smedley@udel.edu (Trevor Smedley) (03/05/91)
Does anyone know of any application builders other than MacApp? I would like to get one to use for teaching a course on programming for a Macintosh. I expect the the MPW/MacApp combination may be too expensive. Also, I expect that a programming environment like ThinkC may be more suitable for undergraduates than MPW is. Thanks, Trevor Smedley smedley@udel.edu
boerned@mist.CS.ORST.EDU (Dan Boerner) (03/05/91)
Trevor, were your aware that you can use MacApp w/ Think Pascal 3.01? I'm just finishing T.A.'ing the second term of a two term software engineering course and we've used MacApp and Think Pascal as our framework. We've had great success and feel that it is important to expose our students to the current technology available in applicaton development. If you're interested in our experiences let me know. --- Dan Boerner Masters Student Oregon State University boerned@mist.cs.orst.edu
andrew@jhereg.osa.com (Andrew C. Esh) (03/05/91)
In article <46488@nigel.ee.udel.edu> smedley@udel.edu writes: >Does anyone know of any application builders other than MacApp? I would like >to get one to use for teaching a course on programming for a Macintosh. I >expect the the MPW/MacApp combination may be too expensive. Also, I expect >that a programming environment like ThinkC may be more suitable for >undergraduates than MPW is. > >Thanks, Trevor Smedley >smedley@udel.edu I am not posting to answer your question, but to raise a point about MPW vs Think-C. Anyone following up on my point should EDIT THE SUBJECT LINE. I have always valued learning any development or editing system that include some sort of programmability. Systems like Unix, Brief (a PC editor like Emacs that has a macro language buit in), and any development system that includes scripting. What systems like these taught me is that if there is something the devlopment system does not do, usually a script can be written to solve the problem. I learned self reliance, and never learned that I should expect the writers of the compiler to fix all the problems for me. My fondest memories of when I was learning to program was when I took the devlopment system and stretched it to solve new problems. One of the things I regret being exposed to early on was Pascal. It has restrictions built in which make it easy to learn, and keeps the student from getting into too much trouble. It also keeps the student from doing things that may need to be done. I like Pascal, but I would rather use C++, since I find fewer impediments. (Pascal hacks: Please don't flame; I'm using Pascal as an example of limitations, not comparing languages) Think-C has its place also. I use it to blast out small routines that I need in a hurry, and I know aren't going to stress the system. THen I usually port them to MPW and intergrate them with the huge projects I have going over there. It's a kind of Breadboard process. My point is that I think it is important for your students to learn self reliance, by first learning to work with a raw system that has few limitations rather than come to depend on a limited system which they will eventually outgrow. -- Andrew C. Esh andrew@osa.com Open Systems Architects, Inc. Minneapolis, MN 55416-1528 So much System, (612) 525-0000 so little CPU time...
Jim.Spencer@p510.f22.n282.z1.mmug.edgar.mn.org.org (Jim Spencer) (03/06/91)
Trevor Smedley writes in a message to All TS> Does anyone know of any application builders other than MacApp? TS> I would like to get one to use for teaching a course on programming TS> for a Macintosh. I expect the the MPW/MacApp combination may TS> be too expensive. Also, I expect that a programming environment TS> like ThinkC may be more suitable for undergraduates than MPW TS> is. First of all, MacApp is not an "application builder" as I think you mean it. Rather it is an object oriented application framework. Unless you plan to teach OOPs along with Mac programming it would not be of much help. If on the other hand you plan to include an object framework on your class, you could do one of two things. First you could use MacApp along with Think Pascal (unfortunately, Think C can not work with the MacApp library.) Alternatively, both Think C and Think Pascal come complete with their own class library/application framework, the Think Class Library or TCL. Particularly for a class environment, this would probably serve most of your needs at the least possible cost and withe least amount of time sp ent learning the environment.