rcook@eagle.wesleyan.edu (05/27/91)
Here's the story:
I have written a game for the Macintosh which a lot of people feel is good
enough to be published. Not knowing much about the software industry beyond
programming, I am asking all you Mac programmers out there what you know about
getting your code published.
I assume that you get in contact with a publisher and give them a demo disk
along with some information, but how do you keep them from stealing your demo
disk and publishing that? Do you cripple the software in some way? Is there
some special legal phrase that will prevent them from cheating me? How do you
approach a publisher with a potential new product? by mail, phone, or in
person?
Once they decide to publish your code, how do you get paid? Do you sell your
program outright to them, or do you get royalties? What kind of prices and
percentages should I expect? Do you retain control over the changes that can
be made to the program? for how long? Do you _want_ to keep control of the
program? Which publishers are good and which are bad? How many lawyers will I
need? :-)
Over the last few years I have asked several questions on this newsgroup, and
have always received helpful replies. This is in some ways the most important
question I have asked, since I will no longer be dealing Toolbox traps and
unlocked handles but with real people. Please tell me what you can.
Much thanks in advance,
Randall Cook.
--
------------------------
Randall Cook "That's the trouble with being middle class.
rcook@eagle.wesleyan.edu Anybody that really cares will abandon you
------------------------ for someone that needs it more." -- Sam Eticd88-jwa@alv.nada.kth.se (Jon W{tte) (05/28/91)
> rcook@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes:
I assume that you get in contact with a publisher and give them a demo disk
along with some information, but how do you keep them from stealing your
demo disk and publishing that? Do you cripple the software in some way?
You could send them a video tape of the game in action, this will
a) prevent them from stealing code and b) show all the good stuff while
avoiding the known bugs :-)
Once they decide to publish your code, how do you get paid? Do you sell
your program outright to them, or do you get royalties? What kind of
prices and percentages should I expect? Do you retain control over the
Whatever you manage to get. It's an open negotiation - a matter of how
much you believe in the product, and how much the company believes in
it. I'd go for a large clump sum, that be it, I'm available for consultancy
at an hourly rate. 8btw. the clump sum should probably lie around
$50/hr you spent making the game - if you get still more, very good ! I
doubt they'll be willing to pay that, though...)
--
Jon W{tte
h+@nada.kth.se
- Speed !omh@cs.brown.edu (Owen M. Hartnett) (05/28/91)
Although I don't know the original poster's location, on June 5 the Boston Computer Society's MacTechGrp is having a meeting on publishing your own software/starting your own software business which might be of interest to others intending to trek down this road of glory. Meeting is at 7:00 in building E51, MIT Sloan School, Room 302. You don't have to be a BCS member to attend a meeting, but you are supposed to become one if you attend more than once. I'm the group's director, and we envision having about 3 or 4 local people who have done this form a panel arrangement, tell a few "hints & kinks" about launching a business, and answer questions from the audience. -Owen Owen Hartnett omh@cs.brown.edu "FAITH, n. Belief without evidence in what is told by one who speaks without knowledge, of things without parallel." -Ambrose Bierce - The Devil's Dictionary
jmunkki@hila.hut.fi (Juri Munkki) (05/28/91)
In article <1991May27.113111.43309@eagle.wesleyan.edu> rcook@eagle.wesleyan.edu writes: >I have written a game for the Macintosh which a lot of people feel is good >enough to be published. Not knowing much about the software industry beyond >programming, I am asking all you Mac programmers out there what you know about >getting your code published. My guess is that a Mac game is one of the hardest ones to get published. At least I get this feeling from trying to contact publishers about STORM. We received no reply to our telefax and only a mail address in response to an applelink message. At least it seems these things take time. If it is at all possible, go to the publishers. Call them, make an appointment with the right person and show them your product. This way you have a chance to show what you have and you know that they have looked at your product. You may also get useful feedback from them, even if they are not interested in your product. We're thinking of releasing a demo STORM. I think the Oids demo pretty much got the demo concept right. There's no way that I would want to actually play the demo version, but I got a good feeling of what the game looks like and what it feels like to play. I have to admit that STORM is a particularly hard case, because of certain license problems that would have to be solved. Then again, we've clearly stated that Amiga and PC versions would be easy to produce, so I think that that should have generated some interest. It's very hard to make money from Mac games. ____________________________________________________________________________ / Juri Munkki / Helsinki University of Technology / Wind / Project / / jmunkki@hut.fi / Computing Center Macintosh Support / Surf / STORM / ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
stuart1@pro-sol.cts.com (Stuart Schechter) (05/28/91)
In-Reply-To: message from rcook@eagle.wesleyan.edu First of all, you should copyright your work. Though no longer required, it's still a good idea to put a copyright notice on the source and have it appear in the opening screen of the executable as well, reading something like this: Copyright 1991 (Name). All Rights Reserved. The All Rights Reserved protects you under the Berne and Pan-American Copyright conventions for European and Latin American distribution, respectively. You should also file a copy of the source and executable with the Library of Congress and obtain an official copyright registration number. The cost for this is around $40 and the forms may be obtained from your local Government Information Center (see the U. S. Government listing in your phone book for the phone number). This further protects your rights. You should also protect any documentation files in a similar manner, whether printed or on disk. Assuming you've done all this, you still cannot copyright an idea. You can patent a process, but whether your game is that unique is clearly an open question that might take years to resolve. Instead of that, consider having an attorney draft a form Secrecy Agreement. The items to be protected can be more fully described on an attached Schedule to the agreement. Have the company (or anyone else) sign the agreement before you let them look at the software. The agreement can provide appropriate damages for theft of your creation, as well as attorneys' fees, and perhaps a clause for binding arbitration so the whole thing won't be tied up in the courts for years. Nope, I'm not a professional software developer, though I have written a few programs (nothing major). How do I know this stuff? I'm a business attorney and I hate to see entrepreneurs get hurt, which can easily happen. Hope some of the above information is of help. Cordially..................Stuart Schechter
CAH0@bunny.gte.com (Chuck Hoffman) (05/31/91)
In article <1991May28.105610.29170@crash.cts.com> stuart1@pro-sol.cts.com (Stuart Schechter) writes: > You should also file a copy of the source and executable > with the Library of Congress and obtain an official copyright registration > number. The cost for this is around $40 and the forms may be obtained from > your local Government Information Center (see the U. S. Government listing > in your phone book for the phone number). I've copyrighted several things. The cost is $10 if you copyright the source as "text" (form TX). You can get the forms by calling a recording at the Library of Congress in Washington. Call directory assistance for that area code to get the number. You do need to send in TWO copies of your source, showing at least the first 50 and last 50 pages (the old, pre-Berne documentation says one). If you want to copyright the outward appearance, such as screen / window formats, you copyright them separately as if they were "works of art," (form PA - I think). The forms, by the way, are *NOT* copyrighted. If you get one copy, it's okay with the Library of Congress if you make other copies, as long as you follow their format of printing on both sides, with the top of one side meeting the bottom of the other. Software is protected in the U.S. by a hodgepodge of overlapping copyright, patent, and trade secret laws. They aren't necessarily mutually supportive. For example, when you file a copyright you lose trade secret protection. A good book is "Legal Care for your Software" published by Nolo Press, Berkeley, CA. It also tells you how to fill out the form, which can be ambiguous and confusing. The authority of the U.S. Congress to protect new invention is written right into the Constitution of the U.S. No wonder. Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin were both inventors! Copyright registrations are cheap, mostly do-it-yourself, and you get them quickly. Patents are expensive, absolutely require an expert (attorney), and can take a couple of years. (My dad has patents.) If you have shown something in a newsletter, or in a talk or presentation, or have just showed off copies of it to some other people, before you declare your copyright (by putting the copyright notice in), you will *NOT* have a valid copyright claim later. Put the copyright notice in when you first write the code. Put the copyright notice in a place obviously visible to the users. I use both the "vers" resource, and the "Owner Resource" to declare my copyright. In my "About" dialog, I go get the "vers" resource and put it into the dialog as a user item. I also have a source text string with the copyright. It can be read from the source, and it appears in the CODE resource. The word "Copyright" and the copyright symbol ")" are both okay to use. The typed characters "(c)" used to be okay, but not since the Berne convention. When you make upgrades to your software, upgrade your copyright registration by filing again (I keep copies of blank forms). It will cost you another $10, but your original copyright does *NOT* protect any non-trivial upgrades. For programmers, I recommend that for any significant legal work, use the services of a professional attorney. (And for attorneys, I recommend that for any significant programming work, use the services of a professional programmer.) Chuck Hoffman, GTE Laboratories, Inc. | I'm not sure why we're here, cah0@bunny.gte.com | but I am sure that while we're Telephone (U.S.A.) 617-466-2131 | here, we're supposed to help GTE VoiceNet: 679-2131 | each other. GTE Telemail: C.HOFFMAN |
lim@iris.ucdavis.edu (Lloyd Lim) (05/31/91)
In article <11293@bunny.GTE.COM> CAH0@bunny.gte.com (Chuck Hoffman) writes: >In article <1991May28.105610.29170@crash.cts.com> stuart1@pro-sol.cts.com >(Stuart Schechter) writes: >> number. The cost for this is around $40 and the forms may be obtained > >... The cost is $10 if you copyright the >source as "text" (form TX). You can get the forms by calling a recording >at the Library of Congress in Washington. Call directory assistance for >that area code to get the number. You do need to send in TWO copies of >your source, showing at least the first 50 and last 50 pages... It's 50 pages total, the first and last 25. First and last can mean almost anything when you have separate source code files so you have quite a bit of leeway in choosing what you want to give them. Also, if you ask for "special relief" you can routinely get away with the first and last 10 pages for a total of 20. There are other options too. For source code, you only need to send in ONE copy. >Software is protected in the U.S. by a hodgepodge of overlapping >copyright, patent, and trade secret laws. They aren't necessarily >mutually supportive. For example, when you file a copyright you lose >trade secret protection. A good book is "Legal Care for your >Software" published by Nolo Press, Berkeley, CA. It also tells you >how to fill out the form, which can be ambiguous and confusing. Yes, a good book, now in 3rd edition. Nolo Press has an excellent program where you can recycle out-of-date books and get 25% off. You can copyright something and still have it be a trade secret but it's tricky. >If you have shown something in a newsletter, or in a talk or presentation, >or have just showed off copies of it to some other people, before you >declare your copyright (by putting the copyright notice in), you will *NOT* >have a valid copyright claim later. Put the copyright notice in when >you first write the code. This is not true. In all countries in the Berne Convention (U.S. and probably every country on the net), no copyright notice is required. Copyright protection is automatic from the time of creation. But it's a good idea to always put a notice in to avoid confusion and hassles. A notice also gives you a stronger position if there's trouble. >The word "Copyright" and the copyright symbol ")" are both okay... ^^^ You know what he means, option-g. >For programmers, I recommend that for any significant legal work, use the >services of a professional attorney. (And for attorneys, I recommend that >for any significant programming work, use the services of a professional >programmer.) I'd also recommend trying to find one that is familiar with computer law. It's getting really complex these days and you can't expect just any lawyer to know what's going on. +++ Lloyd Lim Internet: lim@iris.eecs.ucdavis.edu America Online: LimUnltd Compuserve: 72647,660 US Mail: 215 Lysle Leach Hall, U.C. Davis, Davis, CA 95616
d88-jwa@alv.nada.kth.se (Jon W{tte) (05/31/91)
.ucdavis.edu (Lloyd Lim) writes: >The word "Copyright" and the copyright symbol ")" are both okay... You know what he means, option-g. Option-g ? A gamma sign ? Why ? I thought it was the copyright symbol that's at option-1. Moral: NEVER assume anything about even slightly foreign keyboards. -- Jon W{tte h+@nada.kth.se - Speed !