software-To-Go, but I can pass along some other news,
mostly good. I have no affiliation with any of the companies mentioned here.
First, the bad news. I once attempted to phone in an order to Alpha Byte
Computer Products (31304 Via Colinas, Westlake CA 91362), only to get placed
on hold. I would not have minded so much, except that they do not have an
800 number. Every 15-20 seconds someone would come on the line to see whether
I was still there, then ask me to hold again. After 3 or 4 times I threatened
to hang up unless someone took my order. This got me switched immediately to
someone else (Aha! Now I'm getting somewhere!) only to be placed on hold again.
I hung up. I notice they have since added a modem line, but they still do not
have an 800 number. I have no intention of trying to deal with them again.
If you prefer to write rather than phone, you might want to give these guys
a chance.
The rest is good news. Each of the following companies has been reliable:
1. Conroy-La Pointe (formerly Computer Exchange) P.O. Box 23068, Portland OR
97223. I have ordered from them 4 times over the last 3 years (both
software and hardware) and I have never had any trouble. Delivery usually
takes 2-3 weeks. Their prices are not the lowest, but competitive with
others advertised in BYTE. My only bad experience here was that I once
mailed in an order and was hit by a price increase (the ad was 3 weeks
old at the time), which caused further delay because I had to send
additional payment. That's why I usually phone in orders now.
2. Orange Micro, 1400 N. Lakeview Ave., Anaheim CA 92807. I ordered a printer
from them (Epson MX-80 with Graftrax, then sold separately). The printer
arrived in about 2 weeks. The Graftrax chips proved faulty. I called,
got a return authorization and sent back the chips. New chips arrived
about 2 weeks later, and everything was fine. I also had the use of the
printer (minus Graftrax option) while I was waiting for the new chips.
3. Strictly Soft Ware, P.O. Box 338, Granville, Ohio 43023. I ordered from
them once about 2 years ago (three programs) and got very prompt service.
I believe they shipped the same day.
Let's here about other mail-order experiences.
Dave Seaman
..!pur-ee!pucc-k!agspreece@uicsl.UUCP (11/16/83)
#R:sri-arpa:-1337300:uicsl:7000033:000:444 uicsl!preece Nov 15 09:42:00 1983 My copy of the Final Word came from Programming International without any hitches. Delivered in about three weeks, as I recall (last December). Getting an update from them (they shipped 1.0 and had to get 1.1 from Mark of the Unicorn) took a little longer than it should have, but when I called to ask why they were helpful and did, in fact, get the update out to me in a couple of days. No complaints. scott preece ihnp4!uiucdcs!uicsl!preece
ABN.ISCAMS%usc-isid@sri-unix.UUCP (11/18/83)
One of the good guys: I ordered my Mannesman Tally printer through Computer Warehouse in Phoenix AZ. Good fast service (they had to order from Tally in Washington State). Tally didn't work. Sent it back to Computer Warehouse per Tally's directions. They sent it to Washington, back to them, back to me, in only a week or so! No delays, no hassle, no problems. Fast service; per the multitude of tickets on the case, the printer only sat in Phoenix for one day before being shipped on, both to and from me. My only order through them, but that was an OK experience. (Usual disclaimer: no, I don't work there, own them, isn't a commercial.) David Kirschbaum Toad Hall