johnston@minnie.me.udel.edu (06/09/91)
In a recent comp.sys.mac.announce'ment, Symantec describes a new hypertext-like guide to volumes 1-5 of Inside Macintosh. Among many nice features is the ability to cut and paste code examples. Has anyone seen this yet? Opinions? List price was given as $99. -- Bill (johnston@minnie.me.udel.edu)
peterc@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter Creath) (06/10/91)
Think Reference is pretty nice. Although, it only lets you paste the _prototype_ - not the whole code example. I wish they'd let you copy & paste (sans formatting) like Inside Mac DA did. But now on to more fun. In my quest to make Popup menus in fonts other than Chicago 12, I wrote a simple MenuProc and hooked up to it in the manner prescribed by Think Ref. When I didn't alter the MenuProc, I could define multiple menus handling the same MENU resource, but now it crashes on "_HClrRBit". Here's the code, can anybody help? menu=GetMenu(menuID); InsertMenu(menu,-1); DItem=NewHandle(6); /* allocate 6 bytes */ intPtr=(short *)*DItem; /* address those bytes */ *intPtr++=0x4EF9; /* a JMP instruction */ *intPtr++=HiWord(ZingerProc); /* where to jump */ *intPtr=LoWord(ZingerProc); (*menu)->menuProc=DItem; /* attach to MenuInfo */ DItem is a handle, menu is a MenuHandle, *intPtr is short, and ZingerProc is a pascal void procedure. PLEASE respond in E-mail, my news system doesn't allow threading... peterc@sugar.neosoft.com "Listen, there's a hell of a good peterc@sugar.hackercorp.com universe next door. Let's go!" (take your pick) -e e cummings p.s. When I'm done, I'm going to post the source for my popup handler as freeware. --
keith@Apple.COM (Keith Rollin) (06/10/91)
In article <55825@nigel.ee.udel.edu> johnston@minnie.me.udel.edu writes: >In a recent comp.sys.mac.announce'ment, Symantec describes a new >hypertext-like guide to volumes 1-5 of Inside Macintosh. Among >many nice features is the ability to cut and paste code examples. > >Has anyone seen this yet? Opinions? List price was given as $99. I had the pleasure of seeing while it was beta tested. I feel that it has some good and bad aspects. The neatest thing about it is that it's practically a rewrite of I.M. They couldn't do what Apple did with SpInside Mac and simply dump the I.M. text into a HyperCard stack; they had to start from scratch. Learning from some mistakes I.M. made, and incorporating 8 years of programming experience, they loaded the THINK Reference with lots of "lore" and "tips" that you can't find elsewhere. Also, it's very fast, especially considering that their database is over 2 Meg -- and compacted at that! The hyperlinks make cross- searching easy. However, there are two drawbacks. First, the interface is a little goofy. I'm used to the simplicity of MPW's 411 or the Online Companion. The THINK Reference has several different modes you have to go into depending on the type of information you want. As another example of goofiness, they use Cmd-Z for "Go Back"! Second, after 1/2 hour of reviewing, I jotted down over two pages of inaccuracies, out-dated information, and missing information. I told Symantec about them, and I hope they got fixed in the final version, but I only browsed through about 1% of the database. I don't know what the quality of the final version is. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Keith Rollin --- Apple Computer, Inc. INTERNET: keith@apple.com UUCP: {decwrl, hoptoad, nsc, sun, amdahl}!apple!keith "But where the senses fail us, reason must step in." - Galileo
ksand@Apple.COM (Kent Sandvik, 120dB or more) (06/10/91)
In article <53813@apple.Apple.COM> keith@Apple.COM (Keith Rollin) writes: >In article <55825@nigel.ee.udel.edu> johnston@minnie.me.udel.edu writes: >>In a recent comp.sys.mac.announce'ment, Symantec describes a new >>hypertext-like guide to volumes 1-5 of Inside Macintosh. Among >>many nice features is the ability to cut and paste code examples. >>Has anyone seen this yet? Opinions? List price was given as $99. >I had the pleasure of seeing while it was beta tested >has some good and bad aspects. >Also, it's very fast, especially considering that their database is >over 2 Meg -- and compacted at that! The hyperlinks make cross- >searching easy. I'm using the same beta copy just now on this portable 2Mb Mac, and it feels wonderful to have an on-line system as well as Think C working on a 2Mb Macintosh. As Keith stated, the beta release contained some errors and other glitches, but the product seems to target the market that can't run MPW/411 and other huge development environments on their systems. I also liked their incremental-search functionality - those who have used GNU emacs know what I'm talking about. But why did they not allow copy/paste of the example code; for instance the Gestalt call example is good, but it does not make sense to retype examples? Anyway, I have not seen the final version, so this could have changed. Kent PS: Book(s) of the week: "Big Secrets" and "Bigger Secrets" by Poundstone. -- Kent Sandvik, DTS Rock Lobster Disclaimer: I am not working with Public Relations.
Lawson.English@p88.f15.n300.z1.fidonet.org (Lawson English) (06/11/91)
johnston@minnie.me.udel.edu writes in a message to All
J> n a recent comp.sys.mac.announce'ment, Symantec describes a new
J> hypertext-like guide to volumes 1-5 of Inside Macintosh. Among
J> many nice features is the ability to cut and paste code examples.
J>
J> Has anyone seen this yet? Opinions? List price was given as $99.
I was disappointed that it didn't seem to give TCL format help...
I also got a flyer for $59 as a special offer. Have you sent in your registration
card? Seemed to be a generic offer to all Think C/Pascal users.
Lawson
--
Uucp: ...{gatech,ames,rutgers}!ncar!asuvax!stjhmc!300!15.88!Lawson.English
Internet: Lawson.English@p88.f15.n300.z1.fidonet.orgjohnston@minnie.me.udel.edu (06/13/91)
In article <13759.28567934@stjhmc.fidonet.org>, Lawson.English@p88.f15.n300.z1.fidonet.org (Lawson English) writes... >johnston@minnie.me.udel.edu writes in a message to All > >J> n a recent comp.sys.mac.announce'ment, Symantec describes a new >J> hypertext-like guide to volumes 1-5 of Inside Macintosh. Among >J> many nice features is the ability to cut and paste code examples. >J> >J> Has anyone seen this yet? Opinions? List price was given as $99. > >I was disappointed that it didn't seem to give TCL format help... > >I also got a flyer for $59 as a special offer. Have you sent in your >registration card? Seemed to be a generic offer to all Think C/Pascal users. I did get a flyer in the mail announcing Think Reference, but at it's $99 price -- no reference to a special offer. The number on the envelope doesn't seem to relate to my Think C or Pascal registration #'s, although it might have come by virtue of my Norton Utils registration. I called Symantec Customer Service and they had not heard of a $59 offer being made to any Symantec customers. Can anyone confirm? It sounds like a useful thing to have even at $99, but $59 is better. -- Bill (johnston@minnie.me.udel.edu)
jyp@wucs1.wustl.edu (Jerome Yvon Plun) (06/13/91)
In article <56235@nigel.ee.udel.edu> johnston@minnie.me.udel.edu writes: >In article <13759.28567934@stjhmc.fidonet.org>, Lawson.English@p88.f15.n300.z1.fidonet.org (Lawson English) writes... >>johnston@minnie.me.udel.edu writes in a message to All >> >>J> n a recent comp.sys.mac.announce'ment, Symantec describes a new >>J> hypertext-like guide to volumes 1-5 of Inside Macintosh. Among >>J> many nice features is the ability to cut and paste code examples. >>J> >>J> Has anyone seen this yet? Opinions? List price was given as $99. >> >>I was disappointed that it didn't seem to give TCL format help... >> >>I also got a flyer for $59 as a special offer. Have you sent in your >>registration card? Seemed to be a generic offer to all Think C/Pascal users. > >I did get a flyer in the mail announcing Think Reference, but at it's >$99 price -- no reference to a special offer. The number on the envelope >doesn't seem to relate to my Think C or Pascal registration #'s, although >it might have come by virtue of my Norton Utils registration. > >I called Symantec Customer Service and they had not heard of a $59 >offer being made to any Symantec customers. Can anyone confirm? >It sounds like a useful thing to have even at $99, but $59 is better. > >-- Bill (johnston@minnie.me.udel.edu) Indeed, there is such a flyer. We got it a few days ago. It was included in a pamphlet about development tools (such as Resourcerer, Mac programming books, etc). And the price for Think Reference was $59. Side Note: The current version of Think Reference (according to the flyer) contains only the prototypes corresponding to IM volumes I to V. Is volume VI going to be included soon or is it possible to add prototypes to the reference ourselves? jerome Jerome Plun [] Is it a crime to want something else? jyp@wucs1.wustl.edu [] Is it a crime to believe in something different? Washington University [] St Louis, MO [] "Smalltown England", New Model Army, Vengeance
johnston@minnie.me.udel.edu (06/13/91)
In article <56235@nigel.ee.udel.edu>, johnston@minnie.me.udel.edu writes... >In article <13759.28567934@stjhmc.fidonet.org>, Lawson.English@p88.f15.n300.z1.fidonet.org (Lawson English) writes... >>I also got a flyer for $59 as a special offer. Have you sent in your >>registration card? Seemed to be a generic offer to all Think C/Pascal users. > >I called Symantec Customer Service and they had not heard of a $59 >offer being made to any Symantec customers. Can anyone confirm? >It sounds like a useful thing to have even at $99, but $59 is better. Yes, Virginia. There is a $59 upgrade offer. Not through Symantec though. The special offer reads as follows: "Best of all, as a THINK customer you can get THINK Reference for just $59 from MacConnection...1-800-334-4444 ask for #9957. Now I _am_ a registered user, but I noticed that I wasn't asked for any proof of that when I placed the order. Think Reference is back-ordered; they quoted delivery in about 10 days. Thanks to David Palmer and others who wrote to confirm the offer. -- Bill (johnston@minnie.me.udel.edu)
seiffert@bronze.ucs.indiana.edu (06/14/91)
>I did get a flyer in the mail announcing Think Reference, but at it's >$99 price -- no reference to a special offer. The number on the envelope >doesn't seem to relate to my Think C or Pascal registration #'s, although >it might have come by virtue of my Norton Utils registration. > >I called Symantec Customer Service and they had not heard of a $59 >offer being made to any Symantec customers. Can anyone confirm? >It sounds like a useful thing to have even at $99, but $59 is better. > >-- Bill (johnston@minnie.me.udel.edu) > I recieved a flier from Symantec for a special offer, $59, through MacConnection for Think Reference. I do own a copy of Think C. Kurt A. Seiffert LAN Specialist Indiana University, Bloomington IN
Randomizer@cup.portal.com (Aron Fingers Nelson) (06/17/91)
Among
>>J> many nice features is the ability to cut and paste code examples.
Hmmm.... Just a little note for UseNet readers. I ordered my copy of
the reference right away and just got this thing. As far as I know
(I *did* read the manual), you cannot cut and paste code examples.
You can copy and paste "templates" which are the function plus some
i.e. iErr = FSRead( fRefNum, &inOutCount, bufPtr );
You cannot however copy the excellent examples in the reference.
If someone realizes that it can be done, please correct me. I'd love
to be wrong on this.
Aron_Nelson@cup.portal.comgot@xanthus (Gordon Tillman) (06/18/91)
In article <56235@nigel.ee.udel.edu> johnston@minnie.me.udel.edu writes: > >I called Symantec Customer Service and they had not heard of a $59 >offer being made to any Symantec customers. Can anyone confirm? >It sounds like a useful thing to have even at $99, but $59 is better. > >-- Bill (johnston@minnie.me.udel.edu) Hi Bill, The $59.00 offer is through MacConnection. Call 1-800-334-4444 and ask for product #9957. B.T.W., they are on backorder right now. Gordon -- Gordon Tillman got@shell.com Operational Programming - Geophysical Shell Oil Co.
ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) (06/18/91)
Can someone who has purchased this product tell us how it differs from SpInside Macintosh and Friends? Presumeably the interface is different, although the material seems to be the same. What are the advantages/ disadvantages? Is it worth spending $59 for the Think Reference if you already get the Develop CDs?
thein@ada.seas.ucla.edu (Hla Tun "Tim" Thein) (06/19/91)
I just got my copy of THINK Reference and I think I found a bug. As an amatuer macintosh programmer, I think it's great except for the bug. There are two instances where pictures do not show up where there suppose to be. This is evident in the Standard Cursors page and the Window Types page. I would like to tell the technical support people about this, but I don't know their internet address. Does anyone know their internet address? How would I get in contact with people who developed THINK C, Pascal, and Reference through the internet? If anyone out there knows, please send me mail since I don't read this newgroup frequently although I should. Thanks. -- Hla Tun "Tim" Thein ......__ __ _____ _____ Vice President (thein@boole.seas.ucla.edu) ////// /_/ //_ _//_ _/ Computer Science Undergraduate Association ///// __ / / / / / University of California, Los Angeles ////_/ /_/o /_/o /_/o
peterc@sugar.hackercorp.com (Peter Creath) (06/20/91)
What version are you using? My pictures seem to be just fine... --
Edward.Rice@p4214.f421.n109.z1.FidoNet.Org (Edward Rice) (06/20/91)
EV> Can someone who has purchased this product tell us how it differs from EV> SpInside Macintosh and Friends? Presumeably the interface is different, EV> although the material seems to be the same. What are the advantages/ EV> disadvantages? Is it worth spending $59 for the Think Reference if EV> you already get the Develop CDs? And, if I may add to your question... since "Think Reference" takes care of IM 1-5, is there any indication of where Symantec is headed vis-a-vis updates? Freebies, cheapies, high cost -- or NO upgrades?? * Origin: "It's still in beta testing," Tom said Pointedly. (1:109/421.4214)
samalone@athena.mit.edu (Stuart A. Malone) (06/20/91)
In article <677368834.1@blkcat.FidoNet> Edward Rice writes: > And, if I may add to your question... since "Think Reference" takes care of > IM 1-5, is there any indication of where Symantec is headed vis-a-vis > updates? Freebies, cheapies, high cost -- or NO upgrades?? I called Symantec technical support yesterday and got the following information: 1) The information in THINK Reference is _not_ customizable. You can neither create new entries in the database, nor annotate existing entries. You can, however, create "bookmarks" to mark entries you use often. 2) Because the product is "so new" there is no official upgrade policy for the product yet. Technical support suggested that customers could look to Symantec's upgrade policies for THINK C and THINK Pascal for an indication of what was likely, though he made no promises. (For THINK C and THINK Pascal, bug fixes and upgrades for compatibility with new machines and system software have been distributed free through user groups and bulletin boards. Major releases with new features have cost in the neighborhood of 1/3 to 1/4 of retail price for registered users.) 3) Technical support has absolutely no comment on the future inclusion of Inside Macintosh VI. They would not even state Symantec's intentions, let alone give a date. ========== Objective facts end ========== Subjective opinion begins ========== Personally, I would guess that the future of THINK Reference will be very dependent on sales and user comments. If it sells well, there will be upgrades and -- eventually -- Inside Macintosh VI. If it sells poorly, it may be quietly retired. (Anyone remember HFS Navigator?) Although I understand Symantec's reluctance to commit itself to upgrades before it's even seen how the product sells, I was too disappointed in the answers I got from technical support to buy the product yet. The main issue for me was the lack of customizability. I use Addison-Wesley's Programmer's Online Companion, and have customized it extensively to include information about HyperCard and SuperCard XCMDs and my own library routines. If THINK Reference were customizable, not only could I add this information, but I wouldn't worry so much about their upgrade policy since I would be able to fix mistakes and add portions of Inside Mac VI myself. But with a static product, I'm dependent on Symantec for upgrades, and so far they've not promised any. I have another couple of small reservations: The brochure I received doesn't contain any screen shots or concrete descriptions of what the user interface is like, so it's hard to imagine how the information is organized and what using the program would be like. (Can someone who's used the product describe it in more detail?) I'm also disturbed by reports on the net that you can't copy the sample code, you have to retype it! I am very interested in this product, and would like to see it succeed. I think that the MacConnection price of $59 is quite reasonable, and would be willing to pay the full $99 list price _if_ I had some assurance that this isn't a dead end. --Stuart A. Malone samalone@athena.mit.edu
rae@alias.com (Reid Ellis) (06/21/91)
... it sounds a lot like MPW 411. Reid -- Reid Ellis rae@utcs.toronto.edu || rae@alias.com CDA0610@applelink.apple.com || +1 416 362 9181 [work]
ksand@apple.com (Kent Sandvik) (06/23/91)
In article <1991Jun21.042953.16339@alias.com>, rae@alias.com (Reid Ellis) writes: > > ... it sounds a lot like MPW 411. > But you get graphics! Kent