mkelly@cs.uoregon.edu (Michael A. Kelly) (12/24/90)
Oh, sure, SADE can be powerful. But its interface is far too crude to be useful (to the beginner, at least). I've just been handed a project of immense proportions that more or less has to be written using MPW. Being used to working in the THINK C debugging environment, SADE came as quite a shock. I mean, here I have a development system that costs about twice as much as THINK, with a debugging interface about a quarter as user-friendly. Are there any debuggers out there with an interface similar to the THINK debugger? What do you all think about TMON or 'The Debugger', and how do they compare to SADE? Thanks in advance, Mike. -- Michael A. Kelly | "Fish heads, fish heads, Internet: mkelly@cs.uoregon.edu | Roly-poly fish heads, America Online: Michael792 | Fish heads, fish heads, Compu$erve: 73567,1651 | Eat them up, yum!" - Barnes & Barnes
peirce@outpost.UUCP (Michael Peirce) (12/24/90)
In article <1990Dec23.224128.12324@cs.uoregon.edu>, mkelly@cs.uoregon.edu (Michael A. Kelly) writes: > > Are there any debuggers out there with an interface similar to the THINK > debugger? What do you all think about TMON or 'The Debugger', and how do they > compare to SADE? I use Jasik's The Debugger when I use MPW. It's very powerfull, and arguably the best debugger available on the Mac. It makes use of the .SYM files produced by MPW for Sade's consumption, so going from Sade to Jasik should be fairly painless. Of course, there is a steep learning curve when you first use Jasik's Debugger. It helps (alot!) to have someone knowledgeable with it around to help, but the manual does have a fairly OK tutorial to get you started on your own. One other benefit (or downside to some people I suppose) of using Jasik's Debugger is that he updates it regularly. The current version works well with System 7 and he recently added "memory protection" where he detects if a given process is writing outside of where it should. I highly recommend Jasik's debugger to anyone who will listen :-) -- michael -- Michael Peirce -- {apple,decwrl}!claris!outpost!peirce -- Peirce Software -- Suite 301, 719 Hibiscus Place -- Macintosh Programming -- San Jose, California 95117 -- & Consulting -- (408) 244-6554, AppleLink: PEIRCE
daven@svc.portal.com (12/24/90)
In article <1990Dec23.224128.12324@cs.uoregon.edu> mkelly@cs.uoregon.edu (Michael A. Kelly) writes: > > Being used to working in the THINK C debugging environment, SADE came > as quite a shock. I mean, here I have a development system that costs > about twice as much as THINK, with a debugging interface about a quarter > as user-friendly. > > Are there any debuggers out there with an interface similar to the THINK > debugger? What do you all think about TMON or 'The Debugger', and how > do they compare to SADE? Other than the THINK Pascal and C debugging environments, SADE is as good as you're going to get as far as interfaces. TMON, TMON Pro, and Jasik's Debugger have far more user-hostile interfaces. Well, there is the MacApp debugger, which is probably in a class of it's own. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Newman | daven@svc.portal.com | AppleLink: D0025 Sofware Ventures Corp. | AOL: MicroPhone | CIS: 76004,2161 Berkeley, CA 94705 | WELL: tinman@well.sf.ca.us | (415) 644-3232
reich@well.sf.ca.us (Richard Reich) (12/26/90)
Have to disagree with daven at least about Jasik's. The interface is not well done, but it does TRY to be Mac-like. Taking the interface and the inherent power of the debugger into account, Jasik's is in a league all by itself. It is great. -r
das@Apple.COM (David Shayer) (12/29/90)
In article <1990Dec23.224128.12324@cs.uoregon.edu> mkelly@cs.uoregon.edu (Michael A. Kelly) writes: >Oh, sure, SADE can be powerful. But its interface is far too crude to be >useful (to the beginner, at least). I've just been handed a project of >immense proportions that more or less has to be written using MPW. Being used >to working in the THINK C debugging environment, SADE came as quite a shock. >I mean, here I have a development system that costs about twice as much as >THINK, with a debugging interface about a quarter as user-friendly. > >Are there any debuggers out there with an interface similar to the THINK >debugger? What do you all think about TMON or 'The Debugger', and how do they >compare to SADE? There is no other debugger that comes close to being as easy to use as the Think C/Pascal debuggers. If you're in MPW, you're just stuck. David
anderson@Apple.COM (Clark Anderson) (12/30/90)
From: das@Apple.COM (David Shayer): >There is no other debugger that comes close to being as easy to use >as the Think C/Pascal debuggers. If you're in MPW, you're just stuck. >David David: Stuck? He can use MacsBugs. Who could ask for anything more? ;) {For the humor-impaired....note the smiley} --clark ----------------------------------------------------------- Clark Anderson InterNet: anderson@apple.com Apple Computer, Inc AppleLink: C.ANDERSON BellNet: 408-974-4593 "I speak only for myself, much to my employers relief..." -----------------------------------------------------------
Rick.Parker@samba.acs.unc.edu (Rick Parker) (12/30/90)
I have not had the chance to use SADE....but I use TMON along with the Think C debugger...The TLC Debug is an excellent source debugger...but when I get to the down and dirty...I just interrupt my mac...(forget about the monitor crap)...and use TMON...By far TNON is the Best Debugger I have run across in a long time....but you got to be able to read assembly... Rick Parker.......I aint got no time for long goodbyes.....:)
ldg@yoda.byu.edu (12/30/90)
Some of the replies to this topic mention Jasik's 'The Debugger.' Is this
a source-level debugger? I program in Modula-2, not C, so my debugging
needs are well served by simple "what's in that variable" and "where am I"
information, which SADE does an admirable job of providing. But if there is
a better way (faster? easier?), then a lazy person like me wants to know
about it.
I really do like SADE, though.
Lyle D. Gunderson N6KSZ | "Any technology without | ldg@yoda.byu.edu
350 CB/BYU | some attendant risk of misuse | CIS: 73760,2354
Provo UT 84602 | is probably trivial" | GEnie: L.GUNDERSON
| --Louise Kohl | AOL: LGundersonwdh@well.sf.ca.us (Bill Hofmann) (12/30/90)
In article <47625@apple.Apple.COM> das@Apple.COM (David Shayer) writes: >There is no other debugger that comes close to being as easy to use >as the Think C/Pascal debuggers. If you're in MPW, you're just stuck. > >David True, to a point. If, and note that *is* a big if, you are willing to spend a day or two setting it up the first time, Jasik's Debugger is powerful and worthwhile. It works with THINK C application projects (reasonably well) and with MPW output (anything you can generate a .SYM file for) marvelously well. It provides both source and assembly debugging, useful for those of us who *still* can't write C code after 10 years (where *do* those parens go in "if (a&0x01 == 0)"), and allows you to look at your types and variables. It *is* a tool for the not-faint-of-heart, but I think it pays off in productivity in the long run. -Bill
Clark.Anderson@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Clark Anderson) (12/30/90)
Reply-To: anderson@Apple.COM From: das@Apple.COM (David Shayer): >There is no other debugger that comes close to being as easy to use >as the Think C/Pascal debuggers. If you're in MPW, you're just stuck. >David David: Stuck? He can use MacsBugs. Who could ask for anything more? ;) {For the humor-impaired....note the smiley} --clark ----------------------------------------------------------- Clark Anderson InterNet: anderson@apple.com Apple Computer, Inc AppleLink: C.ANDERSON BellNet: 408-974-4593 "I speak only for myself, much to my employers relief..." ----------------------------------------------------------- + Organization: Apple Computer Inc., Cupertino, CA -- Clark Anderson - via FidoNet node 1:105/14 UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!Clark.Anderson INTERNET: Clark.Anderson@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
Rick.Parker@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Rick Parker) (12/30/90)
Reply-To: Rick.Parker@samba.acs.unc.edu
I have not had the chance to use SADE....but I use TMON along with the
Think C debugger...The TLC Debug is an excellent source debugger...but
when I get to the down and dirty...I just interrupt my mac...(forget about
the monitor crap)...and use TMON...By far TNON is the Best Debugger I have
run across in a long time....but you got to be able to read assembly...
Rick Parker.......I aint got no time for long goodbyes.....:)
--
Rick Parker - via FidoNet node 1:105/14
UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!Rick.Parker
INTERNET: Rick.Parker@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORGldg@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (ldg) (12/30/90)
Reply-To: ldg@yoda.byu.edu
Some of the replies to this topic mention Jasik's 'The Debugger.' Is this
a source-level debugger? I program in Modula-2, not C, so my debugging
needs are well served by simple "what's in that variable" and "where am I"
information, which SADE does an admirable job of providing. But if there is
a better way (faster? easier?), then a lazy person like me wants to know
about it.
I really do like SADE, though.
Lyle D. Gunderson N6KSZ I "Any technology without I ldg@yoda.byu.edu
350 CB/BYU I some attendant risk of misuse I CIS: 73760,2354
Provo UT 84602 I is probably trivial" I GEnie: L.GUNDERSON
I --Louise Kohl I AOL: LGunderson
--
ldg - via FidoNet node 1:105/14
UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!ldg
INTERNET: ldg@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORGBill.Hofmann@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG (Bill Hofmann) (12/30/90)
Reply-To: wdh@well.sf.ca.us In article <47625@apple.Apple.COM> das@Apple.COM (David Shayer) writes: >There is no other debugger that comes close to being as easy to use >as the Think C/Pascal debuggers. If you're in MPW, you're just stuck. > >David True, to a point. If, and note that *is* a big if, you are willing to spend a day or two setting it up the first time, Jasik's Debugger is powerful and worthwhile. It works with THINK C application projects (reasonably well) and with MPW output (anything you can generate a .SYM file for) marvelously well. It provides both source and assembly debugging, useful for those of us who *still* can't write C code after 10 years (where *do* those parens go in "if (a&0x01 == 0)"), and allows you to look at your types and variables. It *is* a tool for the not-faint-of-heart, but I think it pays off in productivity in the long run. -Bill + Organization: Whole Earth 'Lectronic Link, Sausalito, CA -- Bill Hofmann - via FidoNet node 1:105/14 UUCP: ...!{uunet!glacier, ..reed.bitnet}!busker!226!20!Bill.Hofmann INTERNET: Bill.Hofmann@f20.n226.z1.FIDONET.ORG
peirce@outpost.UUCP (Michael Peirce) (12/31/90)
In article <2054@beguine.UUCP>, Rick.Parker@samba.acs.unc.edu (Rick Parker) writes: > > > I have not had the chance to use SADE....but I use TMON along with the > Think C debugger...The TLC Debug is an excellent source debugger...but > when I get to the down and dirty...I just interrupt my mac...(forget about > the monitor crap)...and use TMON...By far TNON is the Best Debugger I have > run across in a long time....but you got to be able to read assembly... TMON is getting a little long in the tooth. I had heard of a TMON Pro coming out last year, but I haven't seen it yet. Even the rumors have died down. I've pretty much dumped TMON for Jasik's debugger for low level stuff. Jasik's may not be 100% UI guideline approved, but it's light years closer than TMON is! -- michael -- Michael Peirce -- {apple,decwrl}!claris!outpost!peirce -- Peirce Software -- Suite 301, 719 Hibiscus Place -- Macintosh Programming -- San Jose, California 95117 -- & Consulting -- (408) 244-6554, AppleLink: PEIRCE
das@Apple.COM (David Shayer) (01/02/91)
In article <0B010004.w4spaz@outpost.UUCP> peirce@outpost.UUCP writes: > >In article <2054@beguine.UUCP>, Rick.Parker@samba.acs.unc.edu (Rick Parker) writes: >TMON is getting a little long in the tooth. I had heard of a TMON >Pro coming out last year, but I haven't seen it yet. Even the >rumors have died down. TMON Pro is on the way. I'm beta testing it, and its just amazing! Unfortunately, I signed a nondisclosure, so I can't go into details. But you WILL BE IMPRESSED when it comes out. Standard Disclaimer, I don't work for ICOM (the publisher), I just like their product. David
daven@svc.portal.com (01/05/91)
In article <0B010004.w4spaz@outpost.UUCP> peirce@outpost.UUCP writes: > >TMON is getting a little long in the tooth. I had heard of a TMON >Pro coming out last year, but I haven't seen it yet. Even the >rumors have died down. TMON Pro is still in beta test and looks quite good. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Newman | daven@svc.portal.com | AppleLink: D0025 Sofware Ventures Corp. | AOL: MicroPhone | CIS: 76004,2161 Berkeley, CA 94705 | WELL: tinman@well.sf.ca.us | (415) 644-3232
gtall@ogre.cica.indiana.edu (01/05/91)
TMON Pro is still in beta test? My latest copy of ComputerWare lists something called TMON Professional. I'd assume this is the same thing. Are they selling their beta release?